Razerx

I am seroiusly looking at this mod, is there any reason not to go the earl's route and buy the parts outlined by Banzai, it seems like a great setup for the price? What am i missing? 19 row vs 25?

I track the car 50% of the time, and it gets hot.

Tell me about the temp sensor, if i go to earls and the temp sensor does it replace the imput to my current ECU? BTW i am thinking of going w/ the Wolf 3d... thoughts?

D

DamonB

The fittings should be at the bottom of any kit. If they're not the cooler(s) and lines hold oil which can't be drained during oil changes. If the cooler is mounted in such a way that the fittings are easily damaged then I think it's a poor design.


Endurance race cars don't even require coolers as large. Were your oil temps too high with the stock coolers? Perhaps. Do you need to go so large to fix it? Absolutely not.

black93RX7

It all depends how much work you are comfortable doing on your own.

Making your own kit requires alot of measuring and fabrication for the mounting brackets and the lines. The price difference is usually negligable

My dual 34 row coolers, lines, fittings and t-stat cost approx. $1200usd, could have ordered the kit from Chuck but I preferd to do things myself to insure proper fitment, since Im using a sleek headlight kit a 99 spec front end and a 20B.

Mahjik makes a great point, however I dont see why any kit would place the fittings on the bottom of the cooler regardless if its designed for track use or not, seems too risky for me, just IMO.

But if its being used with stock headlights I guesss there may not be enough room, not sure.

black93RX7

Damonb Quote: The fittings should be at the bottom of any kit. If they're not the cooler(s) hold oil which can't be drained during oil changes. If the cooler is mounted in such a way that the fittings are easily damaged then I think it's a poor design.

Thats very true, didnt think of that


The reason I went so large was due to the 20B single turbo setup, they can run very hot and I wanted to take some of the strain off my cooling system, but not having too worry about excessively high oil temps

DamonB

Ever seen the oil cooler area on the 787B for instance?

black93RX7

No, but Im guessing its not as big as mine...lol

I see your point and wont argue otherwise, you have a wealth of racing experience and I appreciate your comments, keep them coming.

Might have to go back and see if I have room to mounts the coolers with the fittings on the bottom. Thanks again for the input

DamonB

I can't fathom why all these so oil cooler "kits" use 90 degree fittings that hang the lines down needlessly and dangerously far (assuming they thought to put the lines at the bottom in the first place).

Why aren't these "custom" kits everyone buys instead supplied with banjo fittings which would save a lot of ground clearance and package much more nicely in the car? Because none of these "kits" have any real engineering work or thinking in them. You merely get a bunch of non-specific universally miscellaneous parts which have been repackaged into one box that any monkey could put together by reading a standard industry catalog.

If somebody wanted to actually do it right they'd use banjo connections to save ground clearance. Even better yet use some forethought and supply a cooler with fittings that attach at the sides or rear of the side tanks rather than hanging straight from the bottom of them. This could be easily done by welding new bungs onto standard coolers already available. Why doesn't anyone do this? Because they're lemmings who don't understand anything other than "this cooler is bigger than this one". Nobody puts any real thought into it and fact is if it's shiney and expensive most insist it's "better" and will happily buy them all day.

Razerx

you make good points Damon, I am an engineer and many things for our cars strike me that way. Which is why i am following this thread and asking about dual coolers, since i have touring car, which i track and is making more power, and my current cooler is beaten up. I am not in the bigger is better camp, and if the R1 setup is the way then i will go that route as well. But I am looking at the effective spend of $$$ as most things follow the 80/20 rule, meaning getting 80% is pretty cost effective but the last 20% is the most costly. Since i track the car and yes it can be 100+ i want a good setup. today i short shift and run 5th down the straight-aways to cool the car.

So what is a good dual oil cooler setup? BTW do most of you use an aftermarket oil temp gauge or just get the reading via your ECU?

dubulup

ECU never sees oil temp...unless you have a MoTeC or similar

rynberg

You can do a search using my username. I have posted my track experiences with both the single stock cooler and the RE dual 25-row setup. I've run on Thill, Laguna, and Buttonwillow and posted my temp differences.

Razerx

Rynberg,

so do you like the RE setup? quality, install? i have chuck's V-mount BTW.

black93RX7

How is your rad held up? I saw that v-mount being installed and wasn't impressed with the way it was mounted.

With all of the work involved in some of the IC, oil coolers and intake kits I'v seen, your almost better off doings things custom.

John Magnuson

I track my car extensively with the R1 dual cooler setup with no problems. They are carefully ducted.

I run 11psi boost tops on twins. Maybe if you're running some 400hp monster you might need more.

Razerx

black, my V-mount is fine. To say it went in like butter would be an overstatement. But all in all things fit pretty well and have a 'shroud' to force air in the IC, the cold air. However i did keep my A/C condensor which likely inhibits a bit of the cooling. Overall i am very happy w/ it. I can take some pics if you want but i am getting new turbos so much of it is out right now.

John, good info. IF i have a touring car, i need all the lines and passenger cooler right?

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

That's my problem, I 'd like to run 16 psi/400 rwhp on the roadrace course. I have R1 coolers that I plan to get refurbed (a la damian) and just ordered the fiberglass ducts for my 99 bumper from RE. I also have the a/c removed, which gets more air directly to the rad. I guess I'll start at a lower boost and bump it up a psi at a time.......

Razerx

damn no good answers;
a) go w/ R1
b) go with RE 25 but $$$
c) go w/ banzia setup for $600

i guess if the banzai is better than the R1, that is tix, since it is better, only a couple hundred more, and new

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Razerx,

Here's my advice. Start with the R1 dual coolers and an oil temp gauge (cheapest option to start out with). Monitor your temps. If they are getting too hot, then upgrade. If not, be happy.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

But 'better' is not just about the cooling capacity. For a street car (my street car anyway) I decided to stick with the R1 coolers b/c they are 100% streetable and reliable. Some of the kits out there can and will leave you stranded on the side of the road due to catastrophic failure. Of course, some are well constructed and if properly installed will work fine. I didn't feel like dealing with it.

In order to optimize the R1 setup, I will get them refurbished (the cores basically look like new, 2-rotor posted the link a few pages back) and also run the proper ducting. For those running the stock 93-95 front bumper with the itty-bitty openings for the oil coolers, I recommend upgrading to one of the 99 spec variants with larger rad and oil cooler openings.

afterburn27

iTrader: (5)

Or you could go with a combination of options a and c. Keep the stock driver's side cooler and add a 25 row (or whatever) on the passenger side. So take that $600 shopping list and subtract an oil cooler, oil thermostat (stocker has one built in), and some fittings/line. As long as you can deal with fabbing custom mounts and ducts you will have one nice setup for el-cheapo.

Razerx

Ok, where to get a good r1 setup? Do i need new anything? Banjo fittings?

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Just look in the forsale section for a used set.

black93RX7

After reading DamienB's comments, going to try and mount the coolers with the fittings on the bottom and see what other fitting options are available besides earl's 90 degree or 180 degree bends.

Good thread with great info

BlueTII

I agree 100%, this is why we do not sell a "kit", we simply posted up our shopping list in our "how to" section. I could not bring myself to spend 2X the money on parts that are readily available from Summit, Jegs, etc. Considering I have an aftermarket front nose and was going to have to make custom bracketry regardless.

I did put my system together with the fittings on the bottom of the oil coolers for previously stated reasons. I did use the 90's and have no issues or concerns with them being damaged, if my car falls into a big enough hole to damage the oil fittings, I will have much bigger worries, considering my front end will most likely no longer be on the car, the suspension will be toast and the FMIC trashed.

I lined up the bottom of the oil coolers with the bottom of the Feed airducts. This gives a little over 6" of ground clearance from the bottom of the lowest fitting.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Even the R1 coolers aren't enough in some situations. I remember a summer track day a few years back with a bunch of local RX7 strack guy at Summit in August and everyone was seeing oil temps over 250 F w/ R1's. Everybody promptly went out and bought CWR duals. I did too, and they make a significant difference... even in water temps. Now i've upgraded to a '99 nose, and am in need of ducts to fit (fabbing them now).

The best cooler setup is a well-ducted one, but capacity is important as well. These cars can't GET enough cooling, so maximize what you can.

I can run all day at the track in most any condition nowand never see more than about 100C water temps. Now i've got to tackle air temps without loosing the water temp stability.

black93RX7

Moved the fittings to the bottom, there is about an inch between the belly pan and the bottom of the 180 degree fitting, going to test fit the 90 degree later.

Its tight, still not sure if the top of the cooler will clear the light pod, have to wait until the pods are back from painting to make sure, but if should.

Going to make the bkackets and box the coolers in with aluminum for ducting.

Also a pic of the thermostat Im using