Blew it up real good. :-) where to go from here.
Any damage to the turbine blades?
doubt it was timing related or octane related with the AI, sounds like a chipped seal which is almost always caused by a lean condition overheating the tip of the apex seal and blowing it out with a nice sharp detonation cycle. sure he said it was in the 10's but a lean spike can happen before your readout box can even send the signal to your eyes.
i guess even ALS aren't immune to the same failures but i would like to see if that is what happened. seen the same with RA super seals but yet with Goopy racing seals.
could be the engine twisted but managed to not break an iron, just enough to pinch a seal into the rotor groove, this is tricky as the engine would have to twist just a little to cause rotor to housing contact without breaking anything, noted by 5 quarts of oil ejected from the engine in less than a minute. twisting is usually attributed to too far of advanced timing, sometimes just naturally in big horsepower builds without pinning or studs.
i guess even ALS aren't immune to the same failures but i would like to see if that is what happened. seen the same with RA super seals but yet with Goopy racing seals.
could be the engine twisted but managed to not break an iron, just enough to pinch a seal into the rotor groove, this is tricky as the engine would have to twist just a little to cause rotor to housing contact without breaking anything, noted by 5 quarts of oil ejected from the engine in less than a minute. twisting is usually attributed to too far of advanced timing, sometimes just naturally in big horsepower builds without pinning or studs.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 814
Likes: 7
From: Charlotte NC
It was a old manifold built by Ray Wilson. I bought it off someone that did a part out on their car. I got the manifold, downpipe, and full exhaust.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 814
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From: Charlotte NC
Ok been waiting on some new corner seals.
Kevin from South Coast Rotary sent me a set of solid corner seals and his side seals. Great guy to deal with. Answered my call at 4am Australian time..... I didn't do the math so I ended up calling him at that crazy hour. He answered and was quite pleasant. But anyways I just have to pick up a set of als seals from allrotor93 and the motor will be back together.
Kevin from South Coast Rotary sent me a set of solid corner seals and his side seals. Great guy to deal with. Answered my call at 4am Australian time..... I didn't do the math so I ended up calling him at that crazy hour. He answered and was quite pleasant. But anyways I just have to pick up a set of als seals from allrotor93 and the motor will be back together.
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: FL-->NJ/NYC again!
Why solid corner seals? I'm not sure those would have saved you looking at those carnage pics 
If you're going for strength consider having them cryo-treated, can't hurt 
If you're going for strength consider having them cryo-treated, can't hurt
Last edited by GoodfellaFD3S; Feb 11, 2012 at 09:01 AM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 814
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From: Charlotte NC
^^^^ the corners from South Coast Rotary are made from the same soft material as the unbreakable seals he sells. I was told the corner seals hardly ever break. Well I proved them wrong. I broke every last one. Now I trust in the ALS seals now cause they held up to my extreme abuse. So I searched for some kind of stronger corner seal. I didn't like the design of the atkins corner seals cause its a straight cut in the middle and that would cause a stress area and be prone to cracking.
The SCR seals seemed nicer. Rounded center and a half cut in. Plus the material is what sold me. I talked to Kevin from SCR for over an hour, very helpful, very knowledgeable. Was telling me of all the street cars over there running his seals and using e85 and pushing 600-700hp daily.
Gotta order some apex seals from john and the motor will be back together next week. Rotorsports Racing rebuilt my tranny as well. So I'm gucci. Lmao.
The SCR seals seemed nicer. Rounded center and a half cut in. Plus the material is what sold me. I talked to Kevin from SCR for over an hour, very helpful, very knowledgeable. Was telling me of all the street cars over there running his seals and using e85 and pushing 600-700hp daily.
Gotta order some apex seals from john and the motor will be back together next week. Rotorsports Racing rebuilt my tranny as well. So I'm gucci. Lmao.
What are you going to do different with the engine this time, besides solid corner seals? Are you still going to get a stud kit, or changing fuel system and the tune? Am currently starting on a similar set up with the same ultimate goal of 600 to 700 whp. Can you tell me what are some of the things to watch out for.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 814
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From: Charlotte NC
What are you going to do different with the engine this time, besides solid corner seals? Are you still going to get a stud kit, or changing fuel system and the tune? Am currently starting on a similar set up with the same ultimate goal of 600 to 700 whp. Can you tell me what are some of the things to watch out for.
I do plan on upgrading to the e&j throttle body setup soon maybe.. also wanna do a 3 rotor before i die. lol.. but who knows
600 is feasable. 700 is a little more tricky. Contact and search for the guys that run, build, race and own 600-700hp cars and start asking questions. Someone will help you. Thats what i do. I know just enough to be dangerous. lol
No stud kit< fuel staying the same, and just a tune. Im not gonna be the first to re-invent the wheel so im not gonna try. I have a few people helping me along the way with advice and knowledge. My setup is more than capable of reaching my 600hp goal. Just need to tweak some things..
I do plan on upgrading to the e&j throttle body setup soon maybe.. also wanna do a 3 rotor before i die. lol.. but who knows
600 is feasable. 700 is a little more tricky. Contact and search for the guys that run, build, race and own 600-700hp cars and start asking questions. Someone will help you. Thats what i do. I know just enough to be dangerous. lol
I do plan on upgrading to the e&j throttle body setup soon maybe.. also wanna do a 3 rotor before i die. lol.. but who knows
600 is feasable. 700 is a little more tricky. Contact and search for the guys that run, build, race and own 600-700hp cars and start asking questions. Someone will help you. Thats what i do. I know just enough to be dangerous. lol
I can get you that throttle body
No stud kit< fuel staying the same, and just a tune. Im not gonna be the first to re-invent the wheel so im not gonna try. I have a few people helping me along the way with advice and knowledge. My setup is more than capable of reaching my 600hp goal. Just need to tweak some things..
I do plan on upgrading to the e&j throttle body setup soon maybe.. also wanna do a 3 rotor before i die. lol.. but who knows
600 is feasable. 700 is a little more tricky. Contact and search for the guys that run, build, race and own 600-700hp cars and start asking questions. Someone will help you. Thats what i do. I know just enough to be dangerous. lol
I do plan on upgrading to the e&j throttle body setup soon maybe.. also wanna do a 3 rotor before i die. lol.. but who knows
600 is feasable. 700 is a little more tricky. Contact and search for the guys that run, build, race and own 600-700hp cars and start asking questions. Someone will help you. Thats what i do. I know just enough to be dangerous. lol
Hey neal you ever thought maybe switching over to a haltech or a microtech? it seems like people seem to squeeze better numbers out of those two EMS's over a power FC..
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Charlotte NC
I will be switching ecu's one day.. and the goal is to upgrade with one that can run a 3 rotor. So maybe microtech or better yet tech3..
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 814
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From: Charlotte NC
Just a update. I bought new rotor housings and everything is at Rotorsports Racing being prepped for assembly. I also decided to upgrade my turbo. Elliot at Turblown is providing me with a GTX42R. So soon we will see how this turbo performs over my Borg unit. Hopefully the car will be back running in about 2-3weeks.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 814
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From: Charlotte NC
Wanted to upgrade to a new school setup. The borg warner is a awesome performer for the value. But i always wanted a ball bearing turbo and wanted a new design wheel ie. the billet gtx42r. Im hoping it out spools the borg and can produce better numbers in the higher psi range.. I plan to run 25 psi as a daily number and hope to get it up to 30 on race gas and see what she can do. Soon bro, soon..
A sound piece of advice would be to do it once and do it right. The Motec M84 isn't too expensive at $2700 and its a far superior ecu than either the tech3 or microtech...
A $500 MegaSquirt is better than either one of those options. MoTeC's get rather pricey once you start adding options that come standard on most of the other ECUs.
Joined: May 2005
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From: North Bay, Ontario
Islander, do you have any concern about the chatter marks left by the ALS seals? Or do you feel it was related to the internal carnage. If you are patient, you can get them in 3mm in the next month or so likely.
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Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Charlotte NC
I really don't honestly know. I bought brand new housings for this new build and guess we can get a better idea of wear later on. The motor is gonna be done this week so no go on the 3mm seals. Hopefully after 100k miles. Lol. I'm really hoping she can survive that long. Those were used housings and not sure how good they were from the start.
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Joined: Nov 2008
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From: Czech republic
94mm or 102mm exducer?I was really hoping that you would go with BW S400SX-67mm FMW. Compressor is substantially smaller than both versions of 42R, so peak flow is obviously slightly smaller, but still good for over 800 HP and also higher rotational speed of compressor for given mass flow is good for turbine efficiency and reducing backpressure. And its cheap.
Only problem is that its T4 flanged and IIRC your manifold is for T6 setup? Otherwise choose of 42R is understandable, bigger compressor will work better if it will find its home on 20B.