Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

i am flattered to be asked as i don't consider myself an authority. that said, i very much like the install and a big THANKS to Speed of Light for sharing.

hc

Speedworks

Howard, you got PM.

Speedworks

I'm in Europe and it seems not that many people are working with this, let alone have a dual EGT kit for sale.

Can anyone help me getting me a kit that works with datalogit?

arghx

iTrader: (3)

What are the signs of dead probles? I went to do some logging today and I think I may have killed my TeamRip thermocouples unless the FJO box died. I haven't tried to log anything in about 600 miles, since right when I started going WOT on my rebuild. The probles have about 1100 miles of them, 600 of which has seen at least 1650+ degrees.

I am reading exactly 0.00v on both wires to the Datalogit. I highly doubt it is a wiring problem, usually when there's no signal going to a Datalogit input you will be able to pickup some random electrical voltages. Think I should call FJO? They are in Canada though so I'd have to pay some kind of long distance.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I sent FJO an email, it'll probably take a couple days to hear back though.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

i did lose a TeamRip probe after 4 years. the second probe works. while it is slightly improbable you lost both probes it could happen. as you know Type K thermocouples put out miniscule voltage from the probe to the converter box. also slightly improbable is the FJO module failure as they are built to MilSpec and potted. more probable is a ground or hot connection to the module.

since you are one of the most tech savvy on the board i assume you have probably thoroughly checked that aspect.

keep us posted.

howard

arghx

iTrader: (3)

tech savvy but busy with other stupid things on the car like the clutch switch. i'll get to it eventually. I'll probably physically inspect the probes first. The power and ground to the box are directly tapped into my Power FC engine patch harness to reduce the chance of floating ground issues or any other such electrical crap. I didn't use any vampire taps or other things that can occasionally fail, I'd be surprised if that were the issue.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I just hooked up a nice Fluke multimeter to the two signal wires. Red probe was on the AN3 or AN4 pins (EGT Fr and EGT R respectively) of the custom quick disconnect harness I made for my Datalogit. Black probe was on the AN2 pin of the quick disconnect harness. AN2 is part of the common grounding system I use for my wideband and FJO EGT converter (I utilize the Delta AN1-AN2 in aux setup). With the key in the on position (engine off), I read 25 mV on each FJO signal wire by probing their respective pins.

With the probes in the same position, I removed the key from the ignition and the voltage dropped to exactly 0. This makes me think the FJO module is good. The next thing I'm going to do when I get a chance is physically inspect the probes. How would I be able to tell if they are bad? Would they look melted or something?

arghx

iTrader: (3)

Update:

I unplugged the EGT probes from the FJO box. I measured resistance across the two male terminals. Open circuit on both. I presume that means the probes are toast. I didn't remove them from the car because there's really no point in doing so right now. I'm not sure if I'm going to get new ones any time soon, they'll probably just burn out again. Are there any K type probes that can handle more heat than the TeamRip?

Looking back on it, the highest temp I saw was 1650 on the rear rotor, but that was at only 2/3 throttle in 2nd gear, 14psi and 7000rpm. The motor wasn't even broken in yet. I bet at almost 8000prm in 3rd, running 16.5psi it ran really hot and burned them out? I also hit fuel cut a few times. Twice was PFC overrev fuel cut and once was PFC overboost fuel cut. The backfire could've destroyed them maybe.

The motor seems to be running fine, I'm not going to change anything with the tune. AFR is mid 11's, leading timing and split maps are:



leading



split

note that I have series 4 rotors (8.5:1 compression) and this is straight 93 octane fuel. I'm usually right in the middle of the 20000 and 22000 PIM rows by 5000rpm, with boost at about 1.15 kg/cm^2 measured on the GM 3 bar MAP sensor. Calibration is scale 6630 offset 0 per Banzai Racing, altitude is about 300 feet above sea level.

thewird

iTrader: (8)

I've had these in my manifold for almost 30,000 km with over 15 track days this year. They see 1850 *F continuous for 30 minutes at the track many many sessions and still read fine...

http://tscsensors.com/egt-probes--racing.html

I am not using the severe duty since I thought that would make them lag a little.

thewird

arghx

iTrader: (3)

does that look like it would thread into 1/8 NPT bungs that teamrip sold? And I think those wires would screw into the yellow electrical connector thing I have to plug into the box, I don't remember if that connector came with the probes or came with the box.I'm NOT pulling the exhaust manifold. I'm really in no mood to do serious work on the car, it's been running for 1100 miles and some crap seems to go wrong with it every 200.

I'm looking for something that will directly replace the teamrip probes with the absolute minimum of modification necessary. I'm a bit frustrated right now, and I'm having trouble justifying the money and the hassle for this EGT system. I never even got to use it to log a WOT pull. I'm clearly running hotter temperatures than many thought were safe, yet the rear trailing plug I checked recently looked completely fine (stock BUR9EQ) and I've felt no detonation.

thewird

iTrader: (8)

Yes, its a basic 1/8 NPT connection. You should get these connectors as well for plug and play operation with the FJO box. Remember do not solder EGT connections.

http://tscsensors.com/mctmp600000000kmale.html

thewird

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I already have those yellow plugs, I can remove them from the old probes.

I'm wondering if I should get the severe duty ones. I don't think I'll be able to order new probes for a month or so because I've just ordered the Triumph IAT. I also need a new clutch switch, dash kit for the radio, and TB coolant hose.

thewird

iTrader: (8)

Well, it would be up to you but the layer of protection might make the probe lag a little. They are both rated for 2300+ *F which no rotary will see regardless of tuning (i think). Given that both of mine are reading like the way I put them after 30,000 km and tons of real track days (I don't play around on the track) @ 1850 *F continuously I think you will be fine with the normal ones but its up to you.

thewird

WLD 07

These are the probes and displays i'll be using -


http://www.auberins.com/index.php?ma...products_id=19

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?ma...roducts_id=131

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1VwWGzbOq0

grimple1

iTrader: (1)

sorry for the bump but can someone clarify why a type-k to 5v conversion needs to be done? Is this in order to run type-K EGTs with datalogit?

thewird

iTrader: (8)

Yes, its the only way to log with them. If your plugging it into gauges you don't need it since they have it built in.

thewird

grimple1

iTrader: (1)

I had planned on just running it with datalogit but if there's a reason to run both datalogit and gauge I could be talked into doing so.


For the datalogit setup all I would need are the 2 EGT probes and 2 of these converters?

http://www.o2simulator.com/index.php...products_id=13

bc_fd3s

iTrader: (2)

yup, that's it. I just bought two of those today ^^

thewird

iTrader: (8)

The reason to plug it into your datalogit is for logging which can be used for tuning. Those are just connectors (which you need anyway if your probes don't have them). If you want to hook it up to your datalogit, you need a converter box like the FJO. Some others were mentioned in this thread too.

edit: looking closer, that is in fact a converter box but it seems kinda cheap. But as long as it works right.

thewird

grimple1

iTrader: (1)

A bit of an update.

I spoke with the folks at the Sensor Connection and they encouraged me to go with a 3/16 EGT Probe. There are a couple of sizes there and the 3/16 is the bigger one. http://tscsensors.com/egtep0720001ssnexhau.html

They reported that the 3/16ths last longer and are comparable to the smaller probe by .05 milliseconds. (The millisecond information on that site is completely screwy btw - one place it registers 200/250 milliseconds and another 500 milliseconds - the 500 millisecond information is incorrect).

I did mention to him that these were rotary engines with higher temp. exhaust. He seemed to understand a bit about the Rotary from previous customers that used their probes.

Just thought I'd pass the info along.

Sandro

iTrader: (1)

I just got this nice AEM converter I found at a good price on eBay
http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=82

You can connect 4 K-T/C and provides 4 separate 1-5V signals for logging (+ 1 x serial RS232)

- Sandro

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I'm kind of at a crossroads here on this subject. I haven't replaced my probes because I had to get other stuff for the car like a new doorhandle and such.

BUT... I know my exhaust has got to be really, really hot and yet there's nothing wrong with my car. Consider that the last log I got was about 1650 F at part throttle and about 14psi boost. But there's nothing wrong with me engine that I can tell. I haven't had any detonation that I can see, and I'm running over 16psi right now on just 93 octane pump gas. Hell I'm running four BUR9EQ plugs.

Maybe it's the 8.5:1 rotors?

grimple1

iTrader: (1)

The sensor connection folk seemed to indicate that it's a filament issue. In that the smaller filament probes are quicker to react but are destroyed faster due to the constant temperatures. He compared the idea to that of a light bulb. The more heat on the filament and the more usage the quicker they'll destroy. The larger the filament the more duration/heat they can take but are larger and thus a little slower to react.

As I mentioned earlier they have a few sizes: 3/16, 1/8 and a 1/4 Severe Duty probe. I told him that I wanted a fast reacting probe (3/16 is 250 milliseconds) with longevity due to my car being a street car (not raced) and a probe that could accurately be used in a real-time datalog session. Again, he recommended the 3/16 for this application with a 250millisecond reaction time (will fit a 1/8 bung).

My guess is your probes, arghx, just wore out prematurely. Based on what I've read about EGTemperatures, I don't think 1650 is THAT extreme. The sensor connections probes max at 2300 but I suspect they'll burn out with use regardless of max temp.

NissanConvert

iTrader: (1)

I've been looking at those sensors for a while, did he lead you away from the severe duty? If so, just what application would the severe duty sensors be for?