tookwik

Also, going by your sig. Looks like you have the money to waste. (well I wouldnt consider it wasting because of the cars you chose). I would personally shop for atleast a better deal.

R1TT

is it easy to convert to hid on the sleek kit? what size are the bulbs that come with it?

dclin

iTrader: (4)

The Rotary Extreme kit uses 90mm Hella 'true' headlamp assemblies, likely the US DOT approved models (Hella makes E-code versions of the 90mm) - in which case uses H9 bulbs.

http://faq.auto.light.tripod.com/hella-90mm/

Go halfway down page to the heading: "How do I fit an OEM D2S HID bulb into option 5?", which has illustrations/pictures of what needs to be done.

Hella also has HID versions of these 90mm assemblies, but prices them high. Each unit (one assembly) costs about $4-500 (which I take to include one housing assembly, D2S HID bulb, and a ballast).

If you were to do just low beam HID (I don't have any need for high beam HIDs, plus will not work for 'flash to pass' as that ignite time of bulb is about 1 sec), that means around $1000 total. Compare that to adapting HID bulbs/ballast to the non-HID housing assemblies - approx $400 for a pair of HID bulbs/ballasts and $110 for two low beam 90mm non-HID Hella housings - about $500+ total.

However, the site indicates that the conversion does not fully dupicate the true HID 90mm Hella solution's beam pattern and light characteristics. Just more proof that you can't just drop in any bulb into a housing assembly not designed for it and expect perfection. I'll likely go the retrofit route anyways, as that $500 saved is, well, $500 saved.

Daniel

*edit* RotaryExtreme offers the HID option for $600 more. I don't know if it's a converted non-HID housing (to HID), or if it's the true, made-for-HID Hella housings (though for $600, it better be the true made-for-HID housings hehe):

http://www.rotaryextreme.com/sleeklight.html

T88NosRx7

iTrader: (1)

Don't get catz they suck, seen them in an housing similar to the one you are getting, and they suck. Purple doesn't really decrease your visiablity, just get into a s2000. They have a purplish hue to them.

ttb

for those with HID where did you mount the ballast?

twiztedjeckel

well. there's a first

from everything i've read they seem to be the ****

BATMAN

My ballast is mounted right on top of the bumper frame.

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

I like to mount them in the behind.

BATMAN

i bet u do

dclin

iTrader: (4)

Whatever you do, mount the ballast where it moves along with the bulb - meaning on the lamp housing assembly frame so there is no flexing of the cable going from the bulb to the ballast everytime you pop open/close the retractable lamp assemblies.

On ignite, the voltage between the ballast and bulb exceeds 2000V. The voltage between the car battery and the ballast is Vb (12V+ of course). Which wire which you rather have fail due to stress from flexing over time, and short itself on the car frame?

Of course, you would not want any wire harness to fail, so if you do any modifications (new wire harness, whatever), make sure you adhere to common electrical safety practices - use of loom, special care when routing wires near sharp metal edges, periodic inspection, etc.

Incidently, because of the high voltage involved with HID, auto-specific HID ballasts have a shock sensor built into them which disables them in the event of an accident - to prevent people from getting shocked (and @ 2000V+, that would be an understatement) should there be a failure and shorting of the cable. Keep in mind that HID has been around for many years before auto-specific use (staduim, construction lighting) and I have no idea if there are non-auto ballasts that could be substituted (I doubt it, but...).

In other words, buy from a reputable seller/ 'kit' manufacturer. The potential liability from someone's death or injury (you, or someone else) is not worth the few dollars saved by buying a 'generic' kit.

Here is one vendor that seems to be reputable:

http://www.autolamps-online.com

If you are a light geek, the Philips message board is a good place to visit (though a bit clunky):

http://www.lighting.philips.com/foru...6/wwwforum.cgi

R1TT

dclin thanks for the info on the HID coversions on the 90mm hella lenses, but when I look for the HID kits I dont seem to see a kit suitable for an H9 bulb, even at
http://www.autolamps-online.com/gasd...e/totalkit.htm
am I missing something? or do you use a kit from another size bulb and make it fit?

dclin

iTrader: (4)

The Hella 90mm H9 housing assembly does not need a rebased/modified HID bulb - rather, it uses an unmodified D2S HID bulb.

You do have to modify the housing by enlarging the bulb socket hole, drill the base plate for three screw holes, and then make a retaining plate out of scratch. Here is the paragraph from that site:

How do I fit an OEM D2S HID bulb into option 5?

When you remove the H9 bulb,

http://faq.auto.light.tripod.com/hel...t-off-bulb.jpg

there will simply be a hole on a flat surface, that needs to be made bigger. A new diameter of 25mm should be fine. There is no need for accuracy when making this hole bigger.

http://faq.auto.light.tripod.com/hel...fore-after.jpg

Most HID bulbs do not have a flange built into the bulb socket above the base anyways, that could have been used for anti sliding prevention. Remove the rear plate, then cut using a Dremel "all purpose cutting" bit. It will decrease the life of the bit when cutting in magnesium compared to usage in plastic.
Drill out 3 holes for 6-32 x 1/2 inch (3 x 12mm) bolts in the backplate and align similar to option 3 below. It definatly needs to be horisontally centered. How many millmeters below center is currently unknown. In all cases, it should be within the range 0-2mm. To retain the bulb against backplate, use the same bulb retainer as used in option 3.

http://faq.auto.light.tripod.com/hel...te-for-D2S.jpg

***My commentary - this is where it's easy to miss - the retaining plate on the right side in the pic above is made from scratch, instructions for this in the paragraph two paragraphs down on thier site. The base plate on the left is from the housing, which you have to drill three holes***

The H9 version has a weatherpoof bulb, so a big rubber grommet is not included. Those rubber grommets are not available as spares from Hella. More details on custom weatherproofing is described under Herman's custom headlight units on this faq.

Second paragraph containing instructions to make the retaining plate:

....How do I fit a OEM D2S HID bulb into option 3?


http://faq.auto.light.tripod.com/hel...s-retainer.gif

Then get some aluminum or magnesium in 4 and 2mm thickness. Drill out 2 rings using hole saws or get help from a machine shop. For simplicity, the inner hole on both plates should be centered during drilling. Result should look like this after fabrication. If you make these rings at home, its hard to make this down to 0.5mm tolerances, which is required.....

Both are from here:

http://faq.auto.light.tripod.com/hella-90mm/

about 1/2 way down the page. So, in other words, you do not use a modified/rebased bulb, but you do have to modify the housing - at least with this solution. It's entirely possible there maybe H9-style rebased HID bulbs soon (if not already). The H9 bulb is relatively new, so not many cars are equipped with them. Therefore, aftermarket HID rebasers/modifiers likely will wait until there are more applications. I had contacted Autolamps Online about a H9 rebase, and this is what they said (but not in so many words). That was almost a year ago though.

Hope that helps.

R1TT

dclin thank again, I guess what I am asking is which conversion kit would I have to order in do this? I see that they have H1, H4, H7, 9005, 9006 but no listing for H9 , sorry Im not familiar with the HID kits, but a would'nt wanna order a $400 kit and have it the wrong size

tookwik

I found a perfect spot. If you take the parking/turn signal assembly out there is a ledge on the bumper right under the parking/turn light assembly hole on the inside. I screwed it in there along with a piece of 2 sided tape as well. The light assembly fits perfectly over the ballast. I zip tied the wired away from the motion of the headlamp, no problems at all. Been running it for almost a year now.

dclin

iTrader: (4)

You don't order a modified D2S HID bulb - you just order a regular, unmodified D2S bulb as used in every vehicle that comes standard (or optional) with HID.

However, you do have to modify the light housing to make it work.

Here is another way of looking at it:

In the beginning, there were regular halogen bulbs: H4, H1, etc.

Then came along HID, which were available in only one size D2x. There is a D2S and a D2R, with the only difference being the R has a thin masking strip added to the glass (long story for this).

Halogen equipped vehicle owners became jealous and demanded HID for their cars, but because the base of the bulb (where the bulb mates to the housing) is different amoung every single one of the bulb types (so that you cannot stick the wrong bulb in...easily) - along with the physical size of the bulb glass itself - you could not just stick a D2x bulb into any other housing.

Along came some clever entrepreneurs, who either made adaptors so you could put a D2x HID bulb where it did not belong, or completely yanked the glass bulb off the D2x base, and stuck it onto a new base that resembled the halogen base of H4s, H1s, etc. This is called rebasing.

However, for the Hella DOT approved H9 halogen bulb equipped 90mm housing (as used in RE's light kit), you do not need any of those rebased bulbs. You DO have to modify the housing instead to make it work however (with the instructions in my previous post).

As far as I can tell, there are no H9 style rebased HID bulbs at the moment. Likely, as more and more car are equipped with H9 bulbs (which happen to offer the highest lumens of any of the halogen bulbs), we'll begin to see more H9 rebase 'kits'.

dclin

iTrader: (4)

The problem is that there is still motion of the cable between the ballast and the bulb, everytime you open or close the retractable lamp assembly you'll stress the cable - if I read what you are trying to say, right.

Take a straight peice of wire, like a coat hanger, then bend it repeatedly in the same location in different directions. Eventually, the wire will fail at that point and break. Of course, the cable between the ballast and the bulb is more flexible - but the same principle applies. I really don't think the engineers meant for this cable to be flexed regulary like this.

You may not have problems for years and years (and maybe never), but it's not a risk I'm willing to take, especially when we are talking about as much voltage that can exist on that wire. I know what 12V feels like, but I really don't want to know what 2000v does.

dclin

iTrader: (4)

BTW, I found this site, which nicely compares 'aftermarket' painted HID bulbs to factory D2S bulbs.

http://www.mccullochhid.com/hid_difference.htm

Why anybody would want a 'blue' light beam is beyond me. Now that's rice.

dclin

iTrader: (4)

Has it been a year already? I remember when you first posted about getting your kit....

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...&highlight=hid

R1TT

Oh okay I see, thanks dclin for clarifying
so If I were to do this, the kit to buy would be DIY D2S Xenon HID Headlamp conversion kit and then mod the hella lights right, could I also use the d2r kit and fit it in my stock pop up's? I know you could probably get the modded d2r for them but hmmmm maybe I could play around with the hid's first then get the sleek kit
Is there problems with ballest location for the stock pop ups?

dclin

iTrader: (4)

I'm not familiar with DIY (is this a company?).

You can just order a H4 rebase kit for your stock lamp assemblies, but when time comes to adapt it to the Hella 90mm, those instructions may not apply any more.

Remember that the instructions above assume that the HID bulbs still have the D2x base, but you will have a HID bulb that has a H4 base (if you get the H4 kit of course). Not sure how this will affect the procedure to fit them to the Hella 90mm housings.

You could just contact the kit manufacturer to see if they can supply you with a regular D2S bulb when you get around to do the Hellas. However, because the H4 kit is likely rebased, I do not know if it shares the same bulb connector. Every 'manufacturer' likely does their rebase differently, do not know all the differences.

One thing I forgot to mention is that in every case, the HID system SHOULD NOT be run off the stock headlamp harness. It is acceptable (actually, preferable) for the stock headlamp harness be used only to trigger a relay which in turn supplies power to the ballast via a heavyduty wireharness. The kit you order should have this heavyduty wireharness/relay included.

As for location of ballast - it just should be located where it does not move (in relation to the bulb), and obviously where water cannot get to it easily or pool around.

I had HID driving lights with Philips D2s bulbs and Philips automotive ballasts (w/ outer weather resistant casing) a couple years ago, and I mounted those inside the FG bumper support, along the 'roof' of the support. The idea is that water can't get in there easily and, if it did, would not pool around the unit.

I found that HID driving lights were almost pointless though (so low to the ground), and sold them to a forum member who was working on a headlight kit (was that you A-spec? Can't remember....)

R1TT

Sorry for not being clear dclin, the diy kit I mean is on the order form
http://www.autolamps-online.com/products/orderform.htm
DIY D2S Xenon HID Headlamp conversion kit and DIY D2R Xenon HID Headlamp conversion kit , both for $399

now if I could ask you to elaborate on the details between the details of the d2s and d2r I see the pics of the bulbs are almost the same just a black line near the bottom of the lense, can you tell me some benifits or drawbacks? which one would you use the S or R's?
again your info is very much appreciated

dclin

iTrader: (4)

If I read Autolamp's description correctly, then the components of this kit is simply made up of parts just like when they shipped directly from Philip's factory (true OEM bulbs/ballasts). These bulbs are not rebased, so the instructions for adapting them to the Hella 90mm housings apply.

However, it looks like they do not include the heavyduty wireharness and relay with this DIY kit (hence the name I guess). Looking around though, it looks like they offer this as well. You will need to get the H4 wire kit (as that the FD uses H4).

http://www.autolamps-online.com/gasd...FETharness.htm

Also, because these bulbs (in the DIY kit) are not rebased, you will not be able to easily adapt it to the stock FD housing. You will have to do some work creating an adaptor so that works (and if you do, congratulations, you just became an HID 'kit' manufacturer)

The difference between the D2S and D2R boils down to simply what kind of housing it belongs in - projector or elliptical. When automotive HID was first being designed, automakers were involved (afterall, they were the 'end' customer and responsible for integrating the final product).

The HID bulb was originally designed for projectors, but many vehicle manufacturers had elliptical housings designed for thier existing cars already and did not want to redesign them for projector use. The D2R was created to allow usage in elliptical housings, so the cost of redesigning existing headlights could be avoided. Other then the 'mask' on the D2R, it is essentially indentical to the D2S.

Note that the difference is true only of OEM housings. Aftermarket HID 'kit' manufacturers pay little or no attention to how a rebased bulb is positioned in the housing assembly (position off even a mm affects light dispersion/pattern), so the difference between a D2R and D2S bulb is likely moot in this situation. No matter what you do, if the housing was not originally designed for HID (and you stick an HID bulb in there rebased ort otherwise), it will likely never match/equal a OEM HID system. The question then is - how close can you get?

R1TT

thank's dclin

dclin

iTrader: (4)

No problem.

Going back to the HD harness, I went back and looked at it and realized that it's not your typical HD wire harness and relay kit. They use a FET in it's place...neat:

http://www.autolamps-online.com/gasd...FETharness.htm

I'll likely do the Hella 90mm's with the HID mod, but in a Knightsport configuration - since a certain someone here (who I will not mention, *cough* rx7even*cough*)can't seem to get their kit going hehe.

Tanabe

quick question
anyone have an opinion/experience w/ the hids from spw industries? good/bad? thanks