Damian you ham...
11-01-06, 05:50 PM
#53
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
tks for the responses guys...perhaps i wil try it again come spring. you guys are firing me up. Especially hearing Damien in that vid. i mean he is giddy with excitement. thats awesome! When i went i went with a bunch of great fd guys. Wael was one of them. he ran off and did alittle damage to his baby. he was completely cool about it but it shook me up alittle. i think thats what turned me off on it a bit.
about being humbled....i thought i was gonna be good at this given my aggressive nature and the fact that i have been driving rx7s and sports cars since i was 16 (15 yrs now). wow was i wrong. i was getting passed by much slower cars( as measured by power to weight ratio). but i did get better. in my 3rd and final session i had a couple real nice laps. i was excited about it as well as my instructor. it did feel great. Man i could just imagine how nice it must feel for you guys that know what u are doing outthere!
about being humbled....i thought i was gonna be good at this given my aggressive nature and the fact that i have been driving rx7s and sports cars since i was 16 (15 yrs now). wow was i wrong. i was getting passed by much slower cars( as measured by power to weight ratio). but i did get better. in my 3rd and final session i had a couple real nice laps. i was excited about it as well as my instructor. it did feel great. Man i could just imagine how nice it must feel for you guys that know what u are doing outthere!
Last edited by matty; 11-01-06 at 05:54 PM.
11-01-06, 06:04 PM
#54
Originally Posted by turbogarrett
Cool video! I had my fd there as well, but was in a class lower than these guys.
Thanks again Andy for the rear rotors, didn't expect to crack a rear one. I'll see you guys at the april event!
Thanks again Andy for the rear rotors, didn't expect to crack a rear one. I'll see you guys at the april event!
No problem...
I turned the rotors you gave me and used them the following week. They're toast now too. heheh
April isn't that far away! We need more FD's there, anyone else?
11-01-06, 06:08 PM
#55
Wow, you're all philisophical and **** Good advice man 
Good advice man
Originally Posted by Fritz Flynn
I recommend autocrossing as much as possible and going to empty parking lots etc.....to increase your confidence in car control.
It's not unusual at all to feel that way after your 1st HPDE. It's a whole different driving experience that's almost impossible to duplicate anywhere but a track. IMO it takes a huge # of events to even go 7/10s. It's really difficult not to get caught up in the competite nature of this sport but try to focus on your own driving, and not the cars around you.
I think what freaks most people out the most is how much the car moves around and how easy it is to control it if you just stay calm and react smoothely with your eyes focused well ahead. After you slide through a few 50 to 70 mph corners the hootin and a hollerin is only natural and if it's not then you will most likely find a new hobby cause it just keeps getting wilder. As crazy as this sounds for some people who only go 3 or 4 times a year this 1st stage could take you 10 or 15 events and for others it may never happen because they just can't allow themselves to free the car up to fully start to grasp it but again it just keeps getting better.
There's a huge skill difference in pro driving so you can imagine the difference in skill at HPDE events so those cars that appear to be going slow probably are not really going that slow but if you're a track DAWG you most likely have mad skills because you go monthly, have tons of seat time compared to the guys your passing and most likely are a little ******* crazy.
It's really weird how many phases to the learning curve there is but honestly I've never done something in my life that makes me as happy as driving a car at speed and I continue to realize how bad I am and how good the pros are. Like most things in life the more you know the more you realize that you don't know lol.
It's not unusual at all to feel that way after your 1st HPDE. It's a whole different driving experience that's almost impossible to duplicate anywhere but a track. IMO it takes a huge # of events to even go 7/10s. It's really difficult not to get caught up in the competite nature of this sport but try to focus on your own driving, and not the cars around you.
I think what freaks most people out the most is how much the car moves around and how easy it is to control it if you just stay calm and react smoothely with your eyes focused well ahead. After you slide through a few 50 to 70 mph corners the hootin and a hollerin is only natural and if it's not then you will most likely find a new hobby cause it just keeps getting wilder. As crazy as this sounds for some people who only go 3 or 4 times a year this 1st stage could take you 10 or 15 events and for others it may never happen because they just can't allow themselves to free the car up to fully start to grasp it but again it just keeps getting better.
There's a huge skill difference in pro driving so you can imagine the difference in skill at HPDE events so those cars that appear to be going slow probably are not really going that slow but if you're a track DAWG you most likely have mad skills because you go monthly, have tons of seat time compared to the guys your passing and most likely are a little ******* crazy.
It's really weird how many phases to the learning curve there is but honestly I've never done something in my life that makes me as happy as driving a car at speed and I continue to realize how bad I am and how good the pros are. Like most things in life the more you know the more you realize that you don't know lol.
11-01-06, 06:28 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by Fritz Flynn
I recommend autocrossing as much as possible and going to empty parking lots etc.....to increase your confidence in car control.
It's not unusual at all to feel that way after your 1st HPDE. It's a whole different driving experience that's almost impossible to duplicate anywhere but a track. IMO it takes a huge # of events to even go 7/10s. It's really difficult not to get caught up in the competite nature of this sport but try to focus on your own driving, and not the cars around you.
I think what freaks most people out the most is how much the car moves around and how easy it is to control it if you just stay calm and react smoothely with your eyes focused well ahead. After you slide through a few 50 to 70 mph corners the hootin and a hollerin is only natural and if it's not then you will most likely find a new hobby cause it just keeps getting wilder. As crazy as this sounds for some people who only go 3 or 4 times a year this 1st stage could take you 10 or 15 events and for others it may never happen because they just can't allow themselves to free the car up to fully start to grasp it but again it just keeps getting better.
There's a huge skill difference in pro driving so you can imagine the difference in skill at HPDE events so those cars that appear to be going slow probably are not really going that slow but if you're a track DAWG you most likely have mad skills because you go monthly, have tons of seat time compared to the guys your passing and most likely are a little ******* crazy.
It's really weird how many phases to the learning curve there is but honestly I've never done something in my life that makes me as happy as driving a car at speed and I continue to realize how bad I am and how good the pros are. Like most things in life the more you know the more you realize that you don't know lol.
It's not unusual at all to feel that way after your 1st HPDE. It's a whole different driving experience that's almost impossible to duplicate anywhere but a track. IMO it takes a huge # of events to even go 7/10s. It's really difficult not to get caught up in the competite nature of this sport but try to focus on your own driving, and not the cars around you.
I think what freaks most people out the most is how much the car moves around and how easy it is to control it if you just stay calm and react smoothely with your eyes focused well ahead. After you slide through a few 50 to 70 mph corners the hootin and a hollerin is only natural and if it's not then you will most likely find a new hobby cause it just keeps getting wilder. As crazy as this sounds for some people who only go 3 or 4 times a year this 1st stage could take you 10 or 15 events and for others it may never happen because they just can't allow themselves to free the car up to fully start to grasp it but again it just keeps getting better.
There's a huge skill difference in pro driving so you can imagine the difference in skill at HPDE events so those cars that appear to be going slow probably are not really going that slow but if you're a track DAWG you most likely have mad skills because you go monthly, have tons of seat time compared to the guys your passing and most likely are a little ******* crazy.
It's really weird how many phases to the learning curve there is but honestly I've never done something in my life that makes me as happy as driving a car at speed and I continue to realize how bad I am and how good the pros are. Like most things in life the more you know the more you realize that you don't know lol.
Listening to Damian screaming and goofing just makes me think of how fun it is to track the FD. It may sound strange, but this is one of the most inspirational threads this year
. To bad its winter here, only 8 months to the next season... 
11-01-06, 06:34 PM
#57
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Originally Posted by Zebb
it may sound strange, but this is one of the most inspirational threads this year . To bad its winter here, only 8 months to the next season...
. To bad its winter here, only 8 months to the next season... this thread is def much nicer to read as oppose to the other 99% in which rynberg is helping some noob out on a question thats been asked a million times (how does that guy keep his cool) or the typical juvenile **** that takes place here now a days.
11-01-06, 06:47 PM
#58
Alot of the other guys have answered your question well already matty, but I'll add my opinion as well... I also have a 'newbie Track Day Checklist' that we use for our FindTheLine events as well that I can post/pm to people if you're interested.
1) You will have alot of stress the first time you go to an event. Doesn't matter where it is, how big it is or what cars are there. There is an initial fear that goes along with the territory. Learning where you are supposed to be, how the format works, all the rules you are supposed to be following etc etc etc. If you don't have the fear, something is probably wrong. This leads me to my second point...
2) Absolutely do not pay any attention to your times or passing people or speed or anything your first few times out. You will not be on line, and not be fast, get over it.
Simplify Simplify Simplify!
What you need to do is have a good instructor, and concentrate on the feel of the car, learn where you are supposed to be on the track, and gauge how the car reacts to inputs, all while paying attention to the rules and ettiquite of the group you are driving with.
Ben was along with us and I encouraged him to point them by as soon as they showed up in the mirror so that he wouldn't be watching what they are doing at all and could concentrate on finding and driving the line. I told him to go around the whole track in 4th gear too, to eliminate that from the equasion. Of course once you start driving the line, you can start to add deeper braking, and then work on heel-toe shifting, then you work on off line driving, etc etc etc. Progress in steps, not leaps.
3) Learn from the guys who have been there before. Everyone fast has someone who has shown them the line. The reason Damian and I get fast quick is because of other people like Bruce or others helping us out. This is not a new hobby, and there are lots of people out there who are good at it already who you can learn from. (Think Fritz at VIR ) Take rides with them whenever possible. It's fun, and you can see what is possible. Don't pay attention to specific markers or speeds, as their car and setup is likely different, but you can get an idea on lines, car control, etc from a ride. That is, once you get past the giddy phase. It might take a few rides if you're like Damian. hahah
4) Progress at your pace, not someone else's. Do not let the ego force you to do more than you're ready for. Be comfortable with your speed and group. The guys we were passing Porsche's, C6-Z06, etc are doing exactly what they should be, going at their pace and following the rules.
5) Try to make changes to your driving incrementally, not in large leaps. Try to do two laps in a row the exact same, it's actually hard! Once you can be consistent, you can vary your approach/line and see improvements.
Above all...
6) Be careful. Noone is out there winning money for their driving in a HPDE event. When organizers say drive '7/10ths' they mean that you need to leave margin out there for room to correct when things to go wrong. You probably will not have a problem because you are going 5mph too slow or leave an extra carwidth on corner exit. If you go through the kink 5mph too fast, or run out of track you can be in deep trouble very quickly. This is particularly true at certain tracks, and RA is one of them. There was alot of new drivers at RA this weekend and at least one of them totaled their car. RA will eat cars because of both driver and mechanical failure, of that there is no question, so it probably would be wise to do your first few events at tracks where the penalty for mistakes is much lower. (tracks like MAM, an Autocross, or something lower speed and without walls/trees/obstacles just off track!) I started out with a small group who ran on a semi driver test course!
When you see Bruce, Damian or Fritz videos, remember they've been doing this for a while and have alot of experience to be able to do what they do. It is alot of fun to be out there no matter what level you're driving at though!
1) You will have alot of stress the first time you go to an event. Doesn't matter where it is, how big it is or what cars are there. There is an initial fear that goes along with the territory. Learning where you are supposed to be, how the format works, all the rules you are supposed to be following etc etc etc. If you don't have the fear, something is probably wrong. This leads me to my second point...
2) Absolutely do not pay any attention to your times or passing people or speed or anything your first few times out. You will not be on line, and not be fast, get over it.
Simplify Simplify Simplify!
What you need to do is have a good instructor, and concentrate on the feel of the car, learn where you are supposed to be on the track, and gauge how the car reacts to inputs, all while paying attention to the rules and ettiquite of the group you are driving with.
Ben was along with us and I encouraged him to point them by as soon as they showed up in the mirror so that he wouldn't be watching what they are doing at all and could concentrate on finding and driving the line. I told him to go around the whole track in 4th gear too, to eliminate that from the equasion. Of course once you start driving the line, you can start to add deeper braking, and then work on heel-toe shifting, then you work on off line driving, etc etc etc. Progress in steps, not leaps.
3) Learn from the guys who have been there before. Everyone fast has someone who has shown them the line. The reason Damian and I get fast quick is because of other people like Bruce or others helping us out. This is not a new hobby, and there are lots of people out there who are good at it already who you can learn from. (Think Fritz at VIR
) Take rides with them whenever possible. It's fun, and you can see what is possible. Don't pay attention to specific markers or speeds, as their car and setup is likely different, but you can get an idea on lines, car control, etc from a ride. That is, once you get past the giddy phase. It might take a few rides if you're like Damian. hahah4) Progress at your pace, not someone else's. Do not let the ego force you to do more than you're ready for. Be comfortable with your speed and group. The guys we were passing Porsche's, C6-Z06, etc are doing exactly what they should be, going at their pace and following the rules.
5) Try to make changes to your driving incrementally, not in large leaps. Try to do two laps in a row the exact same, it's actually hard! Once you can be consistent, you can vary your approach/line and see improvements.
Above all...
6) Be careful. Noone is out there winning money for their driving in a HPDE event. When organizers say drive '7/10ths' they mean that you need to leave margin out there for room to correct when things to go wrong. You probably will not have a problem because you are going 5mph too slow or leave an extra carwidth on corner exit. If you go through the kink 5mph too fast, or run out of track you can be in deep trouble very quickly. This is particularly true at certain tracks, and RA is one of them. There was alot of new drivers at RA this weekend and at least one of them totaled their car. RA will eat cars because of both driver and mechanical failure, of that there is no question, so it probably would be wise to do your first few events at tracks where the penalty for mistakes is much lower. (tracks like MAM, an Autocross, or something lower speed and without walls/trees/obstacles just off track!) I started out with a small group who ran on a semi driver test course!
When you see Bruce, Damian or Fritz videos, remember they've been doing this for a while and have alot of experience to be able to do what they do. It is alot of fun to be out there no matter what level you're driving at though!
11-01-06, 07:00 PM
#59
For the win...
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That was one of the best weekends yet!
Between Noobian, Andy, and Bruce, there was quite a bit of driving knowledge and experience surrounding me!
I got a chance to go on rides with Andy a few times, as well as Damian... they are just insane drivers. When you ride with them, you feel such a sense of pride for the FD... it's like they are being driven the way they were meant to be. "Farming them up at 7/10th's" would be an understatement.
I'm just waiting for Damian to host the footage where he drove 3 feet off Andy's *** for a whole lap... crazy stuff! :P
Turbogarrett: You were in my run group, where we met up a few times. You were putting down much faster times, and slaughtering me in the corners! If a car is going to pass you, it's much less damaging to my pride to give the point by to a fellow FD as opposed to a GT500 I did however let you by on Sunday right before turn 3, with the intention of seeing which of our cars had more pull on the straight... I think you had me, but not by a whole lot, which made me happy. What kind of rwhp are you putting down, 425ish? 
Look forward to seeing you again, hopefully we can move up to B next year and play with the track dawgs!
Fritz: Thanks again for the JDM engine. With it's new ports, it's running like an absolute champion, making much more power then I thought was even possible.
This is defenitly a hobby I will have for many years to come...
-Ben
Between Noobian, Andy, and Bruce, there was quite a bit of driving knowledge and experience surrounding me!
I got a chance to go on rides with Andy a few times, as well as Damian... they are just insane drivers. When you ride with them, you feel such a sense of pride for the FD... it's like they are being driven the way they were meant to be. "Farming them up at 7/10th's" would be an understatement.
I'm just waiting for Damian to host the footage where he drove 3 feet off Andy's *** for a whole lap... crazy stuff! :P
Turbogarrett: You were in my run group, where we met up a few times. You were putting down much faster times, and slaughtering me in the corners! If a car is going to pass you, it's much less damaging to my pride to give the point by to a fellow FD as opposed to a GT500
I did however let you by on Sunday right before turn 3, with the intention of seeing which of our cars had more pull on the straight... I think you had me, but not by a whole lot, which made me happy. What kind of rwhp are you putting down, 425ish? Look forward to seeing you again, hopefully we can move up to B next year and play with the track dawgs!Fritz: Thanks again for the JDM engine. With it's new ports, it's running like an absolute champion, making much more power then I thought was even possible.
This is defenitly a hobby I will have for many years to come...
-Ben
11-01-06, 07:07 PM
#60
Originally Posted by dgeesaman
I've done one track event and I will say that it's not whoopin and hollerin for most people most of the time.
Originally Posted by dgeesaman
It takes a lot of seat time to get comfortable and really learn a track to the point where you can deal with distractions like that and have fun chasing cars without making a serious mistake. Matty, I know what you mean how it can be stressful, but really my experience was that it got much better as the laps counted. And the nicer your car the more stressful it will be - I don't see how to enjoy tracking a really clean car on a regular basis.
Originally Posted by dgeesaman
As for budget, in my very limited experience the cost depends greatly on the mods on the car (more power, more money for tires, fuel, brakes, broken stuff), and how hard you drive (how fast, hot weather, length of sessions). For a mildly modded FD running on street tires with good cooling mods, I'd say you can do a few events a year and not greatly increase your maintenance costs. Think of every track mile being 10 or 100 street miles worth of wear. Add at least a grand per year for race tires. Remember, the entry fees for most track days run at least $100, plus the hundred+ spent on fuel. So while the maintenance costs increase noticeably, your wallet is already been bled quite a bit after just a couple times out.
Dave
Dave
I think my 'budget' for a fun weekend like this one ended up being somewhere around $1000. That doesn't cover anything I break during the weekend or modifications to the car etc.
Now, there are certainly ways to lower the costs. (All of these I do to some degree)
1) Share costs with other participants
2) Slow down (run lower boost, longer lasting tires, let off the gas at the top of 4th gear)
3) Go along for the ride for some events, and don't drive your car
4) Make and sell parts to others once you have tested them on the track
5) Find someone who likes you and mooch off of them...
Thanks Damian, Eric, Bruce, etc etc etc
11-01-06, 07:14 PM
#62
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
any of you guys ever run limerock? how does it compare to some of the other courses u have drove in regards to difficutly?
i got the impression that its a rather tight course and difficult to boot. not to mention not much runoff areas.
what is your favorite beginner type tracks in the NE that you guys could recommend?
i got the impression that its a rather tight course and difficult to boot. not to mention not much runoff areas.
what is your favorite beginner type tracks in the NE that you guys could recommend?
Last edited by matty; 11-01-06 at 07:17 PM.
11-01-06, 07:57 PM
#63
Lime Rock is a pretty good beginner course. There aren't too many places where a mistake will put you into the Armco. There are decent run off areas and I've tried a few myself
Its also a shorter/"slower" track so you're not doing super high speeds compared to other tracks like Watkins Glen or the old Bridgehampton. Those tracks were freakin sick and I miss going to them - especially the Bridge. Slower speeds make it easier to think and react and not worry so much about the fact that you may be approaching a corner at 150mph. If you can get up to 150 on the straight at Lime Rock you're either very fast or about to go off.
I would say that Lime Rock isn't super technical. It has a few tricky turns such as Big Bend and the last turn before the main straight (the dip at the apex scares the crap out of me).
Its also a shorter/"slower" track so you're not doing super high speeds compared to other tracks like Watkins Glen or the old Bridgehampton. Those tracks were freakin sick and I miss going to them - especially the Bridge. Slower speeds make it easier to think and react and not worry so much about the fact that you may be approaching a corner at 150mph. If you can get up to 150 on the straight at Lime Rock you're either very fast or about to go off.
I would say that Lime Rock isn't super technical. It has a few tricky turns such as Big Bend and the last turn before the main straight (the dip at the apex scares the crap out of me).
11-01-06, 08:03 PM
#64
Originally Posted by Rotary4tw
Turbogarrett: You were in my run group, where we met up a few times. You were putting down much faster times, and slaughtering me in the corners! If a car is going to pass you, it's much less damaging to my pride to give the point by to a fellow FD as opposed to a GT500
I did however let you by on Sunday right before turn 3, with the intention of seeing which of our cars had more pull on the straight... I think you had me, but not by a whole lot, which made me happy. What kind of rwhp are you putting down, 425ish? Look forward to seeing you again, hopefully we can move up to B next year and play with the track dawgs!-Ben
I'm hoping to fit a set of ra-1's in the budget for next spring to keep my buddy with a modded sti from catching back up in some of the corners
It's nov. 2nd and you guys got me pumped for track time in april
11-01-06, 08:35 PM
#65
Originally Posted by gracer7-rx7
Lime Rock is a pretty good beginner course. There aren't too many places where a mistake will put you into the Armco. There are decent run off areas and I've tried a few myself
I'm sure some of the old school guys here know the driver.
11-01-06, 09:42 PM
#66
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Originally Posted by turbogarrett
I haven't dyno'd the car for awhile since we tune it on the street now. Last dyno was 402/381, I have since done a couple little things so I would estimate 415-420ish. Your car looks awesome, I absolutely love the paint!
I'm hoping to fit a set of ra-1's in the budget for next spring to keep my buddy with a modded sti from catching back up in some of the corners
It's nov. 2nd and you guys got me pumped for track time in april
I'm hoping to fit a set of ra-1's in the budget for next spring to keep my buddy with a modded sti from catching back up in some of the corners
It's nov. 2nd and you guys got me pumped for track time in april
11-01-06, 09:49 PM
#67
Originally Posted by Mahjik
That may be true, but I have an old video of an RX-7 going off at Lime Rock and rolling onto the roof. I'm sure some of the old school guys here know the driver.
I'm sure some of the old school guys here know the driver.I've seen more than that in person over the duration of my track days at all 3 of the tracks I mentioned - and on the street too...
11-01-06, 09:53 PM
#68
There is some good advice in this thread, I know I will be nervous as hell when I take my FD on the track for the first time.
Yeah, I have definitely witnessed quite a few 'mishaps' when flagging for NASA. Thankfully 95% of the HPDE sessions go smoothly and without incident. Those racers like to keep us on our toes though! lol
Originally Posted by gracer7-rx7
Shh! Don't scare him now.
I've seen more than that in person over the duration of my track days at all 3 of the tracks I mentioned - and on the street too...
I've seen more than that in person over the duration of my track days at all 3 of the tracks I mentioned - and on the street too...
11-01-06, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by turbogarrett
Yep, he actually runs a paintless dent repair buisness, the plate "gt dnts" is supposed to mean "got dents", but most people see "got donuts"
11-01-06, 10:09 PM
#71
Originally Posted by afterburn27
Yeah, I have definitely witnessed quite a few 'mishaps' when flagging for NASA. Thankfully 95% of the HPDE sessions go smoothly and without incident. Those racers like to keep us on our toes though! lol
Hehe. I know what you mean. I flag for the other karting classes when I'm not racing in my class - or fixing something....
11-02-06, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Tim Benton
I was thinking Damian sounded like Dirty Sanchez from the bangbus.com videos...saying "yeah dude" and laugh often Just glad I didn't hear him saying "hit it dude, nice!"
Tim
Just glad I didn't hear him saying "hit it dude, nice!"Tim
11-02-06, 11:49 AM
#75
Originally Posted by Tim Benton
I was thinking Damian sounded like Dirty Sanchez from the bangbus.com videos...saying "yeah dude" and laugh often Just glad I didn't hear him saying "hit it dude, nice!"
Tim
Just glad I didn't hear him saying "hit it dude, nice!"Tim
[chick pulls off her underwear]
Damian: It's a GT3!!