anyone own an auto FD?
01-26-02, 03:13 AM
#1
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anyone own an auto FD?
I'm looking to but but my budget seems to limit me to a nice auto TT FD instead of a manual...anyone who owns one, how has it done? I am looking for a little reassurance, or warnings against, whatever your experience might be...
01-26-02, 04:01 AM
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search the forum for more info... here is one thread that might be close
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=12323
Matt
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=12323
Matt
01-26-02, 07:55 AM
#3
Constant threat
I have an automatic, and I love it! And this is coming from a former, dyed in the wool "only pussies drive automatics" believer. The deal is, for 90% of your driving, the automatic makes life much easier. And you still have a powerful sports car that looks just the same as its manual brothers, which, if you think about it, the LOOKS of the car are what most people see, and what you most likely find most attractive. Another good thing about automatics is that they are generally in better condition, and you can find a much nicer car for less money, and not have to worry too much that you have bought a ticking time bomb.
Yes, the performance is slightly compromised, no doubt about that. The auto tranny is computerized and often tries to decide what IT wants to do rather than what YOU want to do. However, Mazda cleverly added a feature called a "hold" button that does many things in different circumstances, the net result it you have a sort of "semi-automatic" when you desire a little more connection with your car. And it can be used as a very effective form of traction control in icy conditions, I drove my FD in a snowstorm that would have easily left my 5 speed FC motionless.
Each person will make his choice based on a lot of factors, and I will say this: Would I rather have a manual FD? Yes, all in all, I would. But by the same token I like my car VERY much, it is damned near showroom new looking, had low miles, and dealer service all its life (though that is of questionable benefit!
) My car is simply one of the very good ones, and the fact that I have not spent one dime on repairs tells you something. So was it worth buying it, even though it had the automatic?
HELL YES!
Don't buy anything other than a manual car if you plan on extensive mods, as there are no real good ECU upgrades that work entirely well with the automatic (most of them you will lose the 'hold' feature), or if you plan on any sort of racing on a track. If you don't plan on these things, then you should definitely consider an automatic, too.
Yes, the performance is slightly compromised, no doubt about that. The auto tranny is computerized and often tries to decide what IT wants to do rather than what YOU want to do. However, Mazda cleverly added a feature called a "hold" button that does many things in different circumstances, the net result it you have a sort of "semi-automatic" when you desire a little more connection with your car. And it can be used as a very effective form of traction control in icy conditions, I drove my FD in a snowstorm that would have easily left my 5 speed FC motionless.
Each person will make his choice based on a lot of factors, and I will say this: Would I rather have a manual FD? Yes, all in all, I would. But by the same token I like my car VERY much, it is damned near showroom new looking, had low miles, and dealer service all its life (though that is of questionable benefit!
) My car is simply one of the very good ones, and the fact that I have not spent one dime on repairs tells you something. So was it worth buying it, even though it had the automatic?HELL YES!
Don't buy anything other than a manual car if you plan on extensive mods, as there are no real good ECU upgrades that work entirely well with the automatic (most of them you will lose the 'hold' feature), or if you plan on any sort of racing on a track. If you don't plan on these things, then you should definitely consider an automatic, too.
01-26-02, 02:08 PM
#4
5yr member, joined 2001
I also own an automatic. I wish that I had a manual, though. But you know, beggars can't be choosers. My father got me this car and I wouldn't trade it for anything... less than $30K. I still believe that autos in a sports car is heresy. If money seems to be your issue, then just save up a little longer (unless you were thinking of maintenance). Remember, getting a car is way up there as far as important decisions go. Get the one you want. This seems to be known but never believed or said enough: "Your car is an extension of yourself."
01-26-02, 02:08 PM
#5
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DONT get an auto.
manual is waaay better.
Auto's run above 14 sec quarter mile, and 6sec 0-60
manual runs mid-high 13 sec quarter, and 5sec 0-60
plus manual is way more fun man!
If you want an auto, you might as well not get an fd,
you could get something with the same performance, but
better reliability(although it wont handle or look as cool! hehe).
Just keep looking, one key to buying an FD is you MUST BE PATIENT!
oh, remember to have a mechanic check it out, and run
a carfax. you can get burned BADLY if you dont.
Good luck!
manual is waaay better.
Auto's run above 14 sec quarter mile, and 6sec 0-60
manual runs mid-high 13 sec quarter, and 5sec 0-60
plus manual is way more fun man!
If you want an auto, you might as well not get an fd,
you could get something with the same performance, but
better reliability(although it wont handle or look as cool! hehe).
Just keep looking, one key to buying an FD is you MUST BE PATIENT!
oh, remember to have a mechanic check it out, and run
a carfax. you can get burned BADLY if you dont.
Good luck!
01-26-02, 02:15 PM
#6
I don't have either. I don't have an FD YET!!! But when summer comes I will begin my search for a 3rdgen. And I would never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever
buy an automatic, unless it was a SUPER SWEET deal and then I would do a swap.
buy an automatic, unless it was a SUPER SWEET deal and then I would do a swap.
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01-26-02, 05:47 PM
#8
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Originally posted by JONSKI
I also own an automatic. I wish that I had a manual, though. But you know, beggars can't be choosers.
I also own an automatic. I wish that I had a manual, though. But you know, beggars can't be choosers.
01-26-02, 08:35 PM
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I've owned and driven both and the automatic is faster. Or maybe all the automatics I've ever driven have been in better shape than all the 5spds I've driven, but I doubt it. They've all had good boost patterns and compression. It took me a little while to 'get to know' the auto tranny and hold button, but once I did I found it was faster. For one thing, you don't lose boost between shifts. This is a big plus. As far as waiting for the computer to decide what it wants to do, this can be avoided by using the hold button. Hard launches are easier (after a little practice) and with less wheel hop. I haven't quite perfected it yet, but I believe you can downshift into a turn with just as much control and precision as a manual. I've always preferred manuals up until now. My first car was a manual and that is mostly all I have driven until I bought my auto FD, so I definitely know how to shift. NOBODY can shift as fast as today's automatics. Torque converters are getting more and more efficient. So for those of you who only buy manuals, keep them in good shape. They will be collectors items soon when everyone starts buying the more technologically advanced automatics.
"grandpa, what's that third pedal for?"
"grandpa, what's that third pedal for?"
01-26-02, 10:41 PM
#10
Originally posted by joemomma
I've owned and driven both and the automatic is faster. Or maybe all the automatics I've ever driven have been in better shape than all the 5spds I've driven, but I doubt it. They've all had good boost patterns and compression. It took me a little while to 'get to know' the auto tranny and hold button, but once I did I found it was faster. For one thing, you don't lose boost between shifts. This is a big plus. As far as waiting for the computer to decide what it wants to do, this can be avoided by using the hold button. Hard launches are easier (after a little practice) and with less wheel hop. I haven't quite perfected it yet, but I believe you can downshift into a turn with just as much control and precision as a manual. I've always preferred manuals up until now. My first car was a manual and that is mostly all I have driven until I bought my auto FD, so I definitely know how to shift. NOBODY can shift as fast as today's automatics. Torque converters are getting more and more efficient. So for those of you who only buy manuals, keep them in good shape. They will be collectors items soon when everyone starts buying the more technologically advanced automatics.
"grandpa, what's that third pedal for?"
I've owned and driven both and the automatic is faster. Or maybe all the automatics I've ever driven have been in better shape than all the 5spds I've driven, but I doubt it. They've all had good boost patterns and compression. It took me a little while to 'get to know' the auto tranny and hold button, but once I did I found it was faster. For one thing, you don't lose boost between shifts. This is a big plus. As far as waiting for the computer to decide what it wants to do, this can be avoided by using the hold button. Hard launches are easier (after a little practice) and with less wheel hop. I haven't quite perfected it yet, but I believe you can downshift into a turn with just as much control and precision as a manual. I've always preferred manuals up until now. My first car was a manual and that is mostly all I have driven until I bought my auto FD, so I definitely know how to shift. NOBODY can shift as fast as today's automatics. Torque converters are getting more and more efficient. So for those of you who only buy manuals, keep them in good shape. They will be collectors items soon when everyone starts buying the more technologically advanced automatics.
"grandpa, what's that third pedal for?"
Still though, I'm swapping my auto out for a manual, as that what i want out of my car has changed. Orginally, I just wanted a nice 2nd car to drive on teh weekends and to go out in - now I want (eventually) a highly modified car that I can take to the track, and show. I've only a couple parts left to find for the conversion, and hopefully should have it in by end of Feb.
There is at least two guys on this Forum that road races their autos on circuits like mid-Ohio, so you can definitely race them. And as for the favorite put-down of those that do not like the auto - that you lose control - not true. I drive my auto in manual mode 90% of the time using the Hold button.
I shift 1st->2nd->3rd->4th(release Hold button), and downshift, just like a manual. It engine brakes like a manual, and stays in whatever gear I want like a manual. The only time the auto ecu intervenes while using the Hold button is when you go lower then 10-15mph in 3rd. It will downshift into 2nd so that you do not bog the engine.
So, it depends on what you want. Either way, its an FD, and its fast.
01-27-02, 12:43 PM
#11
Well, I have to agree with the fact that the auto is faster then the stick on a more consistant basis. I currently own a manual and automatic FD. I mean, I know that the manual is faster if you do it perfect....but there is still room for human error.......on the auto. with the hold button, there is no human error, the computer does it all(and as far as I can tell, it doesn't make mistakes). Plus you can put a shift kit and stall converter if your that concerned about it. I know the auto transmission I had in my 300zx was so much faster then my stick 300zx. Then I had it built...talk about ***** to the wall. Anyways....if your wanting to do a auto to manual conversion I hope your are doing this to a race car and not a street car......if this is a daily driver, your basically going to need a donar car(at least thats what all the mechanics have told me). Best of luck to all in there search for there cars.
Memphis
Memphis
01-27-02, 12:52 PM
#12
Ex fd *****
Originally posted by dclin
Exactly ...
Still though, I'm swapping my auto out for a manual, as that what i want out of my car has changed. Orginally, I just wanted a nice 2nd car to drive on teh weekends and to go out in - now I want (eventually) a highly modified car that I can take to the track, and show.....
There is at least two guys on this Forum that road races their autos on circuits like mid-Ohio, so you can definitely race them. And as for the favorite put-down of those that do not like the auto - that you lose control - not true. I drive my auto in manual mode 90% of the time using the Hold button.
I shift 1st->2nd->3rd->4th(release Hold button), and downshift, just like a manual. It engine brakes like a manual, and stays in whatever gear I want like a manual. The only time the auto ecu intervenes while using the Hold button is when you go lower then 10-15mph in 3rd. It will downshift into 2nd so that you do not bog the engine.
So, it depends on what you want. Either way, its an FD, and its fast.
Exactly ...
Still though, I'm swapping my auto out for a manual, as that what i want out of my car has changed. Orginally, I just wanted a nice 2nd car to drive on teh weekends and to go out in - now I want (eventually) a highly modified car that I can take to the track, and show.....
There is at least two guys on this Forum that road races their autos on circuits like mid-Ohio, so you can definitely race them. And as for the favorite put-down of those that do not like the auto - that you lose control - not true. I drive my auto in manual mode 90% of the time using the Hold button.
I shift 1st->2nd->3rd->4th(release Hold button), and downshift, just like a manual. It engine brakes like a manual, and stays in whatever gear I want like a manual. The only time the auto ecu intervenes while using the Hold button is when you go lower then 10-15mph in 3rd. It will downshift into 2nd so that you do not bog the engine.
So, it depends on what you want. Either way, its an FD, and its fast.
dcln:
I own a well modded FD with an AUTO I love it bewcause 80% of my time in it is spent commuting to/from work in freeway trafic - I DO road race on weekends at WILLOW SPRINGS (and do my share of canyon running
) and use the hold buton to control shifts much like you do - My FD may not be as QUICK as some other FDs, but certianly is fast and faster thn 95% of all the other cars on the street even here in southern california the capital of fast cars. I bought my fd bassed on PRICE (almost$4k less and better condition than all the 5spds I have looked at) and color combo (I absolutly HAD to have RED Leather) thinking I would convert to 5 speed but now I don't think I ever will.bajaman:
I do the same when its raining out here in CA, D+Hold = 2nd & 3rd only then @ 45-50mph release hold for OD 4th.
Man of Steel:
Even if you want a highly Modified car, AEM is bringing out a new EMS/CPU that will provide full control of the Auto Trans in addition to all the engine management features and also can provide TRACTION control for the FD.
Last edited by maxpesce; 01-27-02 at 01:02 PM.
01-28-02, 02:29 AM
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I guess some of the posters here view their FD as more of a musclecar, in stating that the car is often faster because you can't shift perfect, etc. Personally, I view my FD as a sports car. This means maximum driver involvement. To me, this completely rules out an automatic (even with the HOLD feature).
Yes, when I got stuck the other day in stop-and-go traffic for 30 minutes, I wished I had an automatic. But 99% of the time, I could never give up the feeling of control and involvement in driving the car that a manual transmission gives me.
BTW dclin, the 0-60 and other tests performed by the mags are never tested that way. All of the major car mags always perform shifts with the clutch disengaged and the throttle lifted. Besides, isn't brake-torquing an automatic to get a faster launch similar to a trick like changing gears without disengaging the clutch? ALL the mags try this technique with autos.
Yes, when I got stuck the other day in stop-and-go traffic for 30 minutes, I wished I had an automatic. But 99% of the time, I could never give up the feeling of control and involvement in driving the car that a manual transmission gives me.
BTW dclin, the 0-60 and other tests performed by the mags are never tested that way. All of the major car mags always perform shifts with the clutch disengaged and the throttle lifted. Besides, isn't brake-torquing an automatic to get a faster launch similar to a trick like changing gears without disengaging the clutch? ALL the mags try this technique with autos.
01-28-02, 12:37 PM
#15
Originally posted by rynberg
I guess some of the posters here view their FD as more of a musclecar, in stating that the car is often faster because you can't shift perfect, etc. Personally, I view my FD as a sports car. This means maximum driver involvement. To me, this completely rules out an automatic (even with the HOLD feature).
Yes, when I got stuck the other day in stop-and-go traffic for 30 minutes, I wished I had an automatic. But 99% of the time, I could never give up the feeling of control and involvement in driving the car that a manual transmission gives me.
BTW dclin, the 0-60 and other tests performed by the mags are never tested that way. All of the major car mags always perform shifts with the clutch disengaged and the throttle lifted. Besides, isn't brake-torquing an automatic to get a faster launch similar to a trick like changing gears without disengaging the clutch? ALL the mags try this technique with autos.
I guess some of the posters here view their FD as more of a musclecar, in stating that the car is often faster because you can't shift perfect, etc. Personally, I view my FD as a sports car. This means maximum driver involvement. To me, this completely rules out an automatic (even with the HOLD feature).
Yes, when I got stuck the other day in stop-and-go traffic for 30 minutes, I wished I had an automatic. But 99% of the time, I could never give up the feeling of control and involvement in driving the car that a manual transmission gives me.
BTW dclin, the 0-60 and other tests performed by the mags are never tested that way. All of the major car mags always perform shifts with the clutch disengaged and the throttle lifted. Besides, isn't brake-torquing an automatic to get a faster launch similar to a trick like changing gears without disengaging the clutch? ALL the mags try this technique with autos.
You've pointed out one the very few benefits of having a manual - more driver involvement. I personnally don't believe that having to depress a extra pedal most of the time makes a sports car - a sports car. Having to work a clutch is more fun for some people, and for me (along with mod reasons) that is why I am doing an auto/manual conversion. Not because I think it makes my car more of a 'sports car'.
And as for clutchless shifting to achieve the results, neither can you say that all test drivers do not employ clutchless shifting all the all the time, and neither can I say they do all the time. But its not their car, and they are tasked with wringing the absolute fastest time out of the car - and the fastest way (for a professional driver) is to clutchless shift.
Torque braking is harder on a torque converter, but no where near as abusive as clutchless shifting is on the gears. What happens with torque braking is that heat builds up within the torque converter and if a person sits there and brake torque for 3 minutes straight, I gaurentee a person would be replacing a converter every pass due to overheating the transmission. If you brake torque up to your stall speed and take off, minimal heat is built up and torque convertor life shortens minimally. With clutchless shifting, a person is jamming into each gear - metal on metal contact under high operating ranges of the transmission.
If magazines want to employ 'trickery' to extract the fastest time out of an auto, why would they not want to employ 'trickery' to get the fastest time out of a manual?
I'm not trying to pick on you specifically, but it annoys the hell out of me when people put down auto equipped sportscars - as sportscars - when there is no real universally applicable arguement to do so.
01-28-02, 01:18 PM
#16
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I have an Auto and the HOLD feature is nice, but nothing beats downshifting into 2nd on the fly while going into a corner, the hold feature will not downshift tell the proper RPM is registered, not that its a bad thing, just takes some getting used to. The car is still damn fast all stock. Do I want a manual later on? Yes, you can't have total control of you car without one, but my choice was slim when it came time to buy. I don't regret it, I love my car.
I have driven my friends manual and there is a difference both good and bad, I cant slam 2nd like I can in my auto (practically breaking my neck from 1st to 2nd-very fast gear change), but on the manual man I couldn't believe how sweet 3rd gear was.
I still very much so regard my car as a Sports Car, after all it is an FD
I have driven my friends manual and there is a difference both good and bad, I cant slam 2nd like I can in my auto (practically breaking my neck from 1st to 2nd-very fast gear change), but on the manual man I couldn't believe how sweet 3rd gear was.
I still very much so regard my car as a Sports Car, after all it is an FD
01-28-02, 06:41 PM
#17
"I used to have one"
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i have an auto, and i agree it is hella fast on shifting, but it is dog slow off the line
01-28-02, 08:23 PM
#18
Ex fd *****
Originally posted by Sloraxe
I have an Auto and the HOLD feature is nice, but nothing beats downshifting into 2nd on the fly while going into a corner, the hold feature will not downshift tell the proper RPM is registered, ....
I have an Auto and the HOLD feature is nice, but nothing beats downshifting into 2nd on the fly while going into a corner, the hold feature will not downshift tell the proper RPM is registered, ....
If I just hit HOLD with the lever already in "S" then it takes its own sweet time on the downshift.
Last edited by maxpesce; 01-28-02 at 08:27 PM.
01-29-02, 04:58 AM
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Originally posted by bajaman
Don't buy anything other than a manual car if you plan on extensive mods, as there are no real good ECU upgrades that work entirely well with the automatic (most of them you will lose the 'hold' feature), or if you plan on any sort of racing on a track. If you don't plan on these things, then you should definitely consider an automatic, too.
Don't buy anything other than a manual car if you plan on extensive mods, as there are no real good ECU upgrades that work entirely well with the automatic (most of them you will lose the 'hold' feature), or if you plan on any sort of racing on a track. If you don't plan on these things, then you should definitely consider an automatic, too.
While there are no ECU's that you can just pop in to replace the stock one, you can setup any standalone system and keep the hold function by leaving the stock ECU in to communicate with the tranny.
01-29-02, 06:34 AM
#20
Constant threat
Hey Viper!
I didn't know this! Have you had this long? Have I just been sleeping in all the Forum discussions about this? I would much appreciate learning all I can about this, please tell me what you have had to do and how you did it, if you don't mind.
Sorry for my ignorance, I guess I was going along with the "herd" mentality...........
I didn't know this! Have you had this long? Have I just been sleeping in all the Forum discussions about this? I would much appreciate learning all I can about this, please tell me what you have had to do and how you did it, if you don't mind.
Sorry for my ignorance, I guess I was going along with the "herd" mentality...........
01-30-02, 07:22 PM
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I've had the Haltech up and going since last August if I remember right. Here's some cut and pastes from some PMs I wrote about it. I think there are some threads on here where I described it also but I don't see 'em right now:
I think if one were going parallel or single turbo, the stock ECU would not need an ignition input (not positive though).
The main thing with my Haltech install is that the car is no different to use now than it was before the install - no premixing, no loss of HOLD, etc. Just holler if there is anything specific I can answer.
The key points on the install were that we ran the Haltech harness in parallel with the stock - at points where we had to use the same locations, we tapped off of the stock harness (like the injectors, and some sensors, etc.).
We ran an additional water temp sensor as I recall, 3bar MAP sensor, and we had to get two MSD ignition modules as the stock ECU and the Haltech needed their own units. With the stock ignition hooked to the Haltech and the ECU not getting any input, boost was all messed up since the ECU thought the engine was off. With both computers tied into the stock ignition, the signal was too weak for either to work right. So after the extra 200 bucks for the ignition crap, everything was perfect.
We mounted the Haltech in the passenger footwell, below the glovebox up near the firewall. Keeping the hold button and not having to premix were the driving reasons for going this route, but one nice side effect was that the check engine light still works.
Only bug I need to work out, is for some reason my A/C compressor is on at all times (regardless of A/C switch position/fans being on/off) - I had to pull the fuse to shut it down. Not sure if its just a weird new bug on my car or related to the install.
We ran an additional water temp sensor as I recall, 3bar MAP sensor, and we had to get two MSD ignition modules as the stock ECU and the Haltech needed their own units. With the stock ignition hooked to the Haltech and the ECU not getting any input, boost was all messed up since the ECU thought the engine was off. With both computers tied into the stock ignition, the signal was too weak for either to work right. So after the extra 200 bucks for the ignition crap, everything was perfect.
We mounted the Haltech in the passenger footwell, below the glovebox up near the firewall. Keeping the hold button and not having to premix were the driving reasons for going this route, but one nice side effect was that the check engine light still works.
Only bug I need to work out, is for some reason my A/C compressor is on at all times (regardless of A/C switch position/fans being on/off) - I had to pull the fuse to shut it down. Not sure if its just a weird new bug on my car or related to the install.
Actually on the output side of the ignition, the Haltech has full control. The stock ECU needs an ignition input just for the sequential boost control. The stock ECU has very few controlling outputs now - we were worried that it might freak out when it noticed that it was being ignored by the engine, but it apparently doesn't care.
The main thing with my Haltech install is that the car is no different to use now than it was before the install - no premixing, no loss of HOLD, etc. Just holler if there is anything specific I can answer.
02-27-02, 10:00 PM
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I had some concerns about how fast the auto would be when I got my car, but the hold button made the difference. I shift just like manuals and beat most others w/ little effort. Most of my time is spent just cruising, and an auto is nice and convenient for that purpose.
Does anyone know if the Apexi Power FC fuel management ecu (plug-n-play) will cause one to lose access to the 'hold' function?
Does anyone know if the Apexi Power FC fuel management ecu (plug-n-play) will cause one to lose access to the 'hold' function?
02-28-02, 10:00 AM
#24
Ex fd *****
Originally posted by MazdaRX7_FD3S
Just wondering but is changin a auto to a standard worth the money and howmuch would it be?
Just wondering but is changin a auto to a standard worth the money and howmuch would it be?
http://beyondtheredline.fd3s.net/
Aaron did the swap on one of his project car
I don't think its worth it on it own - an Auto FD will be only 1500-2000 less than a Manual and the conversion WILL end up costing way more than that - you also have to change the ECU, Tach, Speedo, Bellhousing, & Driveshaft in addition to changing out the brake pedal and adding the clutch, clutch pedal and hydraulics. If you are doing a bunch of mods & an engine rebuild at the same time then it may be worth it.
