Kento

Again (*sigh*)...this is the same BS that continually gets spouted by people who have no clue on what goes into fully legalizing a non-NHTSA/DOT/EPA-approved car for road use in the continental U.S. The year model of the vehicle has absolutely nothing to do with the legalization process.
"...mojo on the customs ends of things..."? Give me a break...
As far as driving across the U.S/Canada border with a RHD FD, sure, it probably won't be a problem. But through any other importing channel, U.S. Customs are privy to individuals trying to bring a non-U.S.-legal vehicle to drive on U.S. roads. If you do not provide substantial (and sufficient in their eyes) proof of your actual intent with the vehicle, it gets seized on the spot; and if you don't provide that proof within a specified period of time, it either gets sent back to where it came (at your expense) or it gets crushed.


More BS. As stated above by moconnor, the states have no say when it comes to importing and legalizing a car for U.S. road use.

Since I guess this thread has been linked for those who think it's fairly feasible to import a RHD FD into the States, I'll go over this once again:
The only reason that Nissan Skyline GTRs are comparatively easier to legalize (and I do mean "comparative"; you'll still have to pay stiff tariff fees and other hidden costs in order to legalize one-- and by the time you're done, you'd have been much better off waiting for the new generation GTR to arrive in your local dealership) is because a former grey market importer went through the considerable hassle of providing and paying for NHTSA crash/EPA emissions testing for the Skyline already.

RHD FDs, on the other hand, have no such testing data in the NHTSA databanks, so you'll need to federalize it yourself. Which means footing the bill for providing and crash testing two FDs, and also paying for EPA testing. By the time you're done, you can count on a good near-six-figure expense for making your precious RHD FD legal.

If you think it's worth it to slap a U.S. license plate on an FD you bought in Canada, or attempt to switch VIN numbers, or some other hair-brained scheme, be my guest. Just be prepared to pay the piper when you get pulled over for some minor moving violation, or when you try to sell the car.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Not to mention if some idiot pulls out in front of you and causes an accident where you are found at fault that you will have zero liability protection. Even if you manage to get a policy, when the adjuster has a closer look at the car they'll drop you like a stock precat. A lawsuit like that could last a lifetime.

Even if such an accident is not your fault ("oh, I'm a really safe driver") it's safe to say the other insurance company won't be paying a dime when they find out it's not a legally registered car. It's their money, and they WILL notice.

Dave

Smokey The Talon

iTrader: (33)

I'm absolutely amazed at how many times I've read these threads in the years I've trolled this board. Every time, the poster completely blows off the answers that they don't want to hear.

crcleofdst

I can certainly understand the desire to import something that was never brought here, but why would someone bother to import something that is already legal and available? I mean, other than a handful of parts, and the steering wheel being on the wrong side, there is no real difference. It would be so much cheaper/easier/safer to just buy the damn JDM parts and put them on a stock USDM FD. (which I am sure many here have done) Am I missing something here? The whole idea makes no sense to me...


I would love to import a skyline someday, but I won't break the law, or spend 100k to do it.......

paradoxbox

kento you totally missed the point and are spouting off a lot of crap that you don't actually know about - you may know the regulations within the US but you don't seem to understand the regulations in Canada. Nor do you seem to understand how Canadian regulations make it very easy for people to import grey market cars into certain states.

Canada has laws about the years of vehicles which can be imported and registered. Newer model vehicles must be exported within a specific timeframe or risk being crushed by customs Canada.

Grey market vehicle importers modify and sell newer model vehicles to owners in certain northern states due to the ease of getting them across the border. Georgia is another state where grey market vehicles are easy to find.

You seem to confuse "totally legal & inspected vehicles" with "grey market vehicles". With grey market vehicles they are registered and on the road, not necessarily federally compliant but they do comply with state laws and are generally trouble free.

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

'Not necessarily federally compliant' means, of course, illegal - so I am not sure what your point is.

You have provides no actual legal information in your response - just some non specific assertions about so-called 'gray market vehicles'. I have never seen this term applied to vehicles imported into the US. The UK has such a concept and applies to vehicles that were imported into the UK that were not originally sold there, but these cars are not illegal because the UK does not have quite so strict importation laws. In the US a car is either illegal or legal - there is no grey area.

Please point to the specific state regulations that govern these so-called 'grey market vehicles' and that describes how they can be legally imported and registered in those states. And what would be really interesting is a detailed description of how the importation laws of those state actually trump federal laws.

Kento

I never said nor implied that I knew anything about import regulations in Canada. Nor do I care.
Just an FYI: In order to be "registered" with any U.S. state, the VIN numbers need to be in the proper sequence for a U.S DOT-approved vehicle. Any foreign vehicle will have a different sequence and amount of digits in the VIN that won't register with any state DMV, and will immediately raise red flags. So no, they cannot be "registered".

Apparently your Canadian definition of "grey market" vehicles means "illegal and subject to seizure/impound/crush/federal charges" vehicles here in the U.S.
Here in the U.S., a true "grey market" importer sells vehicles that are actually fully registered and legal in all respects. Which is why there are so few around now, versus their heyday back in the '90s; it's very difficult to accomplish now that U.S. Customs, NHTSA, DOT, and the EPA have gotten wise to the game.
That's an awful long way from "certain northern states"...
I've been to numerous parts of Georgia many times, and have never seen a RHD vehicle (other than the usual federal/state maintenance/service vehicles). "Easy to find"? Riiiiiiiiight....
That is, until you get pulled over for some minor moving traffic violation, or get in an accident...

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

I don't think anyone is confused. Yes, there are vehicles brought in and fraudulently registered in certain states. No one has denied that. Importation is a federal issue and states are not responsible to enforce it, so it's often not very hard to get an illegal car registered with a state. But that doesn't make it any less illegal. While you might go a while without getting caught with a non-federal vehicle, there are situations where it will happen and when it does you lose the car and probably worse. Grey market is just another word in this case for illegal.

Just because you have papers doesn't mean that you got them legally. In fact, it's an additional crime, called fraud.

Dave

Kento

Just an addendum to my previous post: Those situations where someone has actually "registered" a foreign vehicle with a state DMV were most likely through certain loopholes in that state's registration laws. In other words, they were probably registered as a kit car, or "special road use" vehicle, or other such label.

The problem with sticking your neck through a loophole is that the odds of you stumbling somewhere along your travels with the car are much better than 50/50. And if you happen to roll snake eyes, the insurance companies and Feds will ensure that noose will tighten pretty damn quick...

adam c

iTrader: (2)

I don't think any of that is correct Dave. If an insurance company decides to insure your car, they are on the hook. Most insurance companies choose not to insure grey market cars. However, there are companies that will insure them, and some will even insure them for comp & collision. When you insure a car, the company checks the vin #. If it has a grey market vin, and they choose to insure it anyway, its covered. If you change the vin to a USDM number, then you might have a big problem with a claim.

As far as being hit by another driver, I don't believe the other company will be able to deny your claim. You own the car. It is your property. I believe that it would make no difference where it came from, or how it was registered. As an example, lets say that pull your "old car" out of the garage for a short drive around the block. Your car hasn't been registered in 5 years because you store it, and don't drive it. Another guy hits you while on this drive. You are driving an unregistered car, but he is still responsible.

My (more than) two cents

Kento

I believe what Dave meant is that if the insurance company discovers that you have defrauded them in any way, they will not pay a claim. For instance, if you register the car as a kit car in some back-alley state DMV, there are still mileage limitations. If they discover that you are past the mileage limitation, then they will look at it like you claiming the theft of something in your broken-into car that wasn't listed in your insurance policy.
I disagree. A better analogy would be if you were driving, say, a dune buggy that was never registered as a street-legal vehicle; in other words, you are driving a vehicle that isn't legal in any way for public road use. I'd be inclined to think that the other driver's insurance company would be very resistant to paying out any monetary claim on a vehicle they feel is not legal to be on the road at any time, regardless of whether it is your property or not. Now if the vehicle was parked when the other driver hit it, then that would be another story, because that is property damage in its own right, like someone crashing into your house.

adam c

iTrader: (2)

Fraud certainly changes the situation. I didn't see that as what Dave was addressing.

I understand what you are saying Kento, but you are completely wrong. Being on the street illegally does not entitle another driver to hit you, whether your vehicle is parked or not. If the other driver is at fault, his insurance can be forced to pay ....... even if they try to resist. I have worked at, managed, and owned an Insurance agency for 25 years. At this agency, we dealt almost exclusively with car insurance. This is my area of expertise, and I really do know what I am talking about

Kento

He was commenting on my statement about hair-brained schemes in attempting to drive (or even register) a non-U.S. vehicle on public roads.
Yikes. Well, I guess it's good to know that even if I were to be driving on a suspended license in an unregistered vehicle that if I was involved in an accident that was somehow deemed to be another person's fault, that I wouldn't be held responsible for damages, and have all my medical bills paid for...

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Thank you, yes I was referring to lying about the usage or history of the car when getting insurance.

Considering how strict my insurance providers are about insuring a clean FD, I can't imagine how you could get legally insured with a right hand drive car that doesn't have a US VIN. I know that insurance varies greatly from one state to the next, but still.

Dave

adam c

iTrader: (2)

Dave,

There are Grey market cars in the US legally, with non US vin's. A few insurance companies choose to insure them, but not for comp & collision. Eliminating the comp & collision coverages really doesn't put them at any more risk than any other car on the road, since they won't have to pay to repair the car. You can bet that a company that will provide comp & collision (if you can find one), is going to charge a very high rate for that coverage.

adam c

iTrader: (2)

If you are driving on a suspended license, in an unregistered vehicle, you better not be at fault, because you sure as hell can't buy any insurance

Kento

Adam, I think Dave's point is this: Yes, there are grey market cars here legally with non-US VIN numbers, but they are few and far between, and the cost involved with making them legal is high enough that you can be sure most truly legal owners are wealthy enough that they don't have to worry too much about obtaining insurance. However, wouldn't you as an auto insurance salesman wonder about a car that some Joe Average was trying to insure with foreign VIN numbers? Wouldn't you ask more questions and do a little more checking than usual about its actual legality before accepting an insurance policy on it? Not that it wouldn't be possible to get insurance, but even then, not being able to get comp and collision is a pretty big gap in coverage.

Obviously, but my point is that I'm finding it incredible that an insurance company would just bend over and take it from a driver with a suspended license in an unregistered vehicle. But hey, I guess it is what it is.

adam c

iTrader: (2)

If I know that the car is a Grey market car, why would I care how he got it here? If it's here, and it's registered, as far as I am concerned, its legal. If it was somehow done illegally, that's not really my problem. If I have an insurance company that is willing to accept the car, knowing that it is a grey market car, that's good enough for me. Its not my job to investigate how it was done, and I really have no right to ask.

Most of the grey market cars that I have insured over the years were older cars that were not of great value. Normally the cars had been here for a while. The owners were not wealthy. Nearly all of them were just looking for minimum policies.

rotarymandan

iTrader: (15)

I am from the Bay Area, so not too far from you. There really are a lot of RX-7s for sale around here. I would just look for a car locally. You can find a car and look at it before you buy it, which is the best way to do it.

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

I know this is Off-topic, but couldn't help myself..... Unfortunately this^ happens pretty frequently....as Adam may already know. Few cars from the hood are ever properly registered, and few have licensed drivers anymore. What are you going to do if they hit you, sue? We jail em' locally but they're out in an hour on signature bond from the judge, before the people they hit are even released from the ER.

Kento

One of the reasons why I don't mind paying for uninsured motorist clause in my policy here in SoCal. There are way too many of that ilk driving around here.