Healing

You sure about that? In BMI Vol. 25, HVI Tuner Battle Royale, it took RE-Amemiya a 6 speed, 3 rotor N/A PP (400HP) @ 2425 lbs to hit 59"688. A semi, if not fully, race prepped FD. The Mines R34 hit 57"996, although it did have a turbo and 200 more HP, but also weighed 3414 lbs...

BTW, In my opinion, I'd say an S2000 handles better than the FD, having driven both...

GregFD3S

It depends on the model FD though, an R1 handles better than a Touring.

Kevin T. Wyum

I think you explained it yourself, that was his NA car. A turbo cars going to be putting out a lot more than 400hp.

Kevin T. Wyum

Healing

Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention, RE-Amemiya set up that 3 rotor on a completely stock suspension...<_<

Sorry, couldn't help myself ^_^

That's not to say that adding a turbo onto that will significantly shorten the FD's lap time on that track. There's only one real straightaway on Tsukuba circuit where all of that power is really put to use. But it might...

Kevin T. Wyum

Power helps everywhere all else being equal. It's not just the straights, it's coming out of EVERY turn it helps.

mirabile

Got a chance to drive this one for a while, and it is no joke...
http://car-reviews.automobile.com/Mi...-preview/1574/

Kevin T. Wyum

With respect to the topic of the thread I think people are missing the real issue. Yes a company could build a car that handles better than the FD but the problem is they don't think there's a market for a "pure sports car" and end up making trades that detract from the handling to add things like creature comforts or a ride that a 50 year old and his wife would be willing to tolerate, ed: Corvette. I doubt the S2000 would really keep up when driven on the edge, I'm sure a hardtop chassis with a little more power would be every bit as good though. It's tough to make roadsters handle as well. A lotus with more power would really be the thing to take out an FD on the track. They're kind of the same concept with the lotus being a tiny bit down on power over what I think it should really have. I'd be afraid to own a lotus on the basis of quality concerns, and yes I know how bad FD's can be.

KeloidJonesJr.

iTrader: (8)

If you mean less stopping distance, it's probably because the A80 has a higher mass than FD. If my physics knowledge serves me correctly, mass is a factor in fuel efficiency and friction, in this case, braking.

Kevin T. Wyum

Are you suggesting the higher mass causing slightly higher friction in the wheel bearings and tires is going to offset the additional force needed to accelerate (negative) the much heavier car to a stop? Extremely unlikely unless they're some of the worst bearings out there. I'd guess the Supra just has a better ABS unit than the RX7.

Healing

But you can agree that there's a certain point you reach, where you really aren't using all the power that you have at your disposal. Having more and more power yields diminishing returns in terms of its usefulness on the track...

Honestly, in terms of handling, I still think the S2000 is better than the FD, stock for stock (which is my only basis for comparison). Even though its a roadster, it has Hondas special X-bone chassis, and you can feel its stiffness when you drive it. Just as how Mazda found a way to make a chassis even stiffer than that of the FD in the RX-8 with 4 seats (According to Best Motoring, at least), Honda has made a roadster with stiffness at least equal to that of hard topped cars. That, and its suspension is top notch as well. I'm very confident in the ability of the S2000 to match/exceed that of not only the FD, but NSX and other sports cars in its class as well.

mirabile

I am going to agree that the S2k handles very well, even though I am selling it in the for sale thread haha. However I am still holding that this 220 hp mini felt like it would kick its ***.

MisterX

Convertibles like the S2000 can certainly have strong bending rigidity numbers, but what about torsional? I don't think a car with its roof cut off can compare to a coupe, do you?

GregFD3S

Click here to see Video

mirabile

This is your example of why an RX-7 outhandles a S2000?


Find 2 stock ones going at it.

sevensix

iTrader: (1)

^ it doesn't need to be two stock vehicles.

if the fd came out of factory with 185's all around would you compare it to a s2000 with 255s? lol. would u compare a s2000 with one of those SP edition rx7s?

theres never been a good way to equalize 2 cars to decide conclusively which one is better.

maybe if 2 cars were matched up with power to weight and on different types of courses etc. even then there are too many other factors that will give 1 an advantage over another.

btw in the video it looks like the fd is making 380rwhp and the s2000 only 256? in the next episode the fd did beat a 500(600) hp skyline on that same course though, i think in the touge final.. haha.

GregFD3S

...its a fairly good example in my opinion.

I have also driven an M3, S2000 and an EVO. I have spent time on the track with my RX7 and nothing compares to it.

I have heard from many people that the RX7 is almost unrivaled when it comes to handling. There are only a few cars that are parallel to its handling performance.

my 2 cents.

jimlab

Nope, just bigger brakes and wider tires.

mirabile

Comparing tuner cars is a horrible example.
Your comparing the tuners, and the drivers of those cars, not the stock ones.
I have spent time in numerous cars as well, and as amazing as the RX7 is, more modern technology has taken over.
The Rx7 can compete with any car on a skidpad, the highest numbers I can find on a totally stock car is .97g in most tests I have.
If someone has a better one on a stocker please show it.
The numbers below are pulled off various car and driver road tests.
The Rx has a better number then any S2000 I can find, the best numbers being around.91g
Now for the modern technology and some kit cars, which are pulling over a 1.0g
Factory 5 Racing Mark II Roadster- 1.02g - look it up if you have never seen it
Caterham 7 Superlight - 1.02g
Dodge Viper .96g
NSX .93g
C4- 911 .95g
LOTUS ELISE at 1.06g (Holy Hell)
Corvette Z06 is up there but I cant find reliable numbers.
The Rx7 is very impressive even today, but not when you start trying to find cars with better skidpad numbers...

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

And it needs them.

sevensix

iTrader: (1)

comparing STOCK NUMBERS has all the same downfalls as comparing tuned vehicles.

mirabile

WTF does that mean?
Its totally different.
The goal is to compare factory numbers to see how the RX7 handles compared to modern stock cars. Read the thread.

sevensix

iTrader: (1)

why hello

these discussions never get anywhere lol.

mirabile

Haha sevensix please talk some sense....

Natey

iTrader: (19)

IMO, a '72 914-6 could come damn close...and it's another 20 years older than the FD!

handling's all about adding lightness. Lotus (for one example) proved that long ago.

Healing

Well, seeing as how the "bending" actions of a car are probably far less significant compared to the torsional actions a car sees during hard driving, I might suggest that that was what we were talking of in the first place.
And this begs the question - how stiff does a chassis need to be for it to be a good production sports car? You can say that this car is X times stiffer than this car, but does it make a difference when driving it? The fact is that the S2000 is a stiff, capable performer, whether or not you like the car.

Nice video. This might actually show how close the FD and S2000 are in its handling capabilities, as the FD doesn't exactly destroy the S2000.