Easiest to install Radiator
11-06-03, 11:01 AM
#26
Blow up or win
Originally posted by academytim
It's not that I won't or can't...it's that it was easier to do the job from the top. Obviously for the other jobs you just mentioned...it is impossible to do from the top, so i would NEED to do it from the bottom. But if I have a choice between working on the car when it is on the ground...or crawling under it while its on factory jacks...I will pick from the top every time. And it was the rolling eyes icon that kind of pissed me off. It would have been different if he just stated his different opinion...but he had to do it in a sarcastic way. So yes, he is a jackass.
(by the way...with the pump you can remove every ounce of coolant from the top of the car...all you have to do is connect the pump to the small hose that goes to the AST that is on the bottom of the radiator. The pump will pull the fluid from the bottom of the radiator...thus emptying the entire system. So that is how I will change my coolant from the top)
It's not that I won't or can't...it's that it was easier to do the job from the top. Obviously for the other jobs you just mentioned...it is impossible to do from the top, so i would NEED to do it from the bottom. But if I have a choice between working on the car when it is on the ground...or crawling under it while its on factory jacks...I will pick from the top every time. And it was the rolling eyes icon that kind of pissed me off. It would have been different if he just stated his different opinion...but he had to do it in a sarcastic way. So yes, he is a jackass.
(by the way...with the pump you can remove every ounce of coolant from the top of the car...all you have to do is connect the pump to the small hose that goes to the AST that is on the bottom of the radiator. The pump will pull the fluid from the bottom of the radiator...thus emptying the entire system. So that is how I will change my coolant from the top)
A new set of AC lines is $800.00....
....and you are probably the only person in the entire world that would spend the money to BUY a pump to allow you to evacuate the coolant (not to mention the extra time it takes) - when gravity does it for free in about 30 seconds.
I reiterate:
And since you insist on justifying your backasswards shade tree mechanic approach to turning a relatively simple job into a freakin' nightmare I'll have to add one more icon:
But I won't resort to name calling.
11-06-03, 11:20 AM
#27
Originally posted by clayne
Don't even waste your time with Mazdacomp or Fluidyne, get the Koyo. Bigger core, and that matters much more than fitment issues.
Fitment issues are minor. If you're modifying your car, learn to deal with these minor issues - otherwise you're just going to be doing bolt-on's like every other joe blow. If you never jump in and deal with problems, it surely won't help your mechanical ability.
Don't even waste your time with Mazdacomp or Fluidyne, get the Koyo. Bigger core, and that matters much more than fitment issues.
Fitment issues are minor. If you're modifying your car, learn to deal with these minor issues - otherwise you're just going to be doing bolt-on's like every other joe blow. If you never jump in and deal with problems, it surely won't help your mechanical ability.
A lot of people have the Koyo, which is a bolt on by the way.
Joe Blow Fluidyne
11-06-03, 12:01 PM
#28
Originally posted by CYM TKT
yep
yep
I installed the Koyo and it was not a simple drop in. I had to bend the AC lines and put in some spacers to move the condensor out a bit. I also had to trim a plastic thing to get it to sit lower.
I think the reason there's some conflicting information about hte Koyo is that whether or not you still have the stock airbox and plastic bits or not makes a difference. I think if you have an aftermarket intake you can let the radiator not lean as far forward. I still have the stock airbox so I tried to get it to sit as low as possible (close to stock).
11-06-03, 12:15 PM
#29
Blow up or win
Originally posted by clayne
Don't even waste your time with Mazdacomp or Fluidyne, get the Koyo. Bigger core, and that matters much more than fitment issues.
Fitment issues are minor. If you're modifying your car, learn to deal with these minor issues - otherwise you're just going to be doing bolt-on's like every other joe blow. If you never jump in and deal with problems, it surely won't help your mechanical ability.
Don't even waste your time with Mazdacomp or Fluidyne, get the Koyo. Bigger core, and that matters much more than fitment issues.
Fitment issues are minor. If you're modifying your car, learn to deal with these minor issues - otherwise you're just going to be doing bolt-on's like every other joe blow. If you never jump in and deal with problems, it surely won't help your mechanical ability.
A thicker core is going to perform better for continual high speed use or for highly modded (over 300hp) cars at any speed.
For around town driving a thinner core is actually more efficient, as is a copper and brass radiator over aluminum.
Lots of guys that autocross use the stocker with no problem, that is, of course until the plastic end tanks fail.
11-06-03, 01:06 PM
#30
Originally posted by RonKMiller
And since you insist on justifying your backasswards shade tree mechanic approach to turning a relatively simple job into a freakin' nightmare I'll have to add one more icon:
But I won't resort to name calling.
And since you insist on justifying your backasswards shade tree mechanic approach to turning a relatively simple job into a freakin' nightmare I'll have to add one more icon:
But I won't resort to name calling.
Wow, a freaking nightmare job that I did relatively easily. Keep jerkin it jackass.
11-06-03, 01:17 PM
#31
By the way, I have no problem with your opinion. I respect that you feel it is easier to do from the bottom. The only problem I have is with your sarcastic attitude. You may as well go ahead and accept that not everyone is going to agree with everything you have to say. But acting like a highschooler when someone doesn't agree with you isn't the way to go. So that being said, I apologize for calling you a jackass. Just try to accept other peoples opinions, or at least respect their opinions. Even if they disagree with yours.
11-06-03, 01:53 PM
#32
Blow up or win
Originally posted by academytim
By the way, I have no problem with your opinion. I respect that you feel it is easier to do from the bottom. The only problem I have is with your sarcastic attitude. You may as well go ahead and accept that not everyone is going to agree with everything you have to say. But acting like a highschooler when someone doesn't agree with you isn't the way to go. So that being said, I apologize for calling you a jackass. Just try to accept other peoples opinions, or at least respect their opinions. Even if they disagree with yours.
By the way, I have no problem with your opinion. I respect that you feel it is easier to do from the bottom. The only problem I have is with your sarcastic attitude. You may as well go ahead and accept that not everyone is going to agree with everything you have to say. But acting like a highschooler when someone doesn't agree with you isn't the way to go. So that being said, I apologize for calling you a jackass. Just try to accept other peoples opinions, or at least respect their opinions. Even if they disagree with yours.
11-06-03, 02:01 PM
#33
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by RonKMiller
Lots of guys that autocross use the stocker with no problem, that is, of course until the plastic end tanks fail.
Lots of guys that autocross use the stocker with no problem, that is, of course until the plastic end tanks fail.
My original started leaking at the endtank so I put another stocker in (my class of racing mandates stock radiators). Did the radiator from the bottom; simple. If doing it from the top you'll have to remove the airbox, intercooler and duct, battery and tray.
Doing it from the bottom you drop the belly pan, drop the sway bar mounts (no need to actually remove the bar from the mounts), drop the a/c condenser by removing the brackets and then slip the radiator out the bottom towards the back of the car. Piece-o-cake.
11-14-03, 04:04 PM
#38
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Here's a new one...
I am replacing my radiator and my radiator guy is offering to get one from CSF imports, OEM, for $240. (see CSFimports.com) .. that seems cheap! has anyone ever tried this. My Rx is not really modified at all except for a new engine from Rx7.com in Garland Texas.
??
I am replacing my radiator and my radiator guy is offering to get one from CSF imports, OEM, for $240. (see CSFimports.com) .. that seems cheap! has anyone ever tried this. My Rx is not really modified at all except for a new engine from Rx7.com in Garland Texas.
??
11-14-03, 05:31 PM
#40
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Originally posted by pkwan_pharmd
Here's a new one...
I am replacing my radiator and my radiator guy is offering to get one from CSF imports, OEM, for $240. (see CSFimports.com) .. that seems cheap! has anyone ever tried this. My Rx is not really modified at all except for a new engine from Rx7.com in Garland Texas.
??
Here's a new one...
I am replacing my radiator and my radiator guy is offering to get one from CSF imports, OEM, for $240. (see CSFimports.com) .. that seems cheap! has anyone ever tried this. My Rx is not really modified at all except for a new engine from Rx7.com in Garland Texas.
??
11-14-03, 05:50 PM
#41
No it's not Turbo'd
What is this about thinner is better !?
I've read a lot of your threads and respect your position (RonKMiller) on a lot of things, but 'd have to disagree with you here... The more Alluminim Surface area the more heat can be dissapated in a given time increment... The more Air you get through the core, the faster this process moves, so Bigger Core + Bigger Fans = Better Cooling (Not to mention more fluid = more time before the same water molecule sees the water Jacket of the engine again), how do you come to the conclusion that a smaller core will serve you better ?
-DC
I've read a lot of your threads and respect your position (RonKMiller) on a lot of things, but 'd have to disagree with you here... The more Alluminim Surface area the more heat can be dissapated in a given time increment... The more Air you get through the core, the faster this process moves, so Bigger Core + Bigger Fans = Better Cooling (Not to mention more fluid = more time before the same water molecule sees the water Jacket of the engine again), how do you come to the conclusion that a smaller core will serve you better ?
-DC
Last edited by DCrosby; 11-14-03 at 05:53 PM.
11-14-03, 05:51 PM
#42
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by FormerPorscheGuy
It is totally inadequate for even a stock car, especially in the Texas heat.
It is totally inadequate for even a stock car, especially in the Texas heat.
11-14-03, 05:57 PM
#43
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by DCrosby
how do you come to the conclusion that a smaller core will serve you better ?
how do you come to the conclusion that a smaller core will serve you better ?
Certainly not in this thread?I don't think that aftermarket radiators don't outperform the stocker, I just think that for stock horsepower the stock radiator is not nearly as poor as everyone insists.
Like I said, I daily drive and race mine all the time with the stock radiator. I did have an endtank leak (well, it was 10 years old!) so I put in another stocker. My coolant temps are fine with the Miata thermoswitch and the inlet sides blocked. The addition of the splitter has seemed to bring me lower temps than even the aluminum radiator people are seeing.
*edit* Oops, looks like you meant RonKMiller
There is certainly a point reached where a thicker core does not help you and in fact becomes a hinderance. The air must flow THROUGH the core, and if it cannot get through the thick core easily you are losing efficiency. What the optimum core thickness is I don't know.
Last edited by DamonB; 11-14-03 at 05:59 PM.
11-14-03, 07:38 PM
#44
Blow up or win
Originally posted by DCrosby
What is this about thinner is better !?
I've read a lot of your threads and respect your position (RonKMiller) on a lot of things, but 'd have to disagree with you here... The more Alluminim Surface area the more heat can be dissapated in a given time increment... The more Air you get through the core, the faster this process moves, so Bigger Core + Bigger Fans = Better Cooling (Not to mention more fluid = more time before the same water molecule sees the water Jacket of the engine again), how do you come to the conclusion that a smaller core will serve you better ?
-DC
What is this about thinner is better !?
I've read a lot of your threads and respect your position (RonKMiller) on a lot of things, but 'd have to disagree with you here... The more Alluminim Surface area the more heat can be dissapated in a given time increment... The more Air you get through the core, the faster this process moves, so Bigger Core + Bigger Fans = Better Cooling (Not to mention more fluid = more time before the same water molecule sees the water Jacket of the engine again), how do you come to the conclusion that a smaller core will serve you better ?
-DC
*Everyone* thinks that if it is:
A) Thicker
B) Shinier
C) More Expensive
D) Because everyone else does it
that is it "BETTER".
My point is simple: For everyday driving - which 99% of us do - the stock radiator design, with the exception of the plastic end tanks, is MORE than adequate if you are running less than 300 RWHP. If you are racing or are heavily modded (which you ARE if you are racing, with the exception of OEM mandated classes like the one DamonB competes in) you NEED a bigger, thicker radiator - and the 2 lb. weight savings vs. a cheapy copper and brass unit is indeed important to a racer.
Thicker cores require more airflow to perform the way they were designed, which requires significantly more speed. At slow speeds (once again where 99% of us drive) they are less efficient.
If you toss in a thicker core, without a corresponding amount of extraction (like a vented hood or my hot air out mod) in order to ALLOW it to perform, you have just wasted alot of money.
Aftermarket producers depend on the combined myths of "thicker, shinier, more expensive, everyone is doing it" in order to promote sales of a VERY profitable item.
And without getting into a long scientific dissertation - copper and brass are MUCH more efficient at dissipating heat than aluminum.
Almost EVERY cooling issue with an FD3S has absolutely nothing to do with the radiator - its just an easy target, and every time someone "redesigns" the front of their car with an aftermarket lip, new bumper, FMIC, etc. they are most likely hindering airflow through the radiator and engine room. Badabing, cooling problems.
Don't be sucked in by marketing and hype... that's my message.
Last edited by RonKMiller; 11-14-03 at 07:47 PM.
11-14-03, 07:59 PM
#45
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Originally posted by RonKMiller
Thicker cores require more airflow to perform the way they were designed, which requires significantly more speed. At slow speeds (once again where 99% of us drive) they are less efficient.
If you toss in a thicker core, without a corresponding amount of extraction (like a vented hood or my hot air out mod) in order to ALLOW it to perform, you have just wasted alot of money.
Aftermarket producers depend on the combined myths of "thicker, shinier, more expensive, everyone is doing it" in order to promote sales of a VERY profitable item.
Thicker cores require more airflow to perform the way they were designed, which requires significantly more speed. At slow speeds (once again where 99% of us drive) they are less efficient.
If you toss in a thicker core, without a corresponding amount of extraction (like a vented hood or my hot air out mod) in order to ALLOW it to perform, you have just wasted alot of money.
Aftermarket producers depend on the combined myths of "thicker, shinier, more expensive, everyone is doing it" in order to promote sales of a VERY profitable item.
The FD coolant system and front end combination work on a the principles of ram air to cool the radiator while the vehicle is in motion. While the car is moving air will flow into the radiator and cool the car. The more air that flows into your radiator the cooler it will get. This is why Mazda saw better cooling with the wider openings found on later front ends. Thicker radiators offer more surface area for the coolant to disperse heat. A bigger radiator will lower temperatures faster then a stock radiator while the vehicle is in motion because of the increased surface area.
DamonB saw better cooling with his front lip because he increased the airflow into his radiator while his car was in motion.
A lot of us see better cooling though the increased surface area offered by a larger capacity radiator.
11-14-03, 08:04 PM
#46
Blow up or win
Originally posted by pkwan_pharmd
Here's a new one...
I am replacing my radiator and my radiator guy is offering to get one from CSF imports, OEM, for $240. (see CSFimports.com) .. that seems cheap! has anyone ever tried this. My Rx is not really modified at all except for a new engine from Rx7.com in Garland Texas.
??
Here's a new one...
I am replacing my radiator and my radiator guy is offering to get one from CSF imports, OEM, for $240. (see CSFimports.com) .. that seems cheap! has anyone ever tried this. My Rx is not really modified at all except for a new engine from Rx7.com in Garland Texas.
??
OEM is a single row aluminum, this is a 2 row copper and brass. It weighs 2 lbs. more - big deal.
He's probably paying about $150 (or less).
I have one in my FD3S and I live in Tucson. I run cool ALL the time. It works just great.
Here's one big caution on this unit - the metal postioning dowels on the bottom of the tank can be screwed up - as in too wide for the corresponding OEM brackets. Make sure they are centered in the middle of the brackets when mounted, and get new OEM rubber insulating grommets for a couple of bucks. The unit needs to "float". If it is clamped in place rigidly by the brackets it will fail in no time due to vibration and the resulting stress fractures. You will also have two extra nipples on the bottom that need to be capped with METAL, not rubber.
Make sure to put on new hoses if they are more than a couple of years old - cheap insurance against leaks.
Don't even think of using worm clamps, use only OEM.
Be cool.
11-14-03, 08:17 PM
#47
Blow up or win
Originally posted by FormerPorscheGuy
When cooling an FD you have to look at two things, coolant surface area of your radiator and airflow into the radiator through the nose. You will have better cooling when you improve either of these.
The FD coolant system and front end combination work on a the principles of ram air to cool the radiator while the vehicle is in motion. While the car is moving air will flow into the radiator and cool the car. The more air that flows into your radiator the cooler it will get. This is why Mazda saw better cooling with the wider openings found on later front ends. Thicker radiators offer more surface area for the coolant to disperse heat. A bigger radiator will lower temperatures faster then a stock radiator while the vehicle is in motion because of the increased surface area.
DamonB saw better cooling with his front lip because he increased the airflow into his radiator while his car was in motion.
A lot of us see better cooling though the increased surface area offered by a larger capacity radiator.
When cooling an FD you have to look at two things, coolant surface area of your radiator and airflow into the radiator through the nose. You will have better cooling when you improve either of these.
The FD coolant system and front end combination work on a the principles of ram air to cool the radiator while the vehicle is in motion. While the car is moving air will flow into the radiator and cool the car. The more air that flows into your radiator the cooler it will get. This is why Mazda saw better cooling with the wider openings found on later front ends. Thicker radiators offer more surface area for the coolant to disperse heat. A bigger radiator will lower temperatures faster then a stock radiator while the vehicle is in motion because of the increased surface area.
DamonB saw better cooling with his front lip because he increased the airflow into his radiator while his car was in motion.
A lot of us see better cooling though the increased surface area offered by a larger capacity radiator.
11-14-03, 08:27 PM
#48
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Originally posted by RonKMiller
You also need to look at a 3rd factor: the amount of air exiting the engine room over any given period of time. Its "garbage in, garbage out". By utilizing the existing NACA ducts on the sides or a vented hood you are literally "sucking" air out at a faster rate - and improving efficiency by allowing more air to flow past the fins of the radiator core. Not to mention the intercooler.
You also need to look at a 3rd factor: the amount of air exiting the engine room over any given period of time. Its "garbage in, garbage out". By utilizing the existing NACA ducts on the sides or a vented hood you are literally "sucking" air out at a faster rate - and improving efficiency by allowing more air to flow past the fins of the radiator core. Not to mention the intercooler.
11-14-03, 08:30 PM
#49
Blow up or win
Originally posted by FormerPorscheGuy
That's what I said. You either increase airflow into your radiator or you increase the cooling surface area of your radiator. By venting your hood you suck air out at a faster rate which correspondingly increases airflow through your radiator.
That's what I said. You either increase airflow into your radiator or you increase the cooling surface area of your radiator. By venting your hood you suck air out at a faster rate which correspondingly increases airflow through your radiator.
11-14-03, 08:32 PM
#50
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Originally posted by RonKMiller
You can buy the same unit (Cooling and System Flexibles) for $175.00 plus shipping from RadiatorExpress.com. It is NOT OEM or even close.
OEM is a single row aluminum, this is a 2 row copper and brass. It weighs 2 lbs. more - big deal.
You can buy the same unit (Cooling and System Flexibles) for $175.00 plus shipping from RadiatorExpress.com. It is NOT OEM or even close.
OEM is a single row aluminum, this is a 2 row copper and brass. It weighs 2 lbs. more - big deal.