Well i spent all day trying to start the car again, did all the proper flooding procedures, atf... ect...

I put the car together and start cranking. it wouldent start, Although i got it to the point where it felt like it really wanted to start but just couldent, so i held the pedal to teh floor while cranking it as fast as it would and it cought fire.

I held the car up at 3k rpms and it sounded abosolutly horrible, tons of somke coming out the tailpipe and my friend heard a sound kinda like something snapping then breaking from the turbo area. (hes really unfamiliar with rotarys though)

the car wouldent even come close to being able to idle and i couldent get it started again...

i had it running for about 1 minute before the noise when i promptly shut it off.

What does this sound like? turbos, engine, coolant seal?

Mike

 

what happen in the first place to bring the car down?

Snapping coulda been anything.. take take the word of someone who dosent know FD's. the snap he heard coulda been anything.. Hopefully it wasent what was left of an Apex seal flying into your turbos... :-/

 

The car has been sitting for about 3 months while i was away at college.. it has been started once since then, but i havent been able to get it to start since i was on spring break about 3 weeks ago.

 

wow, i think i'll have a heart attack if i start my car up and hear that noise..

i even panic like crazy when i hear the occasional light pinging after shutdown..

but what happened after you heard that terrible noise?

im thinking of something cracking and finally broke off and flew somewhere..maybe?

 

hey trans am.....i had a similar problem. my map sensor was knocked off and it was flooded. tried to keep starting it but it was hard to get it to idel and kept flooding. when i reconeected the map sensor everything was fine. had to get new sparkplugs though. kvn

 

why would the engine sound so bad while rev'd to 3k though?

 

A compression test would be a good idea at this point.

 

If your map sensor is popped off your ecu doesnt know whats going on and is protecting the engine i believe.

 

the atf will make a lot of smoke come out of your tail pipe (if you had a cat/precat, its probally dead now...) so thats totally normal

in anycase, did it run before you went to college? and why did you not have soemone start it every week adn warm it up? your not storing it at some ones house? dont tell me you just left it on the street for 3months.

as for what it possibly could be, i doubt its a coolant seal if it ran perfectly before hand, and even if your turbos were seized, you engine would still run so its not that. could be a few things from clogged/stuck injectors to your fuel system not getting enuf pressure. id do a compression test (even if its by using a cheap compression gauge) and check your sparkplugs and for spark on each of the plugs. also check to see if your actually getting fuel to the engine (perhaps its low or perhaps something fell off)

 

Theres always carbon issues, carbon lock etc, compression test then evaluate the readings. Disconnect the turbos so nothing else/can go in the intake.

 

Agree, only way to really know if there is anything wrong with the motor itself which is the "more expensive" and important peice of the equation. It amazes me how everyone is so quick to jump the gun to a map sensor on this forum when anyone has the first sight of a problem, when no one even said what color the smoke was.

After the ATF you should have huge clouds of smoke, enough to encase your whole house for a couple minutes but it should be a "grayish" color. As far as the sound, Side seals for $300.00 Alex? (Would explain rough idle, not being able to start it again) Although it could be something more minor. But the CT should tell you this.

 

You may want to drain your fuel tank and put fresh fuel in also,as it's been standing for quite some time.

 

In Canada, the FD sits for 6 months.

I just started mine up last week.

Started on the first crank instantly. A bit more smoke than normal, let it warm up. Took it for a spin, ran like a champ.

As stated, I wouldn't worry about the smoke if you used ATF. Check the MAP sensor hose, and get a compression check.

Did you put in any fuel stabilizer?

 

This was my first expeirience trying to compression test a rotary but i pulled the bottom plug, and cranked the engine while holding the pressure release on the tester...

The tester would do something like 10/10/30/10/10/30

im not sure if these 10's were the corners of the apex going around though?


then i put it on the front rotor and and couldnet get ANY compression at all... cranked and cranked but not a single bit of pressure?

is my engine gone?

 

wow...... i've only seen similar readins like that once or twice before.

There are plenty of threads on correct methods to do the CT test on.

but if you had remotely close readings it's gone

prolly was running on one rotor (why it was a pain to start). Then the second one let go for roughly the same reason (snapping sound).Nnow you have no good rotors so it won't start.

Of course this is all guess but makes sense.

now all you can do is hope the rotor gods liked your housings/rotors

 

I hope its not your engine man. We still got a group buy to do. lol. Good luck, and get that compression tested.

 

this would mean my turbos have been wiped too right?

 

not 100 percent

could just be cracked seals and are still sitting in there

 

is it possible to get absolutly no compression on a rotor... i mean the car was working perfect when i parked it, the only thing is that i left the keys with my father and brother and i know they drove it a little

but again, no compression at all? i find it hard to swallow that im missing 2 seals on the front rotor and 1 on the rear... any thoughts? maybe i wasent testing it right?

i used the leading plug hole and held the throttle open.

 

pull the plug

turn car over

listen

you can tell.........listen for a nice compression rythm.



It's not done easily. That's why i was impressed

i did a rebuild/motor swap for a guy and the engine he had befor pulled an impressive 10-10-30.

i still marvel at that engine..i'll break it open next week to laugh at.......

I might look worse than my Carbon filled-oil control leak'n-rotor of death. The apex seals couldn't even move as it was lined with carbon from burning oil....and i drove that car from IN to IA.......after i bought it..

sorry for the tangent but seriously pull the plug and listen. For most instances you don't need a guage.

 

This sounds like carbon lock of the apex seals in their grooves. How many miles on the engine? Did you actually drive the car the last time you started it? If so, how hard did you drive it? Sometimes just cranking the engine and letting it run isn't enough. The old brittle carbon will always be present.

 

First, when compression testing, you should completely remove the schrader valve. Holding the relief valve down will not give accurate results due to the fact that pressure is being bled off. The schrader valve (looks like a bicycle tire valve) is usually located at the end of the flex tube. Unscrew it to take it out.

Second, compression tests should be done with the engine warm if at all possible. Since it sounds like that's not something you want to do right now, then remember that cold compression numbers are not exactly accurate.

Third, make sure you pull a plug out of BOTH rotors when doing a compression test (I use the trailing plugs). This will help the engine to crank a little easier. If cranking speed is slow, compression numbers will be low.

As people have mentioned, carbon seized apex seals is a very real possibility. I had this problem once, and I tried a few oz's of Marvels Mystery Oil. It broke the carbon loose, and I have never again had a sticking seal.

Another possibility (although, I don't think this is the case with your car) is an issue with your coolant seals. If coolant gets into the combustion chamber and you let the car sit for a long period of time, internal components can begin to rust. This has a tendancy to lock seals in place. There is a possibility that MMO can clean this up somewhat too.


Rob

 

sounds like a carbon locked engine. You should try the ATF trick one more time. Let it sit to soak in properly. Change/clean plugs and do some praying....if not...she's blown.

 

you dont' remove both plugs.......

cold or hot it's not going to make 80 psi difference

just the uneven readings are a sign

if he is even close to those numbers you can tell by listening.

even with the check valve in you should get a higher reading than what he got. The reason you take it out so you can observe each rotors faces compression. Check valve only takes the max reading.

If he can't build more than 30psi with a check valve and not releasing it -that tells an ugly story.

If he used atf it could have broke carbon off and caused it to chunk a seal (that breaking sound).

that engine I mentioned above was a ridiculous case of cabon locked seals. When I tore the engine down there was oil and carbon sitting in the housings. I could still get compression on it (not anywhere near good but enought to start it under it's own power).

how many mile are on it btw

 

I didn't say both plugs out of one rotor, I said ONE plug from each rotor at the same time (exaclt how you are supposed to do it according to FSM). This will allow the motor to turn over easier. It can easily make a difference in compression reading. Quote from page C-9 of FSM:

"4. Remove front AND rear trailing-side spark plugs"


I never said it was going to make an 80psi difference. But if you are going to go through the trouble to do a compression test, you should do it correctly. All those little nuiances can add up to make a significant difference.


He never stated that he couldn't get more than 30 without holing the relief valve. I don't even think he tested this. (XS said the way he tested was by holding the relief valve down. As I said this will cause bad readings as part of the pressure is vented. Removing the schrader valve, instead of holding the button will give more accurate results).

Yeah, that's very possible. But most of the carbon-buildup cases in FDs I've seen, just result in sticking seals. Once the carbon is freed up (using atf or mmo), then often it's not an issue anymore. I kind of doubt he had enough carbon to blow out two (or more) apex seals.