Anyone else thinking about getting a new Groundzero LIM??
11-16-04, 01:55 PM
#51
Originally Posted by Sonny
As Max said, Rob from Pineapple touched on the flow mismatch during the tech session at Seven Stock. Apparently, Pineapple motors are built around this and if you disassemble one, you'll see that the porting for the rear rotor is different.
Sonny
Sonny
Jason
11-16-04, 05:03 PM
#53
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
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Why would he need xray glasses and a decoder ring if he had the engine torn apart where he could inspect the entire port inside and out?
Anyway, I think there is a lot of theory on this. The best way to find out is to run a wb and egt in both ports to check for the difference and use the injector size to compensate which is what I was planning on doing one day when I finished my car. They should test both ports at the same time when collecting data on thier new lim. If it really does equal them out with no other changes then I'd buy it.
Anyway, I think there is a lot of theory on this. The best way to find out is to run a wb and egt in both ports to check for the difference and use the injector size to compensate which is what I was planning on doing one day when I finished my car. They should test both ports at the same time when collecting data on thier new lim. If it really does equal them out with no other changes then I'd buy it.
11-16-04, 05:45 PM
#54
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Sorry I didnt know this thread was going, weve been busy testing products. Ill try to answer as many questions as possible. We designed the manifold for equalizing the
runners to eliminate high egts in rear rotor. We made the runners 20% larger so people
could custom port match for there built motors. We moved the runners 1/2 nch forward to straighten out the runners so the oil fill has to be modified to clear throttle shaft. Ther are
4 injector bosses for 2 or 4 injectors. The factory rail fits on the manifold, we plug the other two. We are going to be running 4 1600s and 2 850s for our apps. The manifold is made for
single turbo apps with no egr etc. I am running this manifold on my car and the egts are all
the same, even into boost . We are going to test a GT42r with stock and new manifold at
different boost levels and see what the results are. The main reason for this manifold is to
hopefully eliminate the lean condition in the rear rotor. I have gone thru many motors all
rear rotors and just got tired of it. We use the PFC and it can only equalize the injector balance so much, but not enough. Ill try to reply sooner to answer all questions regarding the manifold.
ralph
runners to eliminate high egts in rear rotor. We made the runners 20% larger so people
could custom port match for there built motors. We moved the runners 1/2 nch forward to straighten out the runners so the oil fill has to be modified to clear throttle shaft. Ther are
4 injector bosses for 2 or 4 injectors. The factory rail fits on the manifold, we plug the other two. We are going to be running 4 1600s and 2 850s for our apps. The manifold is made for
single turbo apps with no egr etc. I am running this manifold on my car and the egts are all
the same, even into boost . We are going to test a GT42r with stock and new manifold at
different boost levels and see what the results are. The main reason for this manifold is to
hopefully eliminate the lean condition in the rear rotor. I have gone thru many motors all
rear rotors and just got tired of it. We use the PFC and it can only equalize the injector balance so much, but not enough. Ill try to reply sooner to answer all questions regarding the manifold.
ralph
11-16-04, 05:47 PM
#55
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^^^ That's exactly what Rob mentioned to do. Larger secondary in the front rotor, smaller primary in the rear rotor...or vice-versa. Can't remember which.
At any rate, the best thing to do IMO is to just make them all flow the same. Having to run different sizes and trick the PFC is a hack.
I'm surprised that Mazda did this. Most of the trouble with this car seems to be from marketing people making cost-conscious choices, but this looks like a pretty straightforward engineering problem.
Sonny
At any rate, the best thing to do IMO is to just make them all flow the same. Having to run different sizes and trick the PFC is a hack.
I'm surprised that Mazda did this. Most of the trouble with this car seems to be from marketing people making cost-conscious choices, but this looks like a pretty straightforward engineering problem.
Sonny
11-16-04, 05:52 PM
#56
Originally Posted by maxcooper
The issue (as I understand it) is that the runners for the front and rear rotors are not balanced. The secondary runner for the rear rotor is more restrictive than the secondary runner for the front rotor. It is hard to account for this in tuning, and it probably limits somewhat your power production potential.
I know that a lot of people blow their rear rotors, but both times I have cracked apex seals on my engine, it was the front rotor. More air, same fuel = leaner than the rear. I wonder if the LIM imbalance is part of the reason I kill front rotors.
-Max
I know that a lot of people blow their rear rotors, but both times I have cracked apex seals on my engine, it was the front rotor. More air, same fuel = leaner than the rear. I wonder if the LIM imbalance is part of the reason I kill front rotors.
-Max
11-16-04, 06:47 PM
#58
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We tried to test the manifold on a TO4S 3rd gen but after running with the old and swapping the new , we found the turbo blades were all bent, so we stopped. We then tried tamers GT42r but we hit 536@12.5 psi @9000rpm and burned the ACT 6 puck ( New) up.
Now for Aris disk, will be next, hopefully later this week. Ralph
Now for Aris disk, will be next, hopefully later this week. Ralph
11-16-04, 07:17 PM
#60
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I am going to test out a injector driver box that takes the PFc saturated signal and turnes it into peak hold 4amp switch and 1 amp hold. Its four channel four channel and will drive
the 4 secondaries. Right now I have been running 70psi rail pressure with 850X1600x2 for high boost to get enough fuel, but the injectors lock up at 2.2bar of boost. Ill let you know how the new setup works. The only other way to run 4X1600s is to run in series off the PFC
but they are really slow switching with 1amp switch and 1amp hold. Ralph
the 4 secondaries. Right now I have been running 70psi rail pressure with 850X1600x2 for high boost to get enough fuel, but the injectors lock up at 2.2bar of boost. Ill let you know how the new setup works. The only other way to run 4X1600s is to run in series off the PFC
but they are really slow switching with 1amp switch and 1amp hold. Ralph
11-16-04, 09:08 PM
#61
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Ralph nice to see you posting. This is Joe, from massachusetts, we spoke earlier, remember I want to be on the list and notified when they are ready
11-16-04, 09:10 PM
#62
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Id like to add how helpful ralph is over the phone, friendly, to the point and enthusiastic! Nice to talk to a shop guy that likes to help for a change
Last edited by teamafx; 11-16-04 at 09:12 PM.
11-16-04, 09:32 PM
#63
rotary sensei
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Originally Posted by Xcessive
We tried to test the manifold on a TO4S 3rd gen but after running with the old and swapping the new , we found the turbo blades were all bent, so we stopped. We then tried tamers GT42r but we hit 536@12.5 psi @9000rpm and burned the ACT 6 puck ( New) up.
Now for Aris disk, will be next, hopefully later this week. Ralph
Now for Aris disk, will be next, hopefully later this week. Ralph
CJ
11-17-04, 01:33 AM
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We have a Mustang Dyno with a ton of different sensors for testing that we can graph etc.
We can also measue Slippeage in the clutch and measure drive train losses plus a few more we had custom built for appplications. Most shops measure AF and boost and rpm.
Built into our dyno datalogging is graphing capabilities for all of these EGT,intake air temp,outside air temp,fuel pressure, 2 widebands,2 boost guages,optical RPM,knock sensor,Baro metric pressure, humidity, clutch and tire slippeage etc.
We at GroundZero take our dynoing seriously for best results. Ralph
We can also measue Slippeage in the clutch and measure drive train losses plus a few more we had custom built for appplications. Most shops measure AF and boost and rpm.
Built into our dyno datalogging is graphing capabilities for all of these EGT,intake air temp,outside air temp,fuel pressure, 2 widebands,2 boost guages,optical RPM,knock sensor,Baro metric pressure, humidity, clutch and tire slippeage etc.
We at GroundZero take our dynoing seriously for best results. Ralph
11-17-04, 01:39 AM
#66
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
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Are you going to test the af and egt in both exhaust ports at the same time when testing your new lim? Thats what I'd really like to see. Basically just a before and after of the af and egt in both ports. Dont change anything but the lim and see how the egt and af is affected.
If thats how you plan on doing it that would be awesome
If thats how you plan on doing it that would be awesome
11-17-04, 02:53 AM
#67
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The problem is we cant get the widebands in the manifolds by the ports because of size and also the heat would be to much. Our widebands are horribas and the sensor alone is
$600 apiece. I have egts i my own car right now with the manifold and with driving and
boosting they are almost dead on as compared to the factory manifold. But we have only one egt transducer for the dyno itself and use it very little for the race cars, we just read the plugs. Ralph I might be able to get som vids of the EGT in my car. Ralph
$600 apiece. I have egts i my own car right now with the manifold and with driving and
boosting they are almost dead on as compared to the factory manifold. But we have only one egt transducer for the dyno itself and use it very little for the race cars, we just read the plugs. Ralph I might be able to get som vids of the EGT in my car. Ralph
11-17-04, 06:27 PM
#70
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Originally Posted by Xcessive
We have a Mustang Dyno with a ton of different sensors for testing that we can graph etc.
We can also measue Slippeage in the clutch and measure drive train losses plus a few more we had custom built for appplications. Most shops measure AF and boost and rpm.
Built into our dyno datalogging is graphing capabilities for all of these EGT,intake air temp,outside air temp,fuel pressure, 2 widebands,2 boost guages,optical RPM,knock sensor,Baro metric pressure, humidity, clutch and tire slippeage etc.
We at GroundZero take our dynoing seriously for best results. Ralph
We can also measue Slippeage in the clutch and measure drive train losses plus a few more we had custom built for appplications. Most shops measure AF and boost and rpm.
Built into our dyno datalogging is graphing capabilities for all of these EGT,intake air temp,outside air temp,fuel pressure, 2 widebands,2 boost guages,optical RPM,knock sensor,Baro metric pressure, humidity, clutch and tire slippeage etc.
We at GroundZero take our dynoing seriously for best results. Ralph
11-18-04, 07:48 PM
#72
I too talked to Ralph yesterday for about 20 minutes. He's making a list of all interested parties. If the list is long enough, he's going to figure up a price break. So GET ON THE LIST!
Ralph's a trip to talk to. Very friendly guy.
By the way Ralph, if you could, send me link to the EGT setup you were telling me about. Thanks, Zach
Ralph's a trip to talk to. Very friendly guy.
By the way Ralph, if you could, send me link to the EGT setup you were telling me about. Thanks, Zach
11-24-04, 03:52 PM
#75
Xcessive can you post the difference in weight between this LIM and the stock one?
My guess is that elimination of the ACV and EGT stuff should make the manifold much lighter.
I am interested in this for a project I am working on, so please post some pic's and prices when time allows.
My guess is that elimination of the ACV and EGT stuff should make the manifold much lighter.
I am interested in this for a project I am working on, so please post some pic's and prices when time allows.