Explain how/why aluminum 2-piece pulley set can add 15-22 ponies??
01-21-04, 09:34 AM
#26
2/4 wheel cornering fiend
Originally posted by Kevin T. Wyum
The gains might be a little decieving. If someone saw 15hp gains it sure wasn't on a stock car or anything close to stock. The honest way to list the gain is as a percentage not as a certain HP gain. The point is that a small percentage gain in a 600hp motor will yield some pretty big numbers but will give 300%less in a 200hp motor. You get the point I assume. In cases like this companies test components on very high hp motors to produce distorted gains. A good example would be garbage like those tornado air filter things. If they actually had a test showing a gain it was probably on an 800hp big block and it gained 5hp so they advertise a 5hp gain from using the product. Hype is what sells. Learn to be a cynic : )
Kevin T. Wyum
The gains might be a little decieving. If someone saw 15hp gains it sure wasn't on a stock car or anything close to stock. The honest way to list the gain is as a percentage not as a certain HP gain. The point is that a small percentage gain in a 600hp motor will yield some pretty big numbers but will give 300%less in a 200hp motor. You get the point I assume. In cases like this companies test components on very high hp motors to produce distorted gains. A good example would be garbage like those tornado air filter things. If they actually had a test showing a gain it was probably on an 800hp big block and it gained 5hp so they advertise a 5hp gain from using the product. Hype is what sells. Learn to be a cynic : )
Kevin T. Wyum
01-21-04, 10:19 AM
#27
Tequila? ..it's like beer
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Actually, to turn the water pump slower the water pump & alternator pullies are LARGER. This is what helps with slippage.
If you underdrive the accessories by replacing the main pully then you'll be using a smaller main pully.. but if you replace the accessory pullies then they'd need to be larger to reduse rpms of the accessory.
If you underdrive the accessories by replacing the main pully then you'll be using a smaller main pully.. but if you replace the accessory pullies then they'd need to be larger to reduse rpms of the accessory.
Originally posted by RotorMotor
...... but the kits DECREASE your pully size so would you not get MORE slippage with a removed airpump and pullies?
...
thanks guys! -heath
...... but the kits DECREASE your pully size so would you not get MORE slippage with a removed airpump and pullies?
...
thanks guys! -heath
01-21-04, 10:26 AM
#28
Tequila? ..it's like beer
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For what it's worth...
I picked up a 5 rib belt from K2RD a while ago that fits perfectly with no airpump. Because it's so tight it takes a little oomph to get it on but fits fine.
I picked up a 5 rib belt from K2RD a while ago that fits perfectly with no airpump. Because it's so tight it takes a little oomph to get it on but fits fine.
Originally posted by Flybye
I ditched my airpump, and no freakin 5 rib belt exists which will fit so I had to go down to a 4 rib.
Daddy, can I get a sum Greddy pullies now?
I ditched my airpump, and no freakin 5 rib belt exists which will fit so I had to go down to a 4 rib.
Daddy, can I get a sum Greddy pullies now?
01-21-04, 10:42 AM
#29
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by Kevin T. Wyum
Learn to be a cynic : )
Learn to be a cynic : )
But I already ordered my magnetic fuel line thingy that's going to break down the hydrocarbons in the fuel and increase my gas mileage! 
Only pulley that's going to get you 15-20 hp is if you're changing the one on the end of a supercharger
01-21-04, 11:21 AM
#31
Tenseiga
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i bought the ones off ebay for 60 bucks.
I was very pleased with them and they came with the correct belt.
direct bolt on.
yeah they are bigger so they underdrive and reduce slippage.
I was very pleased with them and they came with the correct belt.
direct bolt on.
yeah they are bigger so they underdrive and reduce slippage.
01-21-04, 11:41 AM
#33
Re: Explain how/why aluminum 2-piece pulley set can add 15-22 ponies??
Originally posted by areXseven
.....As advertised on E-Bay where they're being sold by different sellers. How can this add so much more H/P by just changing them out. Does anyone have data/documentation to support the statement?.
I've e-mailed the seller(s) but no response yet! Thanks.
.....As advertised on E-Bay where they're being sold by different sellers. How can this add so much more H/P by just changing them out. Does anyone have data/documentation to support the statement?.
I've e-mailed the seller(s) but no response yet! Thanks.
15-22 is a complete bald-faced lie, IMO, but how many people put a car on a dyno just to measure the difference made by pullies? That's why they dare put up such crap numbers.
Anyway, the anecdotal data I remember is no more than 5hp on any car with underdriven pullies.
Dave
01-21-04, 11:43 AM
#34
Tenseiga
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I would bet that most of the people who are buying these pulley sets are also polishing underhood components. Bling bling
i did mine for performance/reliability. For 60 bucks it was a good deal. Just like my e-bay mp/dp combo was.
not all ppl are vain
01-21-04, 11:45 AM
#35
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
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AND to add to what dgeesaman just said about 5hp max ever seen......I've seen more than 5rwhp change in HP from one dyno run to the next back to back with NO changes at all.
You can make a dyno say what ever the hell you want it to say
STEPHEN
You can make a dyno say what ever the hell you want it to say
STEPHEN
01-21-04, 11:47 AM
#36
DRIVE THE ROTARY SPORTS
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hehe it was late and i didnt think about it.... i was just like yeah bigger = faster spinning...... hehehe! ok cool, then this is the proper solution to removing the airpump!! now i have 2 questions before i buy one of these sets.... 1. can you forsee any problems with runnning the pump too slow, like at idle? 2. whats all this i hear about the main pully screwing up the balance? if the pully is itself balanced then there should be no problem right? the reason you need a counterweight when getting an aftermarket flywheel is because the counterweight is BUILT INTO the stock one! oh yeah 3. this is for a 20b so im trying to think about the pully layout if this will function the same... i cant remember off the top of my head (maybe this one is a better one for the 20b section)
heath
heath
01-21-04, 11:53 AM
#37
Originally posted by Sesshoumaru
what would make you say that?
i did mine for performance/reliability. For 60 bucks it was a good deal. Just like my e-bay mp/dp combo was.
not all ppl are vain
what would make you say that?
i did mine for performance/reliability. For 60 bucks it was a good deal. Just like my e-bay mp/dp combo was.
not all ppl are vain
01-21-04, 12:03 PM
#38
Glug Glug Glug Burp
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Originally posted by adam c
I would bet that most of the people who are buying these pulley sets are also polishing underhood components. Bling bling
I would bet that most of the people who are buying these pulley sets are also polishing underhood components. Bling bling
01-21-04, 12:06 PM
#39
Glug Glug Glug Burp
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Originally posted by adam c
I said most, not all. I really don't think a pulley kit is going to do much of anything for performance, or reliability. Several have commented that they "look nice".
I said most, not all. I really don't think a pulley kit is going to do much of anything for performance, or reliability. Several have commented that they "look nice".
01-21-04, 12:17 PM
#40
rotary sensei
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Originally posted by DamonB
But I already ordered my magnetic fuel line thingy that's going to break down the hydrocarbons in the fuel and increase my gas mileage!
Only pulley that's going to get you 15-20 hp is if you're changing the one on the end of a supercharger
But I already ordered my magnetic fuel line thingy that's going to break down the hydrocarbons in the fuel and increase my gas mileage! Only pulley that's going to get you 15-20 hp is if you're changing the one on the end of a supercharger
Last edited by Mr rx-7 tt; 01-21-04 at 12:24 PM.
01-21-04, 12:21 PM
#41
rotary sensei
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Originally posted by DamonB
But I already ordered my magnetic fuel line thingy that's going to break down the hydrocarbons in the fuel and increase my gas mileage!
Only pulley that's going to get you 15-20 hp is if you're changing the one on the end of a supercharger
But I already ordered my magnetic fuel line thingy that's going to break down the hydrocarbons in the fuel and increase my gas mileage! Only pulley that's going to get you 15-20 hp is if you're changing the one on the end of a supercharger
01-21-04, 12:36 PM
#42
Lives on the Forum
Jason says "I did about 6 years ago. I think it was 15 RWHP from adding the main pulley."
That doesn't sound very concrete to me. It was 6 years prior and he thinks it was 15 hp? I don't think you can claim victory with that.
As for anyone else I'm not calling them a liar but I have yet to see anyone correct their horsepower figures after dyno runs. As enyone knows you make more power when the air outside is cooler and denser. I can show 15 hp increase on my bone stock Mazda reman just by doing a pull in August and another in January.
That doesn't sound very concrete to me. It was 6 years prior and he thinks it was 15 hp? I don't think you can claim victory with that.
As for anyone else I'm not calling them a liar but I have yet to see anyone correct their horsepower figures after dyno runs. As enyone knows you make more power when the air outside is cooler and denser. I can show 15 hp increase on my bone stock Mazda reman just by doing a pull in August and another in January.
01-21-04, 02:39 PM
#43
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I can't believe that some people here, get their facts from the FAST & FURIOUS.
Yes, "I need 2 bottles of Nitrous....the BIG ONES".
For God's sake, it is the same principle as the flywheel!!!!
These little pulleys don't even compare to the weight change that a lighten flywheel can give you, yet a flywheel gives you NO INCREASE RWHP. It only makes your engine spin easier by not having to fight so much mass inertia.
If the pulley can give you an increase of 15-20 RWHP, we should be able to reproduced it to some extent on well tuned cars under similar environment conditions.
What I'm saying is, that least everyone should notice an increase in RWHP and we don't.
Sorry, it's all hype.
One person claiming this increase with or without hard data(dyno before and aft) is no proof to me.
I have the pulleys and noticed nothing on my butt dyno.
I will admit the "look good factor" can give you 15-20 RWHP.
Damon, we should pack and sell winter air on BIG BOTTLES.
Yes, "I need 2 bottles of Nitrous....the BIG ONES".
For God's sake, it is the same principle as the flywheel!!!!
These little pulleys don't even compare to the weight change that a lighten flywheel can give you, yet a flywheel gives you NO INCREASE RWHP. It only makes your engine spin easier by not having to fight so much mass inertia.
If the pulley can give you an increase of 15-20 RWHP, we should be able to reproduced it to some extent on well tuned cars under similar environment conditions.
What I'm saying is, that least everyone should notice an increase in RWHP and we don't.
Sorry, it's all hype.
One person claiming this increase with or without hard data(dyno before and aft) is no proof to me.
I have the pulleys and noticed nothing on my butt dyno.
I will admit the "look good factor" can give you 15-20 RWHP.
Damon, we should pack and sell winter air on BIG BOTTLES.
Last edited by Radical Rotary Avantgard; 01-21-04 at 02:50 PM.
01-21-04, 02:56 PM
#44
Originally posted by Radical Rotary Avantgard
For God's sake, it is the same principle as the flywheel!!!!
These little pulleys don't even compare to the weight change that a lighten flywheel can give you, yet a flywheel gives you NO INCREASE RWHP. It only makes your engine spin easier by not having to fight so much mass inertia.
For God's sake, it is the same principle as the flywheel!!!!
These little pulleys don't even compare to the weight change that a lighten flywheel can give you, yet a flywheel gives you NO INCREASE RWHP. It only makes your engine spin easier by not having to fight so much mass inertia.
If the engine spins easier, it will turn the driveshaft easier.....etc etc.... which will turn the wheels easier. That means more RWHP. It's not more engine HP, but it does show up at the wheels. Basically, less HP is lost turning everything after the engine.
It's the same principal as lighter rotors. They turn more easily, so the engine puts out more power.
01-21-04, 03:22 PM
#46
Senior Member
lightened pulleys
I'm still gonna get them cause they're pretty.
Seriously- do a search before changing the main drive pulley. Removing the bolt without maintaining pressure/tension on the eccentric shaft will allow the spacers/thrust washer on the other side of the front cover to move and be out of alignment. When you re-assemble the bolt and pulley you will probably not get the thrust washer back in place and it will self destruct and spew metal filings throughout your oil and internals. Then you can assemble the pulley correctly when you rebuild your engine.
Ron A.
Seriously- do a search before changing the main drive pulley. Removing the bolt without maintaining pressure/tension on the eccentric shaft will allow the spacers/thrust washer on the other side of the front cover to move and be out of alignment. When you re-assemble the bolt and pulley you will probably not get the thrust washer back in place and it will self destruct and spew metal filings throughout your oil and internals. Then you can assemble the pulley correctly when you rebuild your engine.
Ron A.
01-21-04, 03:25 PM
#47
Glug Glug Glug Burp
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Re: lightened pulleys
Originally posted by ronarndt
I'm still gonna get them cause they're pretty.
Seriously- do a search before changing the main drive pulley. Removing the bolt without maintaining pressure/tension on the eccentric shaft will allow the spacers/thrust washer on the other side of the front cover to move and be out of alignment. When you re-assemble the bolt and pulley you will probably not get the thrust washer back in place and it will self destruct and spew metal filings throughout your oil and internals. Then you can assemble the pulley correctly when you rebuild your engine.
Ron A.
I'm still gonna get them cause they're pretty.
Seriously- do a search before changing the main drive pulley. Removing the bolt without maintaining pressure/tension on the eccentric shaft will allow the spacers/thrust washer on the other side of the front cover to move and be out of alignment. When you re-assemble the bolt and pulley you will probably not get the thrust washer back in place and it will self destruct and spew metal filings throughout your oil and internals. Then you can assemble the pulley correctly when you rebuild your engine.
Ron A.
It's nice and easy with the motor out... Just lay it down on the clutch.
01-21-04, 04:42 PM
#49
Tenseiga
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the bearing will fall out of place if not done right. Then will not act like a bearing
parasitic losses are reduced - technically u don't increase hp u just free it up.
Flywheel is a bit different in that there is nothing opposing it. This is why no hp is gained b/c none is lost there due to the parasitic loss.
parasitic losses are reduced - technically u don't increase hp u just free it up.
Flywheel is a bit different in that there is nothing opposing it. This is why no hp is gained b/c none is lost there due to the parasitic loss.
