HKS Twin Pak Ignition
01-18-04, 01:39 AM
#27
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Originally posted by SleepR1
It's a problem @ high boost levels with rich AFRs...If you're running stock boost with few mods, then an ignition amp isn't needed...
It's a problem @ high boost levels with rich AFRs...If you're running stock boost with few mods, then an ignition amp isn't needed...
01-18-04, 02:16 AM
#28
Really, I think the point here is that if your are running stock boost then the ignition amp isn't going to do you much good except for maybe a little smoother response, but if you are running anything over stock boost, like 14 and up, the HKS will help in the upper mid to high range.
Frank
Frank
01-19-04, 08:27 AM
#29
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Originally posted by Flyrx7
Really, I think the point here is that if your are running stock boost then the ignition amp isn't going to do you much good except for maybe a little smoother response, but if you are running anything over stock boost, like 14 and up, the HKS will help in the upper mid to high range.
Frank
Really, I think the point here is that if your are running stock boost then the ignition amp isn't going to do you much good except for maybe a little smoother response, but if you are running anything over stock boost, like 14 and up, the HKS will help in the upper mid to high range.
Frank
01-21-04, 09:48 AM
#30
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i can host the dyno charts. email them to transcr.03@ipacc.com.
Has anybody installed a Twin Power on an FC?
Has anybody installed a Twin Power on an FC?
01-21-04, 03:23 PM
#31
Senior Member
I have an HKS but took it off after I had a serious grounding wire install. That ignition has too much a$$ when combined with a serious ground kit. That HKS was sooo strong it fried by Iridium plugs & destroyed the MSD ignition wires I had (Geezus its strong!). I had 5k miles on my plugs so when that HKS got hooked up, it fried the plugs & wires (it amplifies ANY weakness in the electrical system & smokes it dead).
I'd recommend getting one or the other (Ignition amp or the Ground Kit, but not both
If anyone wants mine, its brand new, 22 miles on it. I bought it for $465 & am selling for $350. It was just an overkill in my case.
PS - I've get every bolt on for my CYM & am running 15# of boost (about 380 RWHP).
See ya,
-Matt
'88 Turbo II
'93 CYM
I'd recommend getting one or the other (Ignition amp or the Ground Kit, but not both
If anyone wants mine, its brand new, 22 miles on it. I bought it for $465 & am selling for $350. It was just an overkill in my case.
PS - I've get every bolt on for my CYM & am running 15# of boost (about 380 RWHP).
See ya,
-Matt
'88 Turbo II
'93 CYM
01-21-04, 03:41 PM
#32
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
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I dont see why everyone wants a HKS twin power. Is it just cause its HKS? I run a MSD ignition amp on my leading and it works awsome. As a matter of fact when I very first went to tune my car I had a/f ratio's down into the 8's with no breakup. Steve Kan has made upward of 600rwhp with a single MSD amp on the leading coils (he was running T2 leading coils) and thats it. You can buy a MSD for $120 brand new.
The only think about the HKS is a amps the trailing, however thats a waist unless your running TONS of boost......As in way over 20psi.
I'd buy a MSD 6a for the leading and use the other $350 for something else like a bad *** fuel pump or something like that.
STEPHEN
The only think about the HKS is a amps the trailing, however thats a waist unless your running TONS of boost......As in way over 20psi.
I'd buy a MSD 6a for the leading and use the other $350 for something else like a bad *** fuel pump or something like that.
STEPHEN
01-21-04, 04:51 PM
#36
Originally posted by AgentSpeed
Does anyone have a pic of where they mounted the HKS?
Does anyone have a pic of where they mounted the HKS?
Frank
01-21-04, 07:25 PM
#38
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If anyone is interested in a cheaper prewired ignition amp I am selling one at:
https://www.rx7club.com//showthread....hreadid=262396
Thanks, sorry to interrupt
https://www.rx7club.com//showthread....hreadid=262396
Thanks, sorry to interrupt
01-21-04, 07:44 PM
#39
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
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Both the HKS and MSD connect into the harness right before the coils. The differnce is the HKS has a connector that just snaps in and makes the install take about 5 minutes. The MSD doesnt have the connector so you have to splice it in.....or actually krip on some connectors to the factory harness and the MSD harness then connect them together. It took me about 30 or so minutes to install the MSD. I'd gladly put up with a 30 minute install to save $350.
You can buy a MSD 6a from just about anywhere. JEGS, Summit, ebay, ect ect ect
STEPHEN
You can buy a MSD 6a from just about anywhere. JEGS, Summit, ebay, ect ect ect
STEPHEN
01-22-04, 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by Yellow R1
I have an HKS but took it off after I had a serious grounding wire install. That ignition has too much a$$ when combined with a serious ground kit. That HKS was sooo strong it fried by Iridium plugs & destroyed the MSD ignition wires I had (Geezus its strong!). I had 5k miles on my plugs so when that HKS got hooked up, it fried the plugs & wires (it amplifies ANY weakness in the electrical system & smokes it dead).
I'd recommend getting one or the other (Ignition amp or the Ground Kit, but not both
If anyone wants mine, its brand new, 22 miles on it. I bought it for $465 & am selling for $350. It was just an overkill in my case.
PS - I've get every bolt on for my CYM & am running 15# of boost (about 380 RWHP).
See ya,
-Matt
'88 Turbo II
'93 CYM
I have an HKS but took it off after I had a serious grounding wire install. That ignition has too much a$$ when combined with a serious ground kit. That HKS was sooo strong it fried by Iridium plugs & destroyed the MSD ignition wires I had (Geezus its strong!). I had 5k miles on my plugs so when that HKS got hooked up, it fried the plugs & wires (it amplifies ANY weakness in the electrical system & smokes it dead).
I'd recommend getting one or the other (Ignition amp or the Ground Kit, but not both
If anyone wants mine, its brand new, 22 miles on it. I bought it for $465 & am selling for $350. It was just an overkill in my case.
PS - I've get every bolt on for my CYM & am running 15# of boost (about 380 RWHP).
See ya,
-Matt
'88 Turbo II
'93 CYM
P.S. where are the location pic's on your cars for the HKS and MSD's?
Let's go, let's go let's go!!!
01-28-04, 11:14 PM
#44
Rebreaking things
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Originally posted by Yellow R1
I have an HKS but took it off after I had a serious grounding wire install. That ignition has too much a$$ when combined with a serious ground kit. That HKS was sooo strong it fried by Iridium plugs & destroyed the MSD ignition wires I had (Geezus its strong!). I had 5k miles on my plugs so when that HKS got hooked up, it fried the plugs & wires (it amplifies ANY weakness in the electrical system & smokes it dead).
I'd recommend getting one or the other (Ignition amp or the Ground Kit, but not both
If anyone wants mine, its brand new, 22 miles on it. I bought it for $465 & am selling for $350. It was just an overkill in my case.
PS - I've get every bolt on for my CYM & am running 15# of boost (about 380 RWHP).
See ya,
-Matt
'88 Turbo II
'93 CYM
I have an HKS but took it off after I had a serious grounding wire install. That ignition has too much a$$ when combined with a serious ground kit. That HKS was sooo strong it fried by Iridium plugs & destroyed the MSD ignition wires I had (Geezus its strong!). I had 5k miles on my plugs so when that HKS got hooked up, it fried the plugs & wires (it amplifies ANY weakness in the electrical system & smokes it dead).
I'd recommend getting one or the other (Ignition amp or the Ground Kit, but not both
If anyone wants mine, its brand new, 22 miles on it. I bought it for $465 & am selling for $350. It was just an overkill in my case.
PS - I've get every bolt on for my CYM & am running 15# of boost (about 380 RWHP).
See ya,
-Matt
'88 Turbo II
'93 CYM
01-29-04, 09:56 AM
#46
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
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Originally posted by Tim Benton
first I've heard of that type thing happening with hks unit. I have heard plenty of people with MSD and crane frying their coils in the past. Way past, like 5 years ago, not sure if they still do it though.
Tim
first I've heard of that type thing happening with hks unit. I have heard plenty of people with MSD and crane frying their coils in the past. Way past, like 5 years ago, not sure if they still do it though.
Tim
I've heard of Jacobs and Crane frying coils....but I've never hear of the MSD frying a coil. Not saying its not possible though, especially if they had a weak coil but I'd imagine if that were the case any ignition would have fried it.
I've been running my MSD 6a for a year and prob put about 10K miles on it and havent had a prob yet.
Maybe they used a different MSD besides the 6a, MSD definatly makes some much more powerful models that I'm sure would fry a coil. That might be what happened.
STEPHEN
01-29-04, 11:10 AM
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I don't doubt that adding an ignition amp places more stress on the coils. However, Matt seems to be saying that the combination of the HKS system AND an upgraded ground system is the cause of his coil failure. I suspect that his coils would have failed regardless of whether he had a ground strap system or not. Or, at the very least, weak coils will fail if used with an ignition amp and ground strap system.
A couple people seem to be saying that the HKS and MSD systems perform the same function. I was under the impression that the HKS system increases the duration of the spark discharge as well as the intensity/amplitude, whereas the MSD amplifiers only does the later. Yes, no, maybe?
This is off the HKS site:
"The Twin Power ignition amplifier incorporates both the CDI and transistor method ignition to provide optimum spark duration and maximum voltage output, resulting in crisper throttle response and a smoother engine power band. The CDI method, capacity discharge ignition, provides maximum voltage by transferring all stored energy in the capacitor to the ignition coil so that the ignition current can buildup quickly, thus making the Twin Power very effective in the higher revs where a normal spark would tend to diminish. This strong rapid spark prevents the high rpm ignition miss that reduces peak power. The transistorized method generates high voltage by using transistors to cut off current to the coil, thus allowing for a long energy discharge. This longer spark duration allows the Twin Power to improve lower RPM throttle response and torque. The combination of the CDI and the transistor method incorporates two distinct systems into one high performance unit, hence the designation of Twin Power. The Twin Power produces a spark output that is typically 1.5-2.5 stronger than of the stock ignition system and consumes about 35% less power input than other ignition amplifiers. Each compact and attractive Twin power unit is constructed of durable anodized aluminum and sealed to prevent corrosion from moisture. General wiring harnesses are included in each unit to aid in installation and mounting. Vehicle Specific wiring harnesses are also available for certain models to further aid in installations that require intricate integration.(CARB E.O. # D-186-22)"
A couple people seem to be saying that the HKS and MSD systems perform the same function. I was under the impression that the HKS system increases the duration of the spark discharge as well as the intensity/amplitude, whereas the MSD amplifiers only does the later. Yes, no, maybe?
This is off the HKS site:
"The Twin Power ignition amplifier incorporates both the CDI and transistor method ignition to provide optimum spark duration and maximum voltage output, resulting in crisper throttle response and a smoother engine power band. The CDI method, capacity discharge ignition, provides maximum voltage by transferring all stored energy in the capacitor to the ignition coil so that the ignition current can buildup quickly, thus making the Twin Power very effective in the higher revs where a normal spark would tend to diminish. This strong rapid spark prevents the high rpm ignition miss that reduces peak power. The transistorized method generates high voltage by using transistors to cut off current to the coil, thus allowing for a long energy discharge. This longer spark duration allows the Twin Power to improve lower RPM throttle response and torque. The combination of the CDI and the transistor method incorporates two distinct systems into one high performance unit, hence the designation of Twin Power. The Twin Power produces a spark output that is typically 1.5-2.5 stronger than of the stock ignition system and consumes about 35% less power input than other ignition amplifiers. Each compact and attractive Twin power unit is constructed of durable anodized aluminum and sealed to prevent corrosion from moisture. General wiring harnesses are included in each unit to aid in installation and mounting. Vehicle Specific wiring harnesses are also available for certain models to further aid in installations that require intricate integration.(CARB E.O. # D-186-22)"
01-29-04, 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by CCarlisi
I don't doubt that adding an ignition amp places more stress on the coils. However, Matt seems to be saying that the combination of the HKS system AND an upgraded ground system is the cause of his coil failure. I suspect that his coils would have failed regardless of whether he had a ground strap system or not. Or, at the very least, weak coils will fail if used with an ignition amp and ground strap system.
A couple people seem to be saying that the HKS and MSD systems perform the same function. I was under the impression that the HKS system increases the duration of the spark discharge as well as the intensity/amplitude, whereas the MSD amplifiers only does the later. Yes, no, maybe?
This is off the HKS site:
"The Twin Power ignition amplifier incorporates both the CDI and transistor method ignition to provide optimum spark duration and maximum voltage output, resulting in crisper throttle response and a smoother engine power band. The CDI method, capacity discharge ignition, provides maximum voltage by transferring all stored energy in the capacitor to the ignition coil so that the ignition current can buildup quickly, thus making the Twin Power very effective in the higher revs where a normal spark would tend to diminish. This strong rapid spark prevents the high rpm ignition miss that reduces peak power. The transistorized method generates high voltage by using transistors to cut off current to the coil, thus allowing for a long energy discharge. This longer spark duration allows the Twin Power to improve lower RPM throttle response and torque. The combination of the CDI and the transistor method incorporates two distinct systems into one high performance unit, hence the designation of Twin Power. The Twin Power produces a spark output that is typically 1.5-2.5 stronger than of the stock ignition system and consumes about 35% less power input than other ignition amplifiers. Each compact and attractive Twin power unit is constructed of durable anodized aluminum and sealed to prevent corrosion from moisture. General wiring harnesses are included in each unit to aid in installation and mounting. Vehicle Specific wiring harnesses are also available for certain models to further aid in installations that require intricate integration.(CARB E.O. # D-186-22)"
I don't doubt that adding an ignition amp places more stress on the coils. However, Matt seems to be saying that the combination of the HKS system AND an upgraded ground system is the cause of his coil failure. I suspect that his coils would have failed regardless of whether he had a ground strap system or not. Or, at the very least, weak coils will fail if used with an ignition amp and ground strap system.
A couple people seem to be saying that the HKS and MSD systems perform the same function. I was under the impression that the HKS system increases the duration of the spark discharge as well as the intensity/amplitude, whereas the MSD amplifiers only does the later. Yes, no, maybe?
This is off the HKS site:
"The Twin Power ignition amplifier incorporates both the CDI and transistor method ignition to provide optimum spark duration and maximum voltage output, resulting in crisper throttle response and a smoother engine power band. The CDI method, capacity discharge ignition, provides maximum voltage by transferring all stored energy in the capacitor to the ignition coil so that the ignition current can buildup quickly, thus making the Twin Power very effective in the higher revs where a normal spark would tend to diminish. This strong rapid spark prevents the high rpm ignition miss that reduces peak power. The transistorized method generates high voltage by using transistors to cut off current to the coil, thus allowing for a long energy discharge. This longer spark duration allows the Twin Power to improve lower RPM throttle response and torque. The combination of the CDI and the transistor method incorporates two distinct systems into one high performance unit, hence the designation of Twin Power. The Twin Power produces a spark output that is typically 1.5-2.5 stronger than of the stock ignition system and consumes about 35% less power input than other ignition amplifiers. Each compact and attractive Twin power unit is constructed of durable anodized aluminum and sealed to prevent corrosion from moisture. General wiring harnesses are included in each unit to aid in installation and mounting. Vehicle Specific wiring harnesses are also available for certain models to further aid in installations that require intricate integration.(CARB E.O. # D-186-22)"
The main reason FD owners are using ignition amplifiers is to fix the high-rev "break-up". For this the HKS and the MSD6a have both been proven to work well.
Secondary reasons would be to get slightly more power by creating a more effictive combustion. This might be achieved by a stronger spark and/or a longer spark. So in this regard the HKS and the MSD work differently, but has anyone decided that one works better than the other by trying them both? I.E. is the longer spark needed to get the optimal power? And can an aftermarket ECU be used to change the spark duration? (I think most people getting an ignition amplifier probably already have an upgraded ECU)
