Dealer screwed up my car after clutch job
King of the Duct Tape
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,177
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From: PA
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 986
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From: Okayama - Japan
I feel terrible for you mate, it sounds so fishy. I think that they sounded like they felt bad about engine and that would account for the free clutch and free check. Dealerships dont usually give free service. What did they say that they actually broke while instally the clutch which caused the delay in the first place?
I can think of a dozen times that a dealer was talking ***** when selling a car.
I can think of a dozen times that a dealer was talking ***** when selling a car.
Simple explaination, they let the car sit while hot, intake temp sensor heat soaked, then drove the **** out of it and it and detnated it due to heat soaked IAT which leaned out the AFR.
Fry that jack rabbit sob service writer and find out which mechanic worked on the car and interview him, then send legal papers to both of them.
Fry that jack rabbit sob service writer and find out which mechanic worked on the car and interview him, then send legal papers to both of them.
I have to say I am sorry to hear this. I have only taken my FD to the mazda dealership once for a compression test and I stood and chit-chatted with the tech the whole time he performed the test. But after I pulled into the dealership (before I pulled into the bay) I set the rev limiter to 2k rpm just for good measure and told the writer that the car was not to be driven under ANY circumstances. I just was glad I was able to stand in the bay with the car. FD's attract quite a bit of attention from all the techs working that day. Good luck with your situation and get back to us with an update when you have one.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Ann Arbor, MI
Happy new year everyone.
I towed my car from that Mazda dealer (Sesi Mazda in Ypsilanty, MI) to another independent repair shop for a second opinion. The shop did a compression test and the result is the same: no compression from the rear rotor (0, 0, 0).
I talked to the service writeup guy at the dealer when I was there. He claimed that they drove my car up on the hoist for 4 miles, and they didn't take my car out of their facility at all. This is some BS. Why would anyone drive a car up on the hoist for 4 miles, test drive or not?
My lawyer says we need to prove that somehow they damaged the engine while doing the clutch job. But, I don't think they blew it while doing the job at all. He understands this, but says we cannot prove they damaged the car while 'testdriving' unless we have solid evidence such as witness. Our story is all our imagination even though all the circumstances indicate that they did it while joyriding. Even if we can take the engine apart and see the damaged internals (side seal or apex seal), I don't think we can prove the damage was done while being driven by one of their technicians.
Can anyone share similar experiences with the dealer or sueing the dealer, or any idea how we can prove their wrong doings?
Thanks everyone.
I towed my car from that Mazda dealer (Sesi Mazda in Ypsilanty, MI) to another independent repair shop for a second opinion. The shop did a compression test and the result is the same: no compression from the rear rotor (0, 0, 0).
I talked to the service writeup guy at the dealer when I was there. He claimed that they drove my car up on the hoist for 4 miles, and they didn't take my car out of their facility at all. This is some BS. Why would anyone drive a car up on the hoist for 4 miles, test drive or not?
My lawyer says we need to prove that somehow they damaged the engine while doing the clutch job. But, I don't think they blew it while doing the job at all. He understands this, but says we cannot prove they damaged the car while 'testdriving' unless we have solid evidence such as witness. Our story is all our imagination even though all the circumstances indicate that they did it while joyriding. Even if we can take the engine apart and see the damaged internals (side seal or apex seal), I don't think we can prove the damage was done while being driven by one of their technicians.
Can anyone share similar experiences with the dealer or sueing the dealer, or any idea how we can prove their wrong doings?
Thanks everyone.
bryant
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,509
Likes: 0
From: montgomery
if your car didnt have compression on the rear rotor than you wouldnt been able to drive the car.
at least not 4 miles drive the car.
you would think that being the case than a expert engine builder should be able to give some prof. and explain in a court of law his findings of what and why.
atleast when my motor went pineapple could tell me everything that went wrong and why.
at least not 4 miles drive the car.
you would think that being the case than a expert engine builder should be able to give some prof. and explain in a court of law his findings of what and why.
atleast when my motor went pineapple could tell me everything that went wrong and why.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: Florida
You need to tell the lawyer and get proof from another shop or rotary expert that with the rear rotor basically not working the car is NOT drivable. That means if this problem had happened before they test drove it or worked on it you would have never even been able to get the car into the shop. Also you need to find some evidence on whether or not they drove other cars they worked on for that long of time (4 miles). Do you have any type of data logger on your car? If so get the information off if it, and check the revs history on it. Remember that these cars are performance cars and are especially fragile if not taken carefully, stress this to your lawyer. Also check and see if any of the techs are actually certified to work on rotary cars and this specific car (3rd gen Rx7).
Happy new year everyone.
I towed my car from that Mazda dealer (Sesi Mazda in Ypsilanty, MI) to another independent repair shop for a second opinion. The shop did a compression test and the result is the same: no compression from the rear rotor (0, 0, 0).
I talked to the service writeup guy at the dealer when I was there. He claimed that they drove my car up on the hoist for 4 miles, and they didn't take my car out of their facility at all. This is some BS. Why would anyone drive a car up on the hoist for 4 miles, test drive or not?
My lawyer says we need to prove that somehow they damaged the engine while doing the clutch job. But, I don't think they blew it while doing the job at all. He understands this, but says we cannot prove they damaged the car while 'testdriving' unless we have solid evidence such as witness. Our story is all our imagination even though all the circumstances indicate that they did it while joyriding. Even if we can take the engine apart and see the damaged internals (side seal or apex seal), I don't think we can prove the damage was done while being driven by one of their technicians.
Can anyone share similar experiences with the dealer or sueing the dealer, or any idea how we can prove their wrong doings?
Thanks everyone.
I towed my car from that Mazda dealer (Sesi Mazda in Ypsilanty, MI) to another independent repair shop for a second opinion. The shop did a compression test and the result is the same: no compression from the rear rotor (0, 0, 0).
I talked to the service writeup guy at the dealer when I was there. He claimed that they drove my car up on the hoist for 4 miles, and they didn't take my car out of their facility at all. This is some BS. Why would anyone drive a car up on the hoist for 4 miles, test drive or not?
My lawyer says we need to prove that somehow they damaged the engine while doing the clutch job. But, I don't think they blew it while doing the job at all. He understands this, but says we cannot prove they damaged the car while 'testdriving' unless we have solid evidence such as witness. Our story is all our imagination even though all the circumstances indicate that they did it while joyriding. Even if we can take the engine apart and see the damaged internals (side seal or apex seal), I don't think we can prove the damage was done while being driven by one of their technicians.
Can anyone share similar experiences with the dealer or sueing the dealer, or any idea how we can prove their wrong doings?
Thanks everyone.
which dealership did you take your FD to? I live outside Ann Arbor and know a few of
the places around here, some all to well.
EDIT: I just saw that you took it to Sesi in Ypsi. They actually did this to you? I know the head of the service garage (provided he hasn't retired yet, last time I talked to him he was seriously considering it), and he's a VERY honost guy. That's the only dealer that my family takes our cars to for body work. Is the head of the shop a guy named Dave (I know him as body shop Dave, that's how he answers his phone)? If it's the same guy, i'm amazed that this is how he's handling this situation. If not, then I don't know what to tell you. If you're looking for a very honost, reputable place that will give you a no bullshit answer, pm me. I'm in town 'til Friday morning, and i'd be more than happy to accompany you to the shop and get you hooked up with the right guy that will give you a no-**** assessment. There is a guy at this particular shop that's big into FB's, so they have some experience with RX-7's (not sure about FD's tho). I'd also be willing to go and have a little chat with Dave and see if i could find out if one of his techs took it out for a "spirited" drive.
Jim
the places around here, some all to well.
EDIT: I just saw that you took it to Sesi in Ypsi. They actually did this to you? I know the head of the service garage (provided he hasn't retired yet, last time I talked to him he was seriously considering it), and he's a VERY honost guy. That's the only dealer that my family takes our cars to for body work. Is the head of the shop a guy named Dave (I know him as body shop Dave, that's how he answers his phone)? If it's the same guy, i'm amazed that this is how he's handling this situation. If not, then I don't know what to tell you. If you're looking for a very honost, reputable place that will give you a no bullshit answer, pm me. I'm in town 'til Friday morning, and i'd be more than happy to accompany you to the shop and get you hooked up with the right guy that will give you a no-**** assessment. There is a guy at this particular shop that's big into FB's, so they have some experience with RX-7's (not sure about FD's tho). I'd also be willing to go and have a little chat with Dave and see if i could find out if one of his techs took it out for a "spirited" drive.
Jim
Last edited by OneRotor; Jan 7, 2008 at 12:31 PM.
gaebing,
It's really sad that his happened and we all share your pain, however we all know that the unpredictable nature of rotary engine failure is what some people hate about them. Sometimes all it takes is shutting the engine down and restarting it the next day for an apex seal to snap on an engine that has some miles on it. Over the years, I've dealt with many similar situations and heard of many others where engines failed prematurely and in a very unusual manner. I've had a number of engine failures after an exhaust system replacement or simply a muffler replacement. This was quite common on S4/S5 engines with 100k+ miles. I've heard of muffler shops that got blamed for abusing the car after some exhaust service and a test drive when the engine failed. I had a friend with an S5 vert that was hardly driven. The engine failed at 28k miles after a tune-up at Mazda. The dealer in that situation shared some of the cost of the engine replacement. In that situation, you can imagine that it wasn't because of worn seals or housings, but simply because of carbon which caused an apex seal to snap. I did an engine recently for someone with really clean '95 with a blown apex seal at 36k miles. The internals were hardly worn, but there was a lot of carbon inside.
My point is that sometimes things like this happen and the timing couldn't be any worse if it happens after the car has been serviced. If the car was to be inspected for a hot start issue also, that might have been an indicator that not all was well when the car was brought in. It sounds like you got some offers for help in your neck of the woods. It's been my experience that bringing a lawyer into such a situation too quickly doesn't always result in a favorable outcome. Try to negotiate something with the dealer who performed the work. There's something they're not telling you between the time your drove it in and now, but try to work things out with the general manager first. I've had bad situations with Mazda dealers here locally, but there is always a mutually beneficial resolution to any situation.
It's really sad that his happened and we all share your pain, however we all know that the unpredictable nature of rotary engine failure is what some people hate about them. Sometimes all it takes is shutting the engine down and restarting it the next day for an apex seal to snap on an engine that has some miles on it. Over the years, I've dealt with many similar situations and heard of many others where engines failed prematurely and in a very unusual manner. I've had a number of engine failures after an exhaust system replacement or simply a muffler replacement. This was quite common on S4/S5 engines with 100k+ miles. I've heard of muffler shops that got blamed for abusing the car after some exhaust service and a test drive when the engine failed. I had a friend with an S5 vert that was hardly driven. The engine failed at 28k miles after a tune-up at Mazda. The dealer in that situation shared some of the cost of the engine replacement. In that situation, you can imagine that it wasn't because of worn seals or housings, but simply because of carbon which caused an apex seal to snap. I did an engine recently for someone with really clean '95 with a blown apex seal at 36k miles. The internals were hardly worn, but there was a lot of carbon inside.
My point is that sometimes things like this happen and the timing couldn't be any worse if it happens after the car has been serviced. If the car was to be inspected for a hot start issue also, that might have been an indicator that not all was well when the car was brought in. It sounds like you got some offers for help in your neck of the woods. It's been my experience that bringing a lawyer into such a situation too quickly doesn't always result in a favorable outcome. Try to negotiate something with the dealer who performed the work. There's something they're not telling you between the time your drove it in and now, but try to work things out with the general manager first. I've had bad situations with Mazda dealers here locally, but there is always a mutually beneficial resolution to any situation.
bryant
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,509
Likes: 0
From: montgomery
0,0,0 means detonation. all seals went at one time so... big boom.
then it probably shut off then the guy craped his paints and tried hard to get it running again.
then he finally got it so he limped it back to the shop or... was towed from point of explosion.
you can check you spark plugs to tell.
if the back rotor went badly and they drove it back, sparkplug should be nice and glossy on the bad chamber.
then it probably shut off then the guy craped his paints and tried hard to get it running again.
then he finally got it so he limped it back to the shop or... was towed from point of explosion.
you can check you spark plugs to tell.
if the back rotor went badly and they drove it back, sparkplug should be nice and glossy on the bad chamber.
Ok, same sort of thing...
My little brother works as an apprentice (trainee) mechanic at a garage here in town, which does warranty servicing & medium mechanical repairs. One day, A 1997 Nissan Pathfinder SUV-kind-of-thing came in for an oil change & service. The service was carried out, and my brother then gave the car the complimentary free wash & took it out on the road for a test, as they do with all serviced cars.
Now, my brother owns a turbocharged 2.6 liter 1974 Chrysler Lancer, and he's right into drifting, etc (as most young people who work in the auto trade usually are) so the "test drive" he gives customer's cars, is one full of limiter-banging, tire screaming hell..
He recounts that he got the automatic trans Pathfinder on the rev limiter in second gear, slammed it into 3rd and heard a bang & a big grinding noise, followed by a loss of forward drive (engine free revving while in gear). He coasted into a carpark, calls his big brother up (me) and says "holy crap, I've just blown up a customer's car! What do I do??"
I reply that he should just be honest with his boss, and leave me out of this one!! So he ends up calling his boss, getting the car towed back to the workshop and his boss tells him that "No matter how hard you were driving this thing, we're just going to tell the lady customer that her car was going to blow up anyway"
Turns out, he stripped all the spline teeth off the input shaft of the auto transmission, and welded parts of it together internally, from all his antics. If I were the customer & saw all the spline teeth shredded off the input shaft, I'd know some idiot had thrashed my car.. But this customer wasnt very mechanically minded.
The boss calls her up, says it was going to happen anyway, and it would cost her $4000 all up, in labour & parts to repair everything. And you know what? The silly customer paid it
because she didnt know any better!? And apparently, this wasnt the first time this sort of thing had happened, and that would explain why the boss wasnt too shaken up by it, & never got angry about it.
After that, I made sure if my car was going for exhaust work or a wheel alignment or something I couldnt be bothered to do myself, I set my Power FC rev limiter down, so the "mechanics" cant rev it to an early death. And it pays to know, or have a good relationship with the guy who is going to work on your car, because he will respect you & also your car a little more that way.
My little brother works as an apprentice (trainee) mechanic at a garage here in town, which does warranty servicing & medium mechanical repairs. One day, A 1997 Nissan Pathfinder SUV-kind-of-thing came in for an oil change & service. The service was carried out, and my brother then gave the car the complimentary free wash & took it out on the road for a test, as they do with all serviced cars.
Now, my brother owns a turbocharged 2.6 liter 1974 Chrysler Lancer, and he's right into drifting, etc (as most young people who work in the auto trade usually are) so the "test drive" he gives customer's cars, is one full of limiter-banging, tire screaming hell..
He recounts that he got the automatic trans Pathfinder on the rev limiter in second gear, slammed it into 3rd and heard a bang & a big grinding noise, followed by a loss of forward drive (engine free revving while in gear). He coasted into a carpark, calls his big brother up (me) and says "holy crap, I've just blown up a customer's car! What do I do??"
I reply that he should just be honest with his boss, and leave me out of this one!! So he ends up calling his boss, getting the car towed back to the workshop and his boss tells him that "No matter how hard you were driving this thing, we're just going to tell the lady customer that her car was going to blow up anyway"Turns out, he stripped all the spline teeth off the input shaft of the auto transmission, and welded parts of it together internally, from all his antics. If I were the customer & saw all the spline teeth shredded off the input shaft, I'd know some idiot had thrashed my car.. But this customer wasnt very mechanically minded.
The boss calls her up, says it was going to happen anyway, and it would cost her $4000 all up, in labour & parts to repair everything. And you know what? The silly customer paid it
because she didnt know any better!? And apparently, this wasnt the first time this sort of thing had happened, and that would explain why the boss wasnt too shaken up by it, & never got angry about it.After that, I made sure if my car was going for exhaust work or a wheel alignment or something I couldnt be bothered to do myself, I set my Power FC rev limiter down, so the "mechanics" cant rev it to an early death. And it pays to know, or have a good relationship with the guy who is going to work on your car, because he will respect you & also your car a little more that way.
Just because you don't get caught, doesn't mean someone isn't ALWAYS watching.
try tracking down the tow truck that towed the car in from the mechanics test drive... tell them that you are from the dealship and that you need a copy of the tow invoice faxed to you...how many tow comapnies can there be in your city???
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 30,807
Likes: 648
From: FL-->NJ/NYC again!
Not true. Had a customer come in about a year ago....original motor, 52k miles, zero compression on all three faces of the back rotor. Car had just shut down on him while cruising. Tore the motor down, the amount of carbon was insane, never seen anything like it. No signs of detonation. FD was owned since new by an older gentlemen who seldom drove the car hard.
Not true. Had a customer come in about a year ago....original motor, 52k miles, zero compression on all three faces of the back rotor. Car had just shut down on him while cruising. Tore the motor down, the amount of carbon was insane, never seen anything like it. No signs of detonation. FD was owned since new by an older gentlemen who seldom drove the car hard.
-GRE
bryant
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,509
Likes: 0
From: montgomery
Not true. Had a customer come in about a year ago....original motor, 52k miles, zero compression on all three faces of the back rotor. Car had just shut down on him while cruising. Tore the motor down, the amount of carbon was insane, never seen anything like it. No signs of detonation. FD was owned since new by an older gentlemen who seldom drove the car hard.
well maybe not in your situation but it was true in mine... i only had around 5000 miles.