Dual Oil Coolers...thermostat required?
10-03-11, 11:03 PM
#28
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It also has a lot to do with simply having the space available to work on a car.
When you live in a country where you can open your window and touch your neighbors house it makes you appreciate having somewhere to work on your car
A huge part of the Japanese economy is buying a new car every 2-3 years, typically paid for by the Japanese "bonus" system provided by their jobs. It's rare to see cars on the road that are 5 years or older.
When you live in a country where you can open your window and touch your neighbors house it makes you appreciate having somewhere to work on your car
A huge part of the Japanese economy is buying a new car every 2-3 years, typically paid for by the Japanese "bonus" system provided by their jobs. It's rare to see cars on the road that are 5 years or older.
10-03-11, 11:43 PM
#29
I wouldn't really use what people do in Japan as a justification for anything. The price of a new engine is the same as a set of tires, and you pay more for shaken every two years than the engine is probably worth, and finally the cost of parking each year is probably at least double the price of an engine. Once you add up the costs of owning an FD in Japan an engine is right next to an air freshener on the list. They just don't care what happens to the engine, they pay other people to work on it anyway so it really doesn't matter because they didn't invest blood sweat and tears into the build. The Japanese people who do pick up a wrench most often don't get past simple maintenance like spark plugs and if they try to go further it usually ends very very badly. Being a mechanic here is something along the lines of being a dentist in a western country. It's someone you pay tons of money to and you hate them all the same but there is a respect for their dark mysterious art. Your typical American housewife probably has more mechanical skills than your typical Japanese drifter. It's just something you don't do here. You either drive cars, or you work on them.
Wow. I know this is one guy's point of view, but it mostly explains a burning (to me) question I've always had... why aren't there Japanese people on car forums for Japanese cars.
10-05-11, 10:32 PM
#31
i was considering figuring out a way to run lines out of the OEM thermostats into aftermarket cores
so basically replacing only the cores themselves, that way both oil coolers will have dedicated thermostats...
any thoughts??
10-05-11, 11:28 PM
#32
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yup i scored a set of good condition R1 coolers for a real good price so i went with those
i was considering figuring out a way to run lines out of the OEM thermostats into aftermarket cores
so basically replacing only the cores themselves, that way both oil coolers will have dedicated thermostats...
any thoughts??
i was considering figuring out a way to run lines out of the OEM thermostats into aftermarket cores
so basically replacing only the cores themselves, that way both oil coolers will have dedicated thermostats...
any thoughts??
IDK why people are trying to go back and fourth on this... you need a thermostat, its about $150 from mocal. Deal with it. Are people really this broke (and ignorant) that they want to argue about cutting out an essential component of the oil cooling system?
These poor cars don't stand a chance in the hands of the "current owner population"
10-06-11, 12:15 AM
#33
VJ, I ran stock R1 oil coolers on my rotary track car for 2 years, without proper ducting(as it would of taken my oil temps out of optimal range... one duct, one without) without issue. I had purchased the R Magic oil cooler ducts but never needed them. They do look better though. That's never dropping below prob. 4500rpm's for 20-30 minutes at a time. That was at places like Barber and Road Atlanta in July with temperatures in the low 100's. I don't think a street car that occasionally sees a full throttle pull will have an oil temp issue... even in South Florida. If it is, you probably have another underlying issue.
Several other factors play into your cooling as you know. I was single turbo, no ac, no ps, 99spec front bumper(dropped oil temps as much as 20 degrees F). I also ran a T78, which is only oil cooled. It is old technology, but it was an intentional move as I didn't want my coolant going through the extremely hot turbo if the oil was capable of cooling it. Oil and Coolant temp have a correlation between each other and my decisions on combo worked for me.
On my street FD, the dual oil coolers have been fine the last 11 years. Still sequential, AC, PS, etc...
If you are wanting to upgrade the stock system, upgrade the lines to SS. You can adapt the stock oil coolers to use SS braided lines by using a M22-10AN adapter(that PN is off the top of my head) at the oil coolers. You fabricate a couple of brackets to hold the lines, and you are good. That is what I did with my V8 FD and it turned out great. I have some pictures of the lines, adapters, fittings, and brackets in my build thread... but I know several other forum members have done the same.
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10-06-11, 08:57 PM
#35
Question... where do you mount the thermostat??
Do you mount it in such a way that the flow is always going through one oil cooler and when it gets hot... it opens to allow flow to the other?
OR
In a way that it doesnt open until it reaches operating temperture or a bit hotter and it opens to flow through both..
meaning... do you attach the thermostat to the pedestal and front cover? or oil cooler to front cover?
Do you mount it in such a way that the flow is always going through one oil cooler and when it gets hot... it opens to allow flow to the other?
OR
In a way that it doesnt open until it reaches operating temperture or a bit hotter and it opens to flow through both..
meaning... do you attach the thermostat to the pedestal and front cover? or oil cooler to front cover?
10-06-11, 09:43 PM
#36
That's literally not possible if you understand how the FD coolers are set up. Look at the pictures that Scrub posted... the thermostats are ON the coolers.
IDK why people are trying to go back and fourth on this... you need a thermostat, its about $150 from mocal. Deal with it. Are people really this broke (and ignorant) that they want to argue about cutting out an essential component of the oil cooling system? These poor cars don't stand a chance in the hands of the "current owner population"
IDK why people are trying to go back and fourth on this... you need a thermostat, its about $150 from mocal. Deal with it. Are people really this broke (and ignorant) that they want to argue about cutting out an essential component of the oil cooling system?
These poor cars don't stand a chance in the hands of the "current owner population"and for that matter...a lot of people find more cost effective ways to modify cars so that they have more money in pockets as well for other parts for the car
im a 20 year old college student...so saving a couple hundred bucks here and there is welcome
and besides, its not just $150 i'd be saving...normally to install dual aftermarket oil coolers you'd have to buy the cores, the lines, the fittings, and the thermostat...thats looking at a good $400-$500 at least
by just replacing the cores with some adapters to utilize the stock thermostats, its a lot less stuff i need to buy
10-06-11, 09:45 PM
#37
Agree all Rich. Didn't mean to imply otherwise. My implication was that the stock R1's are more than suffcient, IMHO... especially if funds are tight.
VJ, I ran stock R1 oil coolers on my rotary track car for 2 years, without proper ducting(as it would of taken my oil temps out of optimal range... one duct, one without) without issue. I had purchased the R Magic oil cooler ducts but never needed them. They do look better though. That's never dropping below prob. 4500rpm's for 20-30 minutes at a time. That was at places like Barber and Road Atlanta in July with temperatures in the low 100's. I don't think a street car that occasionally sees a full throttle pull will have an oil temp issue... even in South Florida. If it is, you probably have another underlying issue.
Several other factors play into your cooling as you know. I was single turbo, no ac, no ps, 99spec front bumper(dropped oil temps as much as 20 degrees F). I also ran a T78, which is only oil cooled. It is old technology, but it was an intentional move as I didn't want my coolant going through the extremely hot turbo if the oil was capable of cooling it. Oil and Coolant temp have a correlation between each other and my decisions on combo worked for me.
On my street FD, the dual oil coolers have been fine the last 11 years. Still sequential, AC, PS, etc...
If you are wanting to upgrade the stock system, upgrade the lines to SS. You can adapt the stock oil coolers to use SS braided lines by using a M22-10AN adapter(that PN is off the top of my head) at the oil coolers. You fabricate a couple of brackets to hold the lines, and you are good. That is what I did with my V8 FD and it turned out great. I have some pictures of the lines, adapters, fittings, and brackets in my build thread... but I know several other forum members have done the same.
VJ, I ran stock R1 oil coolers on my rotary track car for 2 years, without proper ducting(as it would of taken my oil temps out of optimal range... one duct, one without) without issue. I had purchased the R Magic oil cooler ducts but never needed them. They do look better though. That's never dropping below prob. 4500rpm's for 20-30 minutes at a time. That was at places like Barber and Road Atlanta in July with temperatures in the low 100's. I don't think a street car that occasionally sees a full throttle pull will have an oil temp issue... even in South Florida. If it is, you probably have another underlying issue.
Several other factors play into your cooling as you know. I was single turbo, no ac, no ps, 99spec front bumper(dropped oil temps as much as 20 degrees F). I also ran a T78, which is only oil cooled. It is old technology, but it was an intentional move as I didn't want my coolant going through the extremely hot turbo if the oil was capable of cooling it. Oil and Coolant temp have a correlation between each other and my decisions on combo worked for me.
On my street FD, the dual oil coolers have been fine the last 11 years. Still sequential, AC, PS, etc...
If you are wanting to upgrade the stock system, upgrade the lines to SS. You can adapt the stock oil coolers to use SS braided lines by using a M22-10AN adapter(that PN is off the top of my head) at the oil coolers. You fabricate a couple of brackets to hold the lines, and you are good. That is what I did with my V8 FD and it turned out great. I have some pictures of the lines, adapters, fittings, and brackets in my build thread... but I know several other forum members have done the same.
it was just a thought, i won't be able to afford much else for the car until the rest of the build is done anyways lol
10-09-11, 07:29 PM
#40
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and guess who they learned that lesson from 
Now add in age, cooling loss over time (bent fins etc), and the fact that they already are quite inefficient coolers, and you kinda have a recipe for disaster. Especially when you start adding more power than stock. I don't know about everyone else, but if I'm out in the FD I'm not driving it like a sedan.
Think about it, even back then when the car was brand new Mazda decided that even at 255 fwhp (~205 ish RWHP) the single oil cooler on our car were not sufficient for track use (hence the dual coolers on the r1). We laugh at 200fwhp cars now.... but never consider the implications of added power on cooling. Aftermarket coolers are thicker, larger, and way more efficient than the stock coolers. It's common to upgrade the water cooling radiator, but I think for cost reasons people really try to avoid messing with the oil cooling system, even though it's really an important area that should be addressed for reliability, especially with more power than stock.
my 2 cents... I'd like to hear other peoples viewpoints, but I'm a firm believer in the FD needing a LOT more oil cooling capacity, not to mention you've simply got more fresh oil in the system as a whole.
-Heath
10-09-11, 07:31 PM
#41
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I know the banjos are pricey though... I'm wondering how much you'd guesstimate the total cost was to do that vs say 150 for a mocal. Either way, that's a very cool setup 
10-10-11, 04:12 AM
#42
Never said there was. My point was to make them more reliable as the lines are almost 20 years old. I have had a line failure in the past. Also, if you are converting from single to R1/R2 duals, it is probably just as cheap to use AN lines as it is to buy stock lines.
As stated above, I believe R1/R2 oil coolers are more than suffcient for 95% of the FD's out there to include your street driven FD's as well as mild track FD's, I think the exceptions being 3 rotor or high hp race cars with competent drivers behind the wheel. If your oil temps are getting too high during a spirited drive through the mountains or the occasional highway/street pull... then there is another underlying issue with the car. That's based on the fact that I have around 10,000 rotary track miles in an FD(prob. more than 99% of the people here), a street FD that I've driven for 11 years on the same engine, and the 25-30 FD's that have passed through my hands in the last 10 or so years. Practical application trumps theory every time. If you have real world data from your car that suggests otherwise, I'd love to see it as I'm always open to see other peoples experiences. I'm not looking to sway anyone's opinion, merely sharing my experiences. Would newer technology oil coolers cool more? Sure, but is it needed? It's up to the individual owner with their hard earned money in hand to decide. It doesn't bother me one way or the other what someone else does to their car
10-10-11, 08:35 AM
#43
hey guys, i had an aftermarket cooler with lines going directly to oil cooler and no thermostat (didn't realize it was that important)
i just got my R1 Dual oil coolers in the mail, my question is, is there a way to run the 2 stainless lines that feed and return the oil coolers into the factory cores?
i saw that Brent Dalton posted in here that it would require an M22 to -10AN fitting...is this correct?
thanks
-VJ
i just got my R1 Dual oil coolers in the mail, my question is, is there a way to run the 2 stainless lines that feed and return the oil coolers into the factory cores?
i saw that Brent Dalton posted in here that it would require an M22 to -10AN fitting...is this correct?
thanks
-VJ
10-10-11, 10:06 AM
#47
Not off the top of my head. I had sized it(the thread and pitch in the block) when I was having an oil leak issue with my turbo feed line on my T78 SSM FD, but don't rememeber what size it was. Sorry man. Not sure what turbo you are going with or if you are staying twins(and you are probably already tracking), but make sure you have the restrictor in the line somewhere to drop the oil pressure down at the turbo so it doesn't blow out your seals.
Wish I could be more help, but I'm not really around any of my FD suff right now.
Wish I could be more help, but I'm not really around any of my FD suff right now.
10-10-11, 11:54 AM
#49
i was tracking my car before the build and i plan on tracking it after the build, so i'm sure this will be helpful
your expertise is much appreciated man
10-10-11, 12:17 PM
#50
Rotary engines run significantly higher oil pressure than piston engines. I believe I saw that you were going single. When singles are installed on the rotary, most require a restrictor to drop the oil pressure down to the specified range so that it does not blow the oil seals out as majority of turbo were never engineered to see that high of oil pressure. Depending on the turbo you are running will determine what restrictor you need as most of them bolt to the turbo at the oil feed inlet. You may want to check with someone more knowledgable on this as I haven't really messed with singles since the start of 2010. My memory is not what it use to be 