FDTT19

My Mechanic Jesse has this type of setup on his FD, his reason and idea to do it was based off the idea that this way he could have a huge front mount intercooler without blocking air flow to the raidiator. IMO this setup seems and appears to be ideal because when you just have a front mount, your coolant temps tend to be higher with less air getting to the rad, or if you have a standard mount intercooler the intake temps are higher. Jesse's temps are by far the best I've ever seen on an FD, his power fc almost always reads low 80c's for coolants and under 30c's for intakes on hot days, cooler days the temps are always better. I can try to get Jesse to join in the thread and answer some questions, and his temps honestly might be even better then that but I can't remember them off the top of my head since its not my car.

Kento

It's not really "ideal", because with a FMIC (and a "huge" one at that) you're adding a substantial amount of intake volume that contributes to lag. With a V-mount, you're keeping that IC tubing to a minimum.

seven lust

iTrader: (5)

^+1 to that... shorter piping the better.

FDTT19

The piping is still very short, no increase in lag there, plus he's still running the sequential twins. He actually has the intercooler set up more like a v-mount versus straight in the front like a front, I'll see what I can do for pics to explain that better. FYI, it is the "ideal" set up, and Dave at KDR is another person who has been looking into this type of set up for a while.

Kento

While I admire the OP's initiative in taking on this project, I see a ton of work with very little payoff; even discounting the amount of effort involved, there are very few actual advantages by switching the coolant/oil heat exchanger position over a standard V-mount setup. That makes it far from "ideal" from my viewpoint.

FDTT19

I get what you're saying and for the record there is a big difference between the set up my friend has and the OP, just the idea and concept are the same.

FDTT19

He's talking about my friend Jesse

airborne

It works.

I did 2 things:
I wired up the stock R6 fans per dubulup's instructions and bolted them down.
Fixed the high idle by propping open the fast idle cam per the robinette site. Dunno what messed that thing up. Maybe the new setup fubars the coolant to the TB? I'll be bypassing that anyway.

The high today was 90 and by the time the car warmed up it was 95 on top of my toolbox. 100+ by the intake. My pfc is set to turn the fans on at 89C and with dubulup's setup it did just that. Lowered the temp to 88C where it stayed for 15 minutes. The fans never shut off and the temp never moved. I used no floor fan and this was in a 1 car garage with the car in nose first. Air temps slowly crept to mid 50s.

I have video to follow. You can hear the fans are loud as anything and they do move a lot of air for their size. The one big thing I think I can do to improve their performance is move the coolant and washer reservoirs. They basically make a wall 2 inches behind each fan. Because of that the fans were basically recirculating the same hot air around the rads. In the front, out the back, up the reservoirs, over the top and back in the front.

I don't have my oil temp gauge hooked up yet but the pressure was steady at 30psi with 5w30 dino.

Thanks Kento for the admiration and the earlier advice. You are darn right this was a ton of work, with substantial cutting involved. I wanted to do this because i thought it was a cool idea, it was different and i believed it was cheaper money wise. Though not time wise obviously. Though KDR talked about this being a kit and doing standard installs for $2k I don't ever see this being as common as regular v-mounts are right now.

But I do get to design in my own cool stuff. Like play with the angle of the OC, adding a splitter, etc. And my 2 big practical benefits: no more 2in x 6in duct for my massive IC and using the AC without taxing the cooling system.

let me dl this video and see if i have the space for it online

seven lust

iTrader: (5)

thats great news I was really pulling for you to get this thing to work. The time you put into it, and your last post was such a bummer. I felt a little bad for you. I am glad to hear you got it worked out although I think there will still be a little tweaking of things, but so far so good. pat your self on the back .

airborne

Definitely tweaking like moving the reservoirs (relatively easy) and firming up mounting. And building splitter. But knowing that it should work makes it easy.

thanks a mill 7lust, i felt physically ill that night!

FDTT19

I don't believe there was much cutting at all in my friends set up.

airborne

Here is a 1MB/1min WMV of the car running at 88C, which is what the PFC reads at the end though it's not very clear.
right click, save as

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeopw2w/s...files/1meg.wmv

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

re: Fan Control
I'm not exactly sure how the PFC controls the fans , but although most ECUs will allow you to set the fan turn-on temperature, the fan won't usually turn off until the temps decrease past that temperature by a certain amount. For instance, with a different ECU that I'm familiar with, if you set the fans to activate at 190F it will turn them on at 190F and off at 180F. This is to prevent the fans from switching on and off all the time (because switching on uses a lot of electrical power: notice the headlights will sometimes dim when the fans turn on).


re: Thermostat & Coolant Flow
If you're using the OEM thermostat, it's not fully open until 95C so you're not seeing 100% coolant flow (which means you're not using your radiators to their full capability) below that temperature. The OEM thermostat is closed around 82C, so no matter what your fans are doing, there won't be enough coolant flowing through the motor to cool the car down to 80C. Assuming your PFC is trying to wait until 80C to turn the fans off, this is why the fans never turn off.

re: duplicating someone else's setup
Ask your friend about thermostats, I'd bet he's drilled his or replaced it with a different model if he's seeing 80.0 C after the car has warmed up.




In summary: I'd bet that if you increase the fan activation temps to 95C, they will turn off at 85-90C. I remember someone else experienced this problem with the PFC, I'm sure you can find it if you search for [/i]PFC fan activation temp[/i].



Good Luck,
-s-

EFS.O

Regarding the washer reservoir, i would suggest you to find one from a european version and install it.European Fd's have it in the trunk and it carries the water for the front wipers + rear wiper + lights.

airborne

scotty-not sure who you're referring to, but i don't know anyone seeing 80C water temps. that's not even warmed up. also, you're probably right regarding the fan activation temp. i don't have a datalogit to change it though, i asked KDR to use their's and take care of it.

EFS.0-you just gave me a great idea. in the US some FDs have a rear wiper with a pump and reservoir that is separate from the front. i could probably plumb the water to the front and use that. heck, i did that before to use it as an IC spray so i can just hook it up. thanks a mill!

FDTT-i had to cut the 'shelf' where the stock oil coolers mount up. i didn't like the idea of the rads hanging below the bottom of the stock bumper and that cutting was necessary to mount them higher. now there is just enough room for the headlights to close. also, i wouldn't be surprised if my AC system exploded. i did more bending than i wanted to

dubulup

looks like your finger nail is getting better!

I like the view thru the nose of the car...IC and OC fully exposed, this should have phenomenal perform while moving.

regarding the Fans not turning off...I believe scotty305 is right, adjust the temp range.

now get the car on the road and some moving data!

airborne

It's amazing how the human body can remember what it's supposed to look like. There's still bits of airborne on that phillips head too.

I'm fairly confident that with the reservoirs changed up, and the car not in a garage, the fans will cool enough to shut off the fans as is. Even in 95deg temps. Thats the next challenge for the setup.

And since it seems the car is perfectly fine without any airflow through the nose I'll probably lay the OC a little flatter to flow more to the IC. Also you can see there is room to the left of the OC for some ducting directed at the intake.

thanks a mill for all your help dubulup. i would of blown the car up trying to wire up the fans.

FDTT19

I'll call Jesse tonight and see if he can get on this thread, I know he used different radiators then the ones you used, he was a rotorfest last yr, i was not, did you see his car (silver r2).

Narfle

iTrader: (16)

Without commenting on the set up itself you have proven what someone with the right mindset can accomplish regardless of mechanical ability.

NissanConvert

iTrader: (1)

I just thought of something- why not use the R1 or R6 radiators as oil coolers in a traditional dual oil cooler configuration. wire the fans in to the OE fan harness so that when water temps go up the oil cooler fans come on too.

EDIT: or you could include an additional thermo-switch and have them come on whenever.

airborne

Off the top of my head radiators as oil coolers don't seem like a good idea. R6 cooling systems run at 17psi, we see oil pressure as high as 120psi. Plus the fittings aren't right and would be insane to fab. The oulets on the R6 rads are pressed in not welded. Fitment is tough too. But if it was a real problem i'd recommend these fans, they're the best i've seen for this size. And i went through 3 or 4 different fans for my IC.

Took the day off to work on the car today. Got the AC condenser positioned. I'm using the lower radiator supports for the condenser and rigged up the front. Also removed the wiper fluid resevoir. It was a little cooler today but still 90F in the car hole. Fans knocked it down to 87C (189F) today, which is about as low as I'd like. They still hadn't turned off, probably should up the PFC fan temp.

The hardest thing left will be getting the undertrays back on. After that I still need to install the oil gauges and headlights. I don't even count putting the bumper back on since it takes me like 2 minutes after practicing so much.

dubulup

damn, great [amateur] minds think alike

I'm playing hookie as well...and working on the undertrays and bumper. The one thing that caught me by surprise, is my oil cooler fittings/hoses under my head lamps...The head lamps have these shroud pieces that stick out to form to the bumper cover when up; when I test fitted everything I neglected to install these...First attempt, both headlights didn't close all the way. Thank goodness just a little maneuvering got it straighten out. And I thought, good thing I can reach the fittings on the oil coolers thru the park lamp holes...so I didn't have to remove the bumper again and after I buttoned the entire bumper back on, I remembered I ordered the extension duct for my IC...it arrives tomorrow

now, I'm going have a beer and fit the three undertrays and R1 lip...it's almost an assembled car again (but then I'll have to take the front off again...maybe I'll wait until the break in period is over)

airborne

Nice. Did you happen to take off tomorrow too? I only have one beer in the fridge after the night i shot that video. Might have to make a run.

Now you have me nervous about that same part on the headlight. But I guess you're issue was that the fittings come out of the top of the cooler? Glad it was an easy fix, you deserve a few more. How's the clutch?

I have some spare headlight parts if you need em. One (or both) of my motors burnt out and i bought a pair from a good forum member.

dubulup

looking at your pictures...you shouldn't have an issue with the headlights. My outside OC hoses were hitting the shroud.

RE: Clutch; power bleeder (and Ate Super Blue) is arriving Monday...as I leave on a biz trip for up to 7+ days.

Undertrays are on! IC is in powder coat...reinstall, then bleed clutch, and hopefully I'll be back in action! It's been awhile since I've seen my FD in one piece and on the ground...this is getting exciting.

(I'm going to work tomorrow...I only work half days on Friday, not much gets done...so it's not really work, ha!)

Kento

A heat exchanger designed for low viscous fluids like water/coolant and one for highly viscous liquids like motor oil are not the same. The passages inside the plates of an oil cooler have to be much larger to allow sufficient flow.