D3rELiC

i wanna know what i should run, and, most important, why i should run that, which injection system is the best, how tunable it is. thx

D3rELiC

no body got something to say ?
im just wondering why the hell people runs w.i.

water :
cooler intake
more o2 in the engine = small performance improvement
posibility to run leaner

denaturated alcohol :
high octane, so you can run more boost ( 7-8 psi on a rb20det)
burns at 40 celcius degres, so it cools down the whole engine

why isnt it more FD running Alky than water ? someone answer !!

duboisr

Garfinkle injects a 50 -50 % mixture of water and alcohol on his turbo charged motorcycle .This mixture gives the best of both in the same tank .

D3rELiC

yea but i think he use methanol. im talking about ethanol baby !!!

duboisr

Gar uses denaturated alcohol in a ss tank with water ,pressureized by boost pressure with a ball and spring valve set at 8lbs. The mix is injected in to the carb throat . The boost is set at 20 lbs on a low compression 1397 cc Kaw Z1 ,every thing done ,ridgid frame ,street and show bike .

D3rELiC

would it be efficient on a rotary engine ?

Tom93R1

iTrader: (2)

I run 50/50 water and denatured alcohol. I dont have any numbers that I can give and I wouldnt say it gave my any more power at all. I do it because it keeps the insides of the motor clean (You should see my spark plugs!) and prevents detonation (noticable drop in knock numbers shown on PFC). I am sure I could run another couple PSI boost but I wouldnt want to tune for something that is so easy to forget about in my daily driver.

Pop_Goes_The_Wankel

I prefer water and iso. Methanol is corosive

D3rELiC

denaturated alcohol = Ethanol, not methanol.

tom, do you run more rich ?

SWAT81

iTrader: (14)

Is this proven in some way? I always thought it isn't safe to do this. Also, is Ethanol supposed to be the same as Ethyl cuz that's what I'm planning on using to pass my inspection.

-Gene

Jonesboro

Yes Gene, Ethanol = Ethyl Alcohol

Tom93R1

iTrader: (2)

It is proven to me by removing my spark plugs after a few months of use and they look almost as clean as the day they were put in. Usually there is alot of carbon build up on them.

As for running richer I cant really say. I havent really done much for testing A/F ratios.

D3rELiC

what about running more boost w/ alcohol ? thats the point i'd like to get other's opinion from.

IrishDawg

ok, noob question: when u say 50/50 mix of water and alcohol(i'm not gettins specific with types), u mean ur running to actual gasoline? am i missing somethin?

Tom93R1

iTrader: (2)

This is what we mean by water/alcohol injection.
http://www.turbomirage.com/water.html

SWAT81

iTrader: (14)

this can't be true! If you put water in your gas tank its no good for the engine! Mixing and diluting water is still not a good reason to put in the engine at all, I asked Mahjik and he was stunned to hear that someone is putting mixtures od water in their tanks.

D3rELiC

lol, not in the gaz tank. its in a separated tank, with another pump, with other hoses, with injectors right before the intake manifoil. people runs water, methanol, ethanol, or they mix that. water is not dirrecly shotted into the engine, its sprayed and evaporate the second its out of its nozzel. it the same thing as nos, but its 'permanant'
water keeps the manifoil cool, and Ethanol is to be able to run something like 6 or 7 more psi than what you wer running before injecting alcohol. injection systems can varry, some are always flowing at the same speed. others can be tuned to react with boost or rpm. aquamist sells a kit that can be tuned with a standalone Ecu, like an E6K.

i wanna run more boost. and i wanna run it safe. and because a rotary engine doesnt have to get its internal rebuilded to take more boost, i was thinking that maybe using alcohol can do miracles in an rx7, cuz the only boost limit you can have is fuel, turbo size and heat. using alcohol with an fmic, a good turbo and a good fuel system, on a bridgeported engine, i wonder where is the limit

salamander

Denatured alcohol is ethanol with about 5% methanol added to make it unfit for drinking.

Ethanol fueled flame temperatures are typically hotter than gasoline. To cool the flame temp down you will need to add some kind of inert such as steam. Steam injection is common on gas turbines to lower flame temps and reduce emissions. It can increase power a little in certain cases I think because it adds rotating mass.

D3rELiC

ok, thx salamander
i think i'll just have to try it out myself.

ZeroBanger

I prefer isoprophyl alchol now. methanol is corrosive. I use 75 pct water to 25 iso. Sometimes 100 pct water. Just experiment.