BATMAN

How is it a by product since the material in ceramic coating doesn't posess carbon.

Kento

Once the a/f mixture is in the combustion chamber, any atomization that can be done has been taken care of. It's when the mixture is on its way to the combustion chamber that this would have any possible effect.

Kento

Because the whole point of ceramic coatings is to retain more heat/energy for power production. Any reduction in carbon buildup is a by-product of that process (ceramic coating).

BATMAN

never mind.

Kento just addressed that for me.

jimlab

Kento is right. Atomization takes place in the intake, not in the combustion chamber. You want the piston (rotor) and cylinder head (rotor housing) surfaces as smooth as possible to avoid sharp edges that may result in hot spots, which can cause pre-ignition.

DamonB

Well thank you. Your original link had a whole lot about exhaust coatings and dry film lubricants...

rotaryhardcore

Ceramic seals are going to have more longevity, especially under extreme conditions. So if the owner of an engine is probably going to rebuild and they would like some options, ceramic seals are a very good one. Especially in a performance upgrade situation.

(Of course, I've heard of them failing; and it makes sense becuase ceramics are brittle materials. Ceramics have virtually no deformation under applied stresses, but will fail very rapidly at their yield strength. This is directly effected by the amount of impurities and imperfections in the microstructure. And applying ceramics to cylinder heads or rotor faces would facilitate a heavy multitude of imperfections and impurities; hence why they normally fail. Ceramic seals can be created under more controlled conditions and are not bonded to any other material, so there's no transfer of imperfection from a surface metal into the ceramic itself: one of the reasons they last longer than factory metal seals. 'Just a testament to the ceramic apex seals being a better option.)

I didn't say anything about ceramic seals facilitating the same properties of ceramic coatings. I admit the suggestion might not be completely in line with the discussion, but it is relative.

So before you choose to say anything remotely derogatory about my statements, please be very mindful of what you're reading. I just wanted to straighten that out so no one has any misconceptions about any of my posts.

No hard feelings.

-C

Sesshoumaru

iTrader: (1)

hhhhmmmmmmm

that makes a bit more sense.....

i guess i'll just have to polish my rotors now


btw rotaryhardcore..........that reminded me of my damn material engineering class!

rotaryhardcore

Sesshoumaru...

I hear yah. Maybe if we get a few materials scientists together when can build a better rotary.

-C

Sesshoumaru

iTrader: (1)

probably..........

but i'm actually a Electrical Engineer......took that for my technical elective

I never though i would actually hear yield strength, impurities, and deformations appied to something usefull

interesting stuff though.......

DamonB

I was mindful and not derogatory. Ceramic apex seals are not inline with the ideas of ceramic engine coatings: keeping the heat of combustion out of engine parts.

The pros and cons of ceramic apex seals are discussed at length in other threads.

rotaryhardcore

DamonB,

I outlined all that very clearly in the post that you just quoted.

And if you really want to get down to it, ceramic seals do keep heat out of themselves, adding to the overall heat resistance of the engine.

-C

KevinK2

787B race engine link.

conflicting info. early on page states the rotor and side housings were coated, but illustration and other verbage clearly suggest the coating was only applied to rubbed surfaces to resist wear.

http://www.mymazdarotary.com/mazda_r...paper_html.htm

jimlab

I'd like to know how you made that leap of logic...

BATMAN

perhaps at the miniscule level

chris406

To my knowledge Ceramic coating is not what you want for either a rotor face or a piston. In piston egines they use a thermal coating that reflects heat on the piston top and combustion chamber, and a slick coating on the piston skirts. The thermal coating is gold colored. Swain Tech Coatings has these available and i think even in home kits. They have an internet site, not sure of what it is though.
Engine bearings in race piston egines are also coated to increase life.

jimlab

If you'd read the whole thread, you would be...

DCrosby

What about Chrome plating the rotor to defelct heat, similar to what aluminum foil does for food !? ....
Plating Metal is more reliable, less suspect to poor application or issues of application like ceramics.... and the rotor wouldn't have to be heated which could cause some of the thermal treatments to deteriorate...

-DC

andericus mack

I had mine coated by whatever hayes uses-on their
website.
batman, still have tanabe?Let me know.

andericus mack

It is MOS2[molybdenum sulfate or sulfite- forgot my
chem] on rotors and ceramic on dish surface. I have
beat the **** out of this motor with 22psi and 75shot at
track. Run 15 psi street. Over 20,000mi on it and 3yrs. no probs.

Carlos Iglesias

iTrader: (6)

A recent discussion/quasi-flame I initiated on Internal Coatings. Perhaps some additional ideas not already discussed... and then again, maybe not...

Internal Coating thread/discussion

BATMAN

Chrome is not strong enough to sustain combustion pressures.

It's bad enough that they chip off on wheels..........

DCrosby

I'm not certain but I'm not talking about standard, hold a wire into a solvant with a chrome metal and plate the surface, type of deal, I'm pretty sure we're talking about some sort of adheasion process superior to this... (The sugestion came from a mechanical engineer working with high end materials for sporting applications)

BATMAN

Sorry, I was thinking of #1.

Main Entry: by-prod·uct
Pronunciation: -"prä-(")d&kt
Function: noun
Date: 1857
1 : something produced in a usually industrial or biological process in addition to the principal product
2 : a secondary and sometimes unexpected or unintended result