It is hard to let go... *pics*.. and I WONT give up
11-25-03, 09:19 AM
#27
Originally posted by Tom93R1
That is a very bad idea. Not only do you have alot more power when you hit the accelerator but you also have alot more engine braking when you let off. That can be just as bad or even worse than breaking the rear end loose under power because it is alot less predictable. On slick surfaces just keep the revs down under 3k and keep the throttle light.
That is a very bad idea. Not only do you have alot more power when you hit the accelerator but you also have alot more engine braking when you let off. That can be just as bad or even worse than breaking the rear end loose under power because it is alot less predictable. On slick surfaces just keep the revs down under 3k and keep the throttle light.
I don't mean to sound like a *****, but up here in the north we get lots of practice with this. Driving in snow means moving the throttle very gently, and dropping the clutch when you take off the throttle so that engine braking isn't a factor. Wet roads are the same, but 10x more forgiving.
Would I absolutely recommend keeping the rpms over 3k? I don't know - hence the 'may' in my idea. But it's worth a try.
Dave
11-25-03, 10:24 AM
#28
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Originally posted by bricke
Did your passenger sustain any coffee burns? Ouch
Did your passenger sustain any coffee burns? Ouch
I want to thank all of you for your posts, already there is some really good information here that I will bear in mind...
I just got of the phone with someone from progressive who was looking at the car as he talked to me. He said that he was going to get with his manager and probably declare the car a total loss, and that I should be getting a call later today.
I definitely want to buy back this car if they total it and work on getting the motor into another -7- that has a blown motor.. but time will tell what Progressive will allow me to do..
Alien7-
I was on Fillmore, up near Jenison MI.. They arent any real "good" twisties... It is like fields and flatness on both sides, and then there is this "oaisis" kind of forested area with a twisting road that goes right down the hill through the middle of it... heavily residential and only like 1 mile in length or less.
Yep, was some kind of fresh, freezing rain... It was only wet outside earlier but then it rained.. then it snowed later that night.
Looking at my FD yesterday was a very sad moment for me. I really loved that car..
Dan
11-25-03, 10:31 AM
#29
Originally posted by ClockworkB
Yep, was some kind of fresh, freezing rain... It was only wet outside earlier but then it rained.. then it snowed later that night.
Dan
Yep, was some kind of fresh, freezing rain... It was only wet outside earlier but then it rained.. then it snowed later that night.
Dan
Personally, I won't drive my FD below 40F unless I'm absolutely sure the roads are dry everywhere. Ice just forms in weird places when you don't think it's cold enough. Fortunately I learned this running (banged myself up pretty bad b/c I was going almost full speed downhill) and there weren't cars invovled.
Dave
11-25-03, 10:35 AM
#31
Originally posted by ClockworkB
I expected that.. and I suppose I may deserve it... but I remind you that at least I wasn't trying to pull something that the -7- could not handle.. I save all of that kind of "competitive energy" for the track.
I expected that.. and I suppose I may deserve it... but I remind you that at least I wasn't trying to pull something that the -7- could not handle.. I save all of that kind of "competitive energy" for the track.
On the other hand, you DID pull something you couldn't handle, the other cars on the road did not roll a couple of times right?
11-25-03, 10:37 AM
#32
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Terribly sorry about the loss, but I'm glad you and your passenger were ok.
You seem really optimistic about the situation though, which is good. I hope you get another one and enjoy it just as much as you have this one.
And to those that would criticize you for "bad driving," unless you've driven an FD in snow/sleet you really can't say much of anything. I didn't have a beater to drive last year, and ended up spending all winter in my FD in Mass (we got 112 inches of snow last year!)
The cars are very unpredictable in the snow. I was going downhill in the snow, off throttle for quite a while, with all season tires on the car, and it started spinning. No throttle inputs, negligable steering inputs, it just started spinning. Luckily either myself or the car was able to gain control again, but it's a scary thing.
Good luck with the insurance company, I hope they'll give you FMV.
You seem really optimistic about the situation though, which is good. I hope you get another one and enjoy it just as much as you have this one.
And to those that would criticize you for "bad driving," unless you've driven an FD in snow/sleet you really can't say much of anything. I didn't have a beater to drive last year, and ended up spending all winter in my FD in Mass (we got 112 inches of snow last year!)
The cars are very unpredictable in the snow. I was going downhill in the snow, off throttle for quite a while, with all season tires on the car, and it started spinning. No throttle inputs, negligable steering inputs, it just started spinning. Luckily either myself or the car was able to gain control again, but it's a scary thing.
Good luck with the insurance company, I hope they'll give you FMV.
11-25-03, 10:53 AM
#33
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Originally posted by weaklink
Reality Check:
The car is totaled-which means your insurance company only has to give you book value (not what the car is actually worth)-probably around $15K. If you paid $19K you are out some jack.
You mentioned "Yes, unfortunately IT has happened again". I hope this doesn't mean that this is the second (or more) accident. That combined with your ticket may mean you will have trouble getting insurance at all-much less get insured on another "sports" car.
You may be able to "buy back" your car from the insurance company. There are several people here on the forum that can "fix" it. Try doing a search. Of course it will have a salvage title.
Glad you weren't hurt. Probably the load from going uphill, combined with opening the throttle kicked in the turbo and WHOOP, there it is. Happened to me going around a corner once-180 spin-thankfully didn't hit anything.
Best wishes-hope things work out for ya.
Reality Check:
The car is totaled-which means your insurance company only has to give you book value (not what the car is actually worth)-probably around $15K. If you paid $19K you are out some jack.
You mentioned "Yes, unfortunately IT has happened again". I hope this doesn't mean that this is the second (or more) accident. That combined with your ticket may mean you will have trouble getting insurance at all-much less get insured on another "sports" car.
You may be able to "buy back" your car from the insurance company. There are several people here on the forum that can "fix" it. Try doing a search. Of course it will have a salvage title.
Glad you weren't hurt. Probably the load from going uphill, combined with opening the throttle kicked in the turbo and WHOOP, there it is. Happened to me going around a corner once-180 spin-thankfully didn't hit anything.
Best wishes-hope things work out for ya.
Yea, I really don't care WHAT the insurance company does, as long as I end up with another FD in decent condition (hopefully comperable to my old one).
Oh.. yea.. and when I said "Yes, unfortunately IT has happened again" I actually just meant that another -7- is on its way to that big auto salvage yard in the sky... something like this has never happend to me personally before.
I want to thank all of you for your support, sympathay, and advice..
and YES that does include those of you providint me with "constructive critisism" also (valid point turbojeff)
Dan
11-25-03, 12:27 PM
#35
Originally posted by dgeesaman
You're not supposed to just let off. It's basic winter driving skills to not change the throttle position quickly, whether it's accelerating or letting off. The accelerator pedal on stock FDs isn't touchy at all, and if your RPMs are between 3k and 5k the available throttle is very smooth and easy to modulate.
I don't mean to sound like a *****, but up here in the north we get lots of practice with this. Driving in snow means moving the throttle very gently, and dropping the clutch when you take off the throttle so that engine braking isn't a factor. Wet roads are the same, but 10x more forgiving.
Would I absolutely recommend keeping the rpms over 3k? I don't know - hence the 'may' in my idea. But it's worth a try.
Dave
You're not supposed to just let off. It's basic winter driving skills to not change the throttle position quickly, whether it's accelerating or letting off. The accelerator pedal on stock FDs isn't touchy at all, and if your RPMs are between 3k and 5k the available throttle is very smooth and easy to modulate.
I don't mean to sound like a *****, but up here in the north we get lots of practice with this. Driving in snow means moving the throttle very gently, and dropping the clutch when you take off the throttle so that engine braking isn't a factor. Wet roads are the same, but 10x more forgiving.
Would I absolutely recommend keeping the rpms over 3k? I don't know - hence the 'may' in my idea. But it's worth a try.
Dave
I know what you are saying, but I still disagree. I do have 2 years winter driving my FD with Z-rated tires because I am too cheap to get all-seasons or snow tires as my only car in Colorado. Before that I drove a TurboII through another 2 winters and had various other fwd and awd cars through other years. I have been in the snow my whole life (mostly Colorado) until moving to AZ 2 years ago. In theory if everything is perfect then you can drive at any RPM and keep the throttle smooth. In reality it is not that easy and getting the rpms matched when you shift, or let out the clutch at any time is never quite perfect. The lower the RPM the less likely you are to get too much power or to much engine braking when you do let out the clutch a little imperfectly, or accidentally step on the gas a bit too much or let off it a little too quickly.
Speaking of wet roads, I am utterly amazed at the problems people out here in AZ have when it rains. Even with all the California and Texas drivers in CO there werent as many accidents when it snowed as we get here when it sprinkles for 15 minutes here.
Good luck with the Insurance company ClockworkB!
11-25-03, 12:50 PM
#36
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Sorry for your loss!! I used to live in Traverse City and understand the road conditions.(from some peoples posts they obviously have never driven in cold weather and should remain quiet!)Don't beat yourself up over it.
Things happen that's why they are called accidents. Just do me a favor and promise never to drive another 7 on Mi. winter roads.
Ice,slush and the worst of all, SALT! Glad your OK . Aloha, Dave
Things happen that's why they are called accidents. Just do me a favor and promise never to drive another 7 on Mi. winter roads. Ice,slush and the worst of all, SALT! Glad your OK . Aloha, Dave
11-25-03, 02:01 PM
#37
Dan... Dan... Dan, what did you do? That was such a nice car. I guess you should have been paying more attention when I took you for those few laps in the wet around Gingerman. Maybe you should have done the track day too, that way you could have learned how the FD acted in the wet. Okay ……… Enough of my Monday quarter-backing.
I am sorry to hear about this, it really sucks. Oh wel, all this means is that you have to buy a 95 with less miles. J
You have to get another FD before spring, this way we can do a track day at Gingerman.
Good luck finding a car, if you find one in Chicago and want me to take a look at it before you make the trip out, let me know.
Later
I am sorry to hear about this, it really sucks. Oh wel, all this means is that you have to buy a 95 with less miles. J
You have to get another FD before spring, this way we can do a track day at Gingerman.
Good luck finding a car, if you find one in Chicago and want me to take a look at it before you make the trip out, let me know.
Later
11-25-03, 03:23 PM
#38
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Originally posted by dgeesaman
Yowee. It doens't matter what kind of car you're driving when there's ice. That makes the $90 ticket particularly insulting.
Personally, I won't drive my FD below 40F unless I'm absolutely sure the roads are dry everywhere. Ice just forms in weird places when you don't think it's cold enough. Fortunately I learned this running (banged myself up pretty bad b/c I was going almost full speed downhill) and there weren't cars invovled.
Dave
Yowee. It doens't matter what kind of car you're driving when there's ice. That makes the $90 ticket particularly insulting.
Personally, I won't drive my FD below 40F unless I'm absolutely sure the roads are dry everywhere. Ice just forms in weird places when you don't think it's cold enough. Fortunately I learned this running (banged myself up pretty bad b/c I was going almost full speed downhill) and there weren't cars invovled.
Dave
11-25-03, 03:29 PM
#39
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Originally posted by turbojeff
Well I think it is good you and your passenger are OK.
On the other hand, you DID pull something you couldn't handle, the other cars on the road did not roll a couple of times right?
Well I think it is good you and your passenger are OK.
On the other hand, you DID pull something you couldn't handle, the other cars on the road did not roll a couple of times right?
It seems like it was a freakish accident that ClockworkB got sucked into.
I've had the a similar thing happen to me in an S2000 (although I didnt have ditches or roll the car since I just let it do it's thing) @ 20 mph during a freak hail storm about a year ago. The hail and rain picked up their force very quickly and next thing you know, the road is covered with ice. Myself and everyone else are driving like grandmothers and then the rear just let loose and car circled.. There were no funky driver inputs by myself.
11-25-03, 04:07 PM
#40
Originally posted by weaklink
Reality Check:
The car is totaled-which means your insurance company only has to give you book value (not what the car is actually worth)-probably around $15K. If you paid $19K you are out some jack.
Reality Check:
The car is totaled-which means your insurance company only has to give you book value (not what the car is actually worth)-probably around $15K. If you paid $19K you are out some jack.
I am sad that you destroyed a very nice car. Obviously, you were unable to control it despite knowing the weather conditions. I suggest that you buy another type of car, and gain more driving experience before purchasing another high performance car.
Adam
11-25-03, 04:32 PM
#41
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I don't drive my rx-7 unless it's over 50 degrees and sunny, mainly because my boost spikes up to 14psi in the cold weather on the stock turbos. (I've saved 600$ for the PFC... just a few more hundred to go)..
Also, I just hate driving performance cars in sub 50 dregree weather. Peronally, my rx-7 sounds all creaky and the car just feels icky to drive when it's really cold out. Combine this with the fact that I can't even drive the damn car how it's supposed to be driven when it's cold out (psi boost).
If it comes down to it, I'll just take the bus. Fortunately, I almost always have access to my family's cars for the cold weather.
I'm really sorry to hear about your loss and it sounds like you just got a really shitty deal. I wish you the best of luck with insurance and such, and I'm glad to hear you guys are both fine.
Also, I just hate driving performance cars in sub 50 dregree weather. Peronally, my rx-7 sounds all creaky and the car just feels icky to drive when it's really cold out. Combine this with the fact that I can't even drive the damn car how it's supposed to be driven when it's cold out (psi boost).
If it comes down to it, I'll just take the bus. Fortunately, I almost always have access to my family's cars for the cold weather.
I'm really sorry to hear about your loss and it sounds like you just got a really shitty deal. I wish you the best of luck with insurance and such, and I'm glad to hear you guys are both fine.
11-25-03, 04:35 PM
#42
I'm a CF and poop smith
how fast were you going? in anycase, your fd held up pretty good for rolling 2 times i think, your lucky to be alive. Personnaly, in the rain I never go over 35mph(people on the highway can suck my ***** and pass me if they dont like it!) unless im specifically going out to get sideways
11-25-03, 04:40 PM
#43
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Originally posted by Tom93R1
On slick surfaces just keep the revs down under 3k and keep the throttle light.
On slick surfaces just keep the revs down under 3k and keep the throttle light.
I reiterate: SMOOTH!
11-25-03, 04:52 PM
#44
Originally posted by Tom93R1
I know what you are saying, but I still disagree. I do have 2 years winter driving my FD with Z-rated tires because I am too cheap to get all-seasons or snow tires as my only car in Colorado. Before that I drove a TurboII through another 2 winters and had various other fwd and awd cars through other years. I have been in the snow my whole life (mostly Colorado) until moving to AZ 2 years ago. In theory if everything is perfect then you can drive at any RPM and keep the throttle smooth. In reality it is not that easy and getting the rpms matched when you shift, or let out the clutch at any time is never quite perfect. The lower the RPM the less likely you are to get too much power or to much engine braking when you do let out the clutch a little imperfectly, or accidentally step on the gas a bit too much or let off it a little too quickly.
I know what you are saying, but I still disagree. I do have 2 years winter driving my FD with Z-rated tires because I am too cheap to get all-seasons or snow tires as my only car in Colorado. Before that I drove a TurboII through another 2 winters and had various other fwd and awd cars through other years. I have been in the snow my whole life (mostly Colorado) until moving to AZ 2 years ago. In theory if everything is perfect then you can drive at any RPM and keep the throttle smooth. In reality it is not that easy and getting the rpms matched when you shift, or let out the clutch at any time is never quite perfect. The lower the RPM the less likely you are to get too much power or to much engine braking when you do let out the clutch a little imperfectly, or accidentally step on the gas a bit too much or let off it a little too quickly.
Basically I think we'll both agree that manual transmissions, rear wheel drive, high power/weight, and turbo onset all make winter driving dangerous. Damn, FDs have all of that!!
Dave
11-25-03, 04:53 PM
#45
No it's not Turbo'd
For One Definitely Buy Back the car, it's worth far more to you than the insurance company, since who knows, you might be able to pick something up real cheap that you have to swap the interior on, but what do you care ? You have a spare now... not to mention most likely what the inshurance company wants (2k) most likely, will be easily recouped by the engine sale alone, so the rest you get for free in all ....
Progressive, will most likely cut you a check for Total Value, try to convince them through auctions online and auto trader, that a white one, with such low miles would be very difficult to replace... you might get more $$ than what you paid for it... (I did.) and why not ?? Your negotiating skills for a vehicle do not count towards the vheicle's value... All in all everything went pretty smooth, I had to try and get the Towing Charges reimbursed... other than that slight struggle, no foul play, then again I was not injured, and walked away... and I had no passenger who could claim any injuries...
Concidereing
<-----
I was very lucky, had that been a cliff in the desert moutain I wouldn't be here... That thought still haunts me... I've never driven out in the open countryside teh same way again...
Progressive, will most likely cut you a check for Total Value, try to convince them through auctions online and auto trader, that a white one, with such low miles would be very difficult to replace... you might get more $$ than what you paid for it... (I did.) and why not ?? Your negotiating skills for a vehicle do not count towards the vheicle's value... All in all everything went pretty smooth, I had to try and get the Towing Charges reimbursed... other than that slight struggle, no foul play, then again I was not injured, and walked away... and I had no passenger who could claim any injuries...
Concidereing
<-----
I was very lucky, had that been a cliff in the desert moutain I wouldn't be here... That thought still haunts me... I've never driven out in the open countryside teh same way again...
11-25-03, 06:47 PM
#47
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Originally posted by Tom93R1
Speaking of wet roads, I am utterly amazed at the problems people out here in AZ have when it rains. Even with all the California and Texas drivers in CO there werent as many accidents when it snowed as we get here when it sprinkles for 15 minutes here.
Speaking of wet roads, I am utterly amazed at the problems people out here in AZ have when it rains. Even with all the California and Texas drivers in CO there werent as many accidents when it snowed as we get here when it sprinkles for 15 minutes here.
I don't drive my fd when it is raining, that is why I have one of the few white 94's left in the US
11-25-03, 07:31 PM
#48
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Originally posted by adam c
Some people shouldn't give advice when they don't know what they are talking about. I am an insurance broker dealing primarily in auto insurance for many years. You should be able to get full market value for your car. Just prove what it is worth, by showing them what it costs to buy one in similar condition. Your recent purchase should be an indicator of the value. They may try to offer you less for the car. That is the way the industry works. It's all a negotiation. If you are a bad negotiator, you will end up with less than you should.
I am sad that you destroyed a very nice car. Obviously, you were unable to control it despite knowing the weather conditions. I suggest that you buy another type of car, and gain more driving experience before purchasing another high performance car.
Adam
Some people shouldn't give advice when they don't know what they are talking about. I am an insurance broker dealing primarily in auto insurance for many years. You should be able to get full market value for your car. Just prove what it is worth, by showing them what it costs to buy one in similar condition. Your recent purchase should be an indicator of the value. They may try to offer you less for the car. That is the way the industry works. It's all a negotiation. If you are a bad negotiator, you will end up with less than you should.
I am sad that you destroyed a very nice car. Obviously, you were unable to control it despite knowing the weather conditions. I suggest that you buy another type of car, and gain more driving experience before purchasing another high performance car.
Adam
11-25-03, 10:41 PM
#49
When I was in Colorado a friend of mine was driving her old Civic and somebody ran a red light, t-boned her and totaled her car. Both cars were insured by State Farm, so of course State Farm tried to give her as little as possible. Low book was about $1200 so that is what they wanted to give her. I told her to grab the local cars for sale paper and take it down there with a few cars like her circled and say something like "my lawyer said I should be able to get enough to replace my car" and show in the paper what it was really worth. Well, she walked out of there that day with over $3k in pocket. Might be something worth trying if Progressive tries to bend you over.
No argument here! Of course all that is what also makes it fun in the slick, as long as you dont hit anything.
Basically I think we'll both agree that manual transmissions, rear wheel drive, high power/weight, and turbo onset all make winter driving dangerous. Damn, FDs have all of that!!
