Bushings
03-08-12, 06:58 AM
#1
Bushings
Hey I was wondering whats the best type of bushings to get for my 93 Rx7? Im not going to track or drag, just looking for regular daily driving ones. Ive done a search but didnt come up with much.
Ive seen some like this.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rx-7-Rx7-FD-...ht_1013wt_1270
I dont want to buy off ebay so can someone send me in the right direction?
Thanks
-Dan
Ive seen some like this.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rx-7-Rx7-FD-...ht_1013wt_1270
I dont want to buy off ebay so can someone send me in the right direction?
Thanks
-Dan
03-08-12, 07:30 AM
#2
I have personal experience with Power Flex bushings.
http://www.powerflexusa.com/
As you will see from their site, they sell a COMPLETE kit for the FD. Every control arm, diff mount, and even the steering rack. These bushings are extremely high quality, from the grease right down to the packaging. I have been nothing short of very happy with them. Their customer service is on point as well.
When I was looking, I kept coming back to Power Flex. They are cheaper than OEM, way cheaper than Mazdaspeed, more complete then SuperPro, and more friendly than Delrin. For me, these Poly bushings are the way to go. I realize some people complain of the stiffness on the street, but I just don't see it. I beleive much of this comes down to their spring & dampener setup. I have Apexi 7-way shocks on Eibach Prokit springs. From street to track, I can see these bushings performing very well. My car is strictly a performance street car, and I have ZERO complaints. This is coming from a guy that kept his A/C when going Vmount, so you see I'm not Johnny hardcore street car.
They transformed my FD. Tight, precise, solid and fresh. Fitment was excellent. I would buy these bushings every single time.
My suspension thread shows a few pics.
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/chassis-prepared-pics-886606/
http://www.powerflexusa.com/
As you will see from their site, they sell a COMPLETE kit for the FD. Every control arm, diff mount, and even the steering rack. These bushings are extremely high quality, from the grease right down to the packaging. I have been nothing short of very happy with them. Their customer service is on point as well.
When I was looking, I kept coming back to Power Flex. They are cheaper than OEM, way cheaper than Mazdaspeed, more complete then SuperPro, and more friendly than Delrin. For me, these Poly bushings are the way to go. I realize some people complain of the stiffness on the street, but I just don't see it. I beleive much of this comes down to their spring & dampener setup. I have Apexi 7-way shocks on Eibach Prokit springs. From street to track, I can see these bushings performing very well. My car is strictly a performance street car, and I have ZERO complaints. This is coming from a guy that kept his A/C when going Vmount, so you see I'm not Johnny hardcore street car.
They transformed my FD. Tight, precise, solid and fresh. Fitment was excellent. I would buy these bushings every single time.
My suspension thread shows a few pics.
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/chassis-prepared-pics-886606/
03-08-12, 07:33 AM
#3
03-08-12, 08:38 AM
#5
Edit: Power Flex kit is $800. Either way, still a deal. Also from their site:
We can custom order in durometers ranging from 70A(Yellow), 80A(Purple), and 95A(Black). 70A is slightly harder than rubber and works great for drivers looking for a slight increase in chassis response. 70A is not suggested in certain location due to its lack of rigidity. 80A is noticeably harder than rubber and makes a great performance street material that retails low levels of NVH. 95A is the hardest, and can be used in certain locations with minimal NVH. For most locations, 95A is used for aggressive/track use only. Custom durometer bushing sets take at least 4 weeks for delivery.
I purchased the purple, and they were perfect.
http://store.powerflexusa.com/mazda-...hings-p71.aspx
We can custom order in durometers ranging from 70A(Yellow), 80A(Purple), and 95A(Black). 70A is slightly harder than rubber and works great for drivers looking for a slight increase in chassis response. 70A is not suggested in certain location due to its lack of rigidity. 80A is noticeably harder than rubber and makes a great performance street material that retails low levels of NVH. 95A is the hardest, and can be used in certain locations with minimal NVH. For most locations, 95A is used for aggressive/track use only. Custom durometer bushing sets take at least 4 weeks for delivery.
I purchased the purple, and they were perfect.
http://store.powerflexusa.com/mazda-...hings-p71.aspx
03-08-12, 09:12 AM
#6
I would also like to strongly suggest the Powerflex. Purchased them in December. I believe there is a vendor on the Forum....Juan...who is selling these so you might wish to touch base with him.
Other items to consider: If you are buying or are considering buying after market trailing arms, toe links and end links which tend to use nice spherical/heim bushings you will not need the entire kit from Powerflex.
The best pillowball replacement bushings were from Atomic Rex in the UK but they are allegedly having serious business issues and I couldn't recommend a purchase from them at this point in time...so that leaves OEM...although from what I understand someone in the US may be coming up with an alternative to the Atomic Rex kit.
I recently redid my suspension: Improved Racing Trailing Arms, Toelinks, and front/rear endlinks, Atomic Rex Pillow ***** and everything else Powerflex. IIRC this was $1400 or so.
Edit: Juan's profile - https://www.rx7club.com/members/juan-4/
Other items to consider: If you are buying or are considering buying after market trailing arms, toe links and end links which tend to use nice spherical/heim bushings you will not need the entire kit from Powerflex.
The best pillowball replacement bushings were from Atomic Rex in the UK but they are allegedly having serious business issues and I couldn't recommend a purchase from them at this point in time...so that leaves OEM...although from what I understand someone in the US may be coming up with an alternative to the Atomic Rex kit.
I recently redid my suspension: Improved Racing Trailing Arms, Toelinks, and front/rear endlinks, Atomic Rex Pillow ***** and everything else Powerflex. IIRC this was $1400 or so.
Edit: Juan's profile - https://www.rx7club.com/members/juan-4/
03-08-12, 09:34 AM
#7
F'n Newbie...
iTrader: (6)
My thoughts are that they were, no ****, designed specifically for the car during the same R&D process that put everything else together. The majority of cars still probably have those original bushings in them and there hasn't been some catastrophic failure from them across the community. So I know I can pay a little extra now and have something that has been tested and proven to work very well, and last damned near 20 years.
Trust me, I've upgraded or replaced damned near everything in my car except for the doors, trunk, seats, and steering wheel. I'm not some "factory or it's rice" purist, but in this case why deviate from stock unless you have to?
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03-08-12, 10:45 AM
#8
I have personal experience with Power Flex bushings.
http://www.powerflexusa.com/
As you will see from their site, they sell a COMPLETE kit for the FD. Every control arm, diff mount, and even the steering rack. These bushings are extremely high quality, from the grease right down to the packaging. I have been nothing short of very happy with them. Their customer service is on point as well.
When I was looking, I kept coming back to Power Flex. They are cheaper than OEM, way cheaper than Mazdaspeed, more complete then SuperPro, and more friendly than Delrin. For me, these Poly bushings are the way to go. I realize some people complain of the stiffness on the street, but I just don't see it. I beleive much of this comes down to their spring & dampener setup. I have Apexi 7-way shocks on Eibach Prokit springs. From street to track, I can see these bushings performing very well. My car is strictly a performance street car, and I have ZERO complaints. This is coming from a guy that kept his A/C when going Vmount, so you see I'm not Johnny hardcore street car.
They transformed my FD. Tight, precise, solid and fresh. Fitment was excellent. I would buy these bushings every single time.
My suspension thread shows a few pics.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=886606
http://www.powerflexusa.com/
As you will see from their site, they sell a COMPLETE kit for the FD. Every control arm, diff mount, and even the steering rack. These bushings are extremely high quality, from the grease right down to the packaging. I have been nothing short of very happy with them. Their customer service is on point as well.
When I was looking, I kept coming back to Power Flex. They are cheaper than OEM, way cheaper than Mazdaspeed, more complete then SuperPro, and more friendly than Delrin. For me, these Poly bushings are the way to go. I realize some people complain of the stiffness on the street, but I just don't see it. I beleive much of this comes down to their spring & dampener setup. I have Apexi 7-way shocks on Eibach Prokit springs. From street to track, I can see these bushings performing very well. My car is strictly a performance street car, and I have ZERO complaints. This is coming from a guy that kept his A/C when going Vmount, so you see I'm not Johnny hardcore street car.
They transformed my FD. Tight, precise, solid and fresh. Fitment was excellent. I would buy these bushings every single time.
My suspension thread shows a few pics.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=886606
03-08-12, 10:52 AM
#9
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For a street car, with regular daily driving, I'd suggest staying with the factory rubber.
They have a proven durability track record.
Factory will me quieter and more comfortable, and still perform VERY well.
Solid bushings will be harsher, and impart more impact energy to other components (probably not a bigee though).
They have a proven durability track record.
Factory will me quieter and more comfortable, and still perform VERY well.
Solid bushings will be harsher, and impart more impact energy to other components (probably not a bigee though).
03-08-12, 12:01 PM
#10
Another route to go is to contact Japan2LA here on the forum. I bought a low mileage rear suspension kit from him which not only included the bushings but also the pieces they are in such as lower control arm, toe links, and stuff. So you get low mileage bushings and low mileage suspension components. I got lower control arms, upper control arms, toe link, trailing arm, for both sides and the diff mount for under $600. It eliminated my rear end klunk and tightened the car up. Plus you could still sell your old suspension parts to further reduce your cost.
03-08-12, 04:15 PM
#11
Hey, from what I see you have to buy them all individually "Powerflex bushings do not come in complete chassis kits. Our bushings come à la carte to fit each customer's needs*" Which totals 899 + Shipping, which is still cheaper than OEM. How hard was it installing these?
Yes, when I say "kit", I mean all the bushings they make. I bought mine from JKL before I realized they sell them from the factory website. They sold them as a kit.
Do you plan to have your car in 10 years? I do. When the OEM rubber starts to lose its durameter, the poly bushings will be going strong. Cheaper, stiffer, and more durable than the OEM rubber bushings. I have had a few different shock and spring setups on my car, but all had the same Super Pro bushings. From the annoyingly stiff JIC's that I sold, to the perfect setup I have now, the bushings were never too harsh, only the spring and dampener setup.
As far as installation, piece of cake. There are quite a few write-ups on this, as they are basically the same. If you have a press, its a synch. With the right spacers or socket set, the OEM bushings can be pressed out easily. Its kind of fun. I used the press at the hobby shop on base. Honestly, if I didn't have access to one, I would buy one from Harbor Freight for $150. Well worth owning one for future jobs. Pushing the new ones in can be done with a simple vice. Utilize all the grease provided.
Great time to polish those control arms
And OF COURSE, replace those pillow ball mounts.....
03-09-12, 12:22 PM
#14
I want to put new bushings in my FD eventually because I love how solid my FC feels with poly and Mazda competition bushings/mounts.
I feel like I have a lot of research to do on the FD though as Mazda used more complex "sliding bushings" on the FD and switching to Poly will alter/negate the suspension dynamics built into the bushings.
At the moment I am thinking the Mazda competition bushings seem like a good compromise as they will include the "sliding bushing" design but will be a higher durometer.
Then again I really liked the effects of negating the suspension dynamics built into the FC with the rear bushings: however, the FD seems like a more performance oriented chassis and not trying to be as safe for idiot drivers as the FC.
Anyone else considering suspension dynamics when they choose solid poly bushings?
I feel like I have a lot of research to do on the FD though as Mazda used more complex "sliding bushings" on the FD and switching to Poly will alter/negate the suspension dynamics built into the bushings.
At the moment I am thinking the Mazda competition bushings seem like a good compromise as they will include the "sliding bushing" design but will be a higher durometer.
Then again I really liked the effects of negating the suspension dynamics built into the FC with the rear bushings: however, the FD seems like a more performance oriented chassis and not trying to be as safe for idiot drivers as the FC.
Anyone else considering suspension dynamics when they choose solid poly bushings?
03-09-12, 02:13 PM
#15
I want to put new bushings in my FD eventually because I love how solid my FC feels with poly and Mazda competition bushings/mounts.
I feel like I have a lot of research to do on the FD though as Mazda used more complex "sliding bushings" on the FD and switching to Poly will alter/negate the suspension dynamics built into the bushings.
At the moment I am thinking the Mazda competition bushings seem like a good compromise as they will include the "sliding bushing" design but will be a higher durometer.
Then again I really liked the effects of negating the suspension dynamics built into the FC with the rear bushings: however, the FD seems like a more performance oriented chassis and not trying to be as safe for idiot drivers as the FC.
Anyone else considering suspension dynamics when they choose solid poly bushings?
I feel like I have a lot of research to do on the FD though as Mazda used more complex "sliding bushings" on the FD and switching to Poly will alter/negate the suspension dynamics built into the bushings.
At the moment I am thinking the Mazda competition bushings seem like a good compromise as they will include the "sliding bushing" design but will be a higher durometer.
Then again I really liked the effects of negating the suspension dynamics built into the FC with the rear bushings: however, the FD seems like a more performance oriented chassis and not trying to be as safe for idiot drivers as the FC.
Anyone else considering suspension dynamics when they choose solid poly bushings?
The FD's suspension is superior because of its unequal length control arm design. Its geometry induces negative camber under bump. Many modern sports cars didn't switch to this until about 10 years later....
Its so funny that some will be undecided on the poly bushings and worrying about stiffness, but they will be the first to go out and buy one of the MANY coilover setups with waaaaaay too stiff spring rates.
I can only speak from my personal experience with the Power Flex bushings..... They rock.
03-09-12, 04:22 PM
#16
I don't have any practical experience with the FD bushings but what I understand the "sliding" bushing design refers to the fact that the bushings are designed to deflect front to back as well as pivot around their center bores.
The deflection was engineered to provide "Dynamic Geometry Control System" as outlined in pages 99 to 103 in Yamaguchi's "RX-7".
The photos and schematics of the front and rear control arm bushings on page 97 clearly show the built up construction of the "sliding rubber bushing" on all four of the inboard pivots for the front suspension arms and three inboard pivots to the rear suspension arms and one on the upper outboard location.
First I had heard of "sliding bushings" is when Mazda introduced the RX-8 and they said they simplified the suspension design for more straightforward, pure handling characteristics by using standard bushings instead of the RX-7s "sliding bushings" trickery.
From my experience on the FC I believe I might like the FD without the "dynamic geometry control", but I was seeing if anyone else had any input.
The deflection was engineered to provide "Dynamic Geometry Control System" as outlined in pages 99 to 103 in Yamaguchi's "RX-7".
The photos and schematics of the front and rear control arm bushings on page 97 clearly show the built up construction of the "sliding rubber bushing" on all four of the inboard pivots for the front suspension arms and three inboard pivots to the rear suspension arms and one on the upper outboard location.
First I had heard of "sliding bushings" is when Mazda introduced the RX-8 and they said they simplified the suspension design for more straightforward, pure handling characteristics by using standard bushings instead of the RX-7s "sliding bushings" trickery.
From my experience on the FC I believe I might like the FD without the "dynamic geometry control", but I was seeing if anyone else had any input.
03-09-12, 04:31 PM
#17
I can't find the Yamaguchi book's bit on Dynamic Geometry Control, but here is a little blurb with a simple explanation and without the cool pics and diagrams.
http://www.mazdafun.com/rx7%20%20double%20wishbone.htm
http://www.mazdafun.com/rx7%20%20double%20wishbone.htm
03-09-12, 07:12 PM
#18
I can't find the Yamaguchi book's bit on Dynamic Geometry Control, but here is a little blurb with a simple explanation and without the cool pics and diagrams.
http://www.mazdafun.com/rx7%20%20double%20wishbone.htm
http://www.mazdafun.com/rx7%20%20double%20wishbone.htm
03-10-12, 01:29 AM
#19
Polyurethane bushings are a great upgrade over stock. They're comfortable for daily drivers, they add very little noise, and are virtually maintenance free. Delrin bushings are noisy, harsh, and require re-greasing every now and then. I'd say delrin are better suited for full blown track cars that are torn apart for maintenance frequently.
Check my website www.j-automotive.com or click on the buttons in my sig to check out the bushing packages I have for sale. I've got free shipping on bushing kits right now. SuperPro is an awesome product for the price while Powerflex come with a lifetime warranty. I'm an authorized dealer/installer for Powerflex and SuperPro bushings and offer tech support in case you run into issues when installing your bushings.
Check my website www.j-automotive.com or click on the buttons in my sig to check out the bushing packages I have for sale. I've got free shipping on bushing kits right now. SuperPro is an awesome product for the price while Powerflex come with a lifetime warranty. I'm an authorized dealer/installer for Powerflex and SuperPro bushings and offer tech support in case you run into issues when installing your bushings.
03-10-12, 10:35 AM
#20
Juan - In regards to the Powerflex Diff Crossmember Bushing the "ridges" that act as dust covers have 2 different sizes. Which way should they specifically be pressed in? Larger diameter to the outside (facing the wheel) or to the inside (facing the other bushing)?
Thank you!
Thank you!
03-10-12, 06:38 PM
#22
Other choice is the 40% harder Mazdacomp bushings.
F128 series
F128-28-380 Upper shock mounts f/r ~ 58
F128-28-42Y rear toe control, inner ~ 89
F128-28-460 rear lower arm, inner ~ 72
F128-28-52Y rear trailing link ~ 63
F128-28-8C0 rear upper arm, inner ~ 79
F128-28-890 Diff Mounts ~ 92
F128-34-460 front lower control arm , front inner ~ 88
F128-34-470 front lower control arem, back inner ~99
F128-34-471 front lower control arem bussings ~ 36
F128-34-480 front upper conttrol arm, inner ~72
F128-39-040 Engine Mount #1 ~435
F128-39-050A Engine Mount #2 ~360
F128 series
F128-28-380 Upper shock mounts f/r ~ 58
F128-28-42Y rear toe control, inner ~ 89
F128-28-460 rear lower arm, inner ~ 72
F128-28-52Y rear trailing link ~ 63
F128-28-8C0 rear upper arm, inner ~ 79
F128-28-890 Diff Mounts ~ 92
F128-34-460 front lower control arm , front inner ~ 88
F128-34-470 front lower control arem, back inner ~99
F128-34-471 front lower control arem bussings ~ 36
F128-34-480 front upper conttrol arm, inner ~72
F128-39-040 Engine Mount #1 ~435
F128-39-050A Engine Mount #2 ~360
.
03-11-12, 12:19 PM
#24
Honestly, I havent received a complaint about the noise to this day and you can find people on this forum reviewing these bushings without mentioning added noise. The bushings themselves dont squeak, creak, or make noises but I wont lie and flat out say that you will not get an increase in noise inside the cabin. The noise increase is very minimal, almost non-existant and hasnt been a deal breaker for local customers who've ridden in FD's with poly bushings including mine. The 70A bushings will be silent but are more expensive (special order) and don't carry the lifetime warranty due to the fact that Powerflex didnt see this durometer fit for an FD.
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