Glowing manifold and turbo at idle!
12-02-13, 04:58 PM
#1
Glowing manifold and turbo at idle!
I am having a big drama with my project atm. My manifold glows like a F1 car, at idle and if I rev a bit exhaust housing of the turbo starts glowing as well. When EGT is around 400 degrees celsius the turbo manifold glows but when EGTs go up to 500-550 degrees celsius the turbo starts glowing as well. We couldn't stop it with adjustments to power fc / datalogit.
At first we thought it's a faulty datalogit box but tried with another DL box and it's still there. I have checked with few different maps and all seem to be similar. There is nothing on my map which looks unusual.
What can cause such aggressive timing retard? Can it be related to leading and trailing coils mixed up? Although I changed coils and idle was still normal, didn't feel anything unusual. Can it be related to vacuum leak, crank angle sensor etc.? We are running out of ideas at this stage. I am considering replacing the oem engine harness and the ecu next but if the problem is mechanical it will just be a waste of money and time.
I need suggestions or ideas on what to check, any help will be much appreciated.
Below you can see the pics of the engine bay and the maps:
At first we thought it's a faulty datalogit box but tried with another DL box and it's still there. I have checked with few different maps and all seem to be similar. There is nothing on my map which looks unusual.
What can cause such aggressive timing retard? Can it be related to leading and trailing coils mixed up? Although I changed coils and idle was still normal, didn't feel anything unusual. Can it be related to vacuum leak, crank angle sensor etc.? We are running out of ideas at this stage. I am considering replacing the oem engine harness and the ecu next but if the problem is mechanical it will just be a waste of money and time.
I need suggestions or ideas on what to check, any help will be much appreciated.
Below you can see the pics of the engine bay and the maps:
12-02-13, 06:02 PM
#6
It runs ok, starts each time, smooth idle, revs ok until boost (because it's rich atm once boost kicks in it bogs down a bit). Nothing really unusual but I am thinking this may be a mechanical issue more than a tuning issue.
12-02-13, 06:26 PM
#7
Is it an OEM crank sensor setup?
Have you removed the main pulley? Is it possible that the toothed wheel is on incorrectly?
I dont know whether the car could even start and run like that, but typically a glowing exhaust means your ignition is retarded too far.
Have you removed the main pulley? Is it possible that the toothed wheel is on incorrectly?
I dont know whether the car could even start and run like that, but typically a glowing exhaust means your ignition is retarded too far.
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12-02-13, 06:55 PM
#10
Stock coils, HKS Twin Power, Bur9xx plugs, SBG plug wires...
12-02-13, 11:34 PM
#12
this may be a dumb question, but do you have the spark plug wires flipped? that would retard your leading timing about 22*, if i'm reading this correctly, but i wouldnt think it would even run like that. if it did, i wouldnt run very well...
also, i'm slightly confused as to why your trailing timing map jumps drastically from 1200 to 1400rpms from -7 to +30. i like to view it in "split" mode though. are you running a 22* split at idle? am i reading that correctly? that trailing timing map looks jacked up. can you re-post a screenshot of your trailing timing map but with the "display split" checkbox checked?
also, i'm slightly confused as to why your trailing timing map jumps drastically from 1200 to 1400rpms from -7 to +30. i like to view it in "split" mode though. are you running a 22* split at idle? am i reading that correctly? that trailing timing map looks jacked up. can you re-post a screenshot of your trailing timing map but with the "display split" checkbox checked?
12-03-13, 09:55 AM
#13
this may be a dumb question, but do you have the spark plug wires flipped? that would retard your leading timing about 22*, if i'm reading this correctly, but i wouldnt think it would even run like that. if it did, i wouldnt run very well...
also, i'm slightly confused as to why your trailing timing map jumps drastically from 1200 to 1400rpms from -7 to +30. i like to view it in "split" mode though. are you running a 22* split at idle? am i reading that correctly? that trailing timing map looks jacked up. can you re-post a screenshot of your trailing timing map but with the "display split" checkbox checked?
also, i'm slightly confused as to why your trailing timing map jumps drastically from 1200 to 1400rpms from -7 to +30. i like to view it in "split" mode though. are you running a 22* split at idle? am i reading that correctly? that trailing timing map looks jacked up. can you re-post a screenshot of your trailing timing map but with the "display split" checkbox checked?
12-03-13, 10:39 AM
#14
Check to make sure you crank angle sensor wiring isn't swapped. The white connector should be at the top. Make sure they coil harness and the order of the coils is correct and that the wires go from the correct coil to the correct spark plug. I recently had to fix a car where someone switched the order of the actual coils on the bracket. The car acted similarly. Also, it is possibly to have an wiring issue between the ecu, igniter, and coils. If the signal wire for the coil is bad the coil could be constantly dwelling so it will look like it is sparking, but the timing will be way off. I had another car do that recently as well.
12-03-13, 04:34 PM
#15
Check to make sure you crank angle sensor wiring isn't swapped. The white connector should be at the top. Make sure they coil harness and the order of the coils is correct and that the wires go from the correct coil to the correct spark plug. I recently had to fix a car where someone switched the order of the actual coils on the bracket. The car acted similarly. Also, it is possibly to have an wiring issue between the ecu, igniter, and coils. If the signal wire for the coil is bad the coil could be constantly dwelling so it will look like it is sparking, but the timing will be way off. I had another car do that recently as well.
Coils and other connectors should be in correct places as well but my mechanic installed them and may have mixed them up. I will check each one of the things you've listed one by one.
12-03-13, 07:48 PM
#16
Where are you measuring your EGT? right near the exhaust port, before the turbo? After the turbo?
It sure sounds like some fundamental mechanical issue. The maps look fine, but you could set "IGN vs Water T cool" in settings 4 tab to 0 for both boxes instead of 15. I would think that some crank angle sensor or ignition coil problem would be the cause.
It sure sounds like some fundamental mechanical issue. The maps look fine, but you could set "IGN vs Water T cool" in settings 4 tab to 0 for both boxes instead of 15. I would think that some crank angle sensor or ignition coil problem would be the cause.
12-03-13, 08:14 PM
#17
Where are you measuring your EGT? right near the exhaust port, before the turbo? After the turbo?
It sure sounds like some fundamental mechanical issue. The maps look fine, but you could set "IGN vs Water T cool" in settings 4 tab to 0 for both boxes instead of 15. I would think that some crank angle sensor or ignition coil problem would be the cause.
It sure sounds like some fundamental mechanical issue. The maps look fine, but you could set "IGN vs Water T cool" in settings 4 tab to 0 for both boxes instead of 15. I would think that some crank angle sensor or ignition coil problem would be the cause.
12-03-13, 10:10 PM
#21
Derwin
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The crank wheel only goes on one way unless it has been altered.
As Ihor noted you could have inversed the pickup senders G and NE. Usually when I have seent hat the car doesn't run.
First thing I would check is the reversal of spark plug wires eg. your trailing wires are on your leading plugs and vice versa. Since you have access to the DL once those things are checked I would take a timing light to verify everything is as it should be.
As Ihor noted you could have inversed the pickup senders G and NE. Usually when I have seent hat the car doesn't run.
First thing I would check is the reversal of spark plug wires eg. your trailing wires are on your leading plugs and vice versa. Since you have access to the DL once those things are checked I would take a timing light to verify everything is as it should be.
12-04-13, 05:13 AM
#22
The crank wheel only goes on one way unless it has been altered.
As Ihor noted you could have inversed the pickup senders G and NE. Usually when I have seent hat the car doesn't run.
First thing I would check is the reversal of spark plug wires eg. your trailing wires are on your leading plugs and vice versa. Since you have access to the DL once those things are checked I would take a timing light to verify everything is as it should be.
As Ihor noted you could have inversed the pickup senders G and NE. Usually when I have seent hat the car doesn't run.
First thing I would check is the reversal of spark plug wires eg. your trailing wires are on your leading plugs and vice versa. Since you have access to the DL once those things are checked I would take a timing light to verify everything is as it should be.
12-05-13, 03:03 PM
#23
I have seen a cracked cast iron do this. For some odd reason the leaking coolant caused the turbo to glow like that. Might have been the coolant delaying the explosion of gases?.. Are you having loss of coolant at all, or hard starting? What is the history of the engine?
BTW I dig your air pump pully, very nice!
BTW I dig your air pump pully, very nice!
12-05-13, 04:22 PM
#24
I have seen a cracked cast iron do this. For some odd reason the leaking coolant caused the turbo to glow like that. Might have been the coolant delaying the explosion of gases?.. Are you having loss of coolant at all, or hard starting? What is the history of the engine?
BTW I dig your air pump pully, very nice!
BTW I dig your air pump pully, very nice!
Thanks!
