View Poll Results: Would you be interested in tubular front control arms?
Yes
70
83.33%
No
14
16.67%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll
Any interest in tubular front control arms?
Thread Starter
Super Snuggles
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 10,091
Likes: 34
From: Redmond, WA
Any interest in tubular front control arms?
With replaceable ball joints? Once your stock ball joints wear out, you'll have to replace the entire control arm because the ball joints are not serviceable.
Even at Mazda Comp pricing, this could cost you $800+ if you had to replace all four front control arms (upper and lower, each side).
If you could get a set of four in the $400-500 range and never have to replace a control arm again, would it be worth it to you?
Just curious, since I'm probably going to have a set made for myself.
Even at Mazda Comp pricing, this could cost you $800+ if you had to replace all four front control arms (upper and lower, each side).
If you could get a set of four in the $400-500 range and never have to replace a control arm again, would it be worth it to you?
Just curious, since I'm probably going to have a set made for myself.
Thread Starter
Super Snuggles
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 10,091
Likes: 34
From: Redmond, WA
Well, there are a couple options. One is to eliminate the bushings and use a rod-end style suspension, but those won't hold up long on the street when subjected to road grit by daily driving. They'll eventually eat themselves up because they have no dust covers to protect the bearings. They're also very noisy.
Second option is to produce a tubular arm which uses stock bushings (or Unobtainium bushings, in Bacon's case) which doesn't have the problems of a rod-end suspension, but would be a little heavier.
Either way, you'd still have a cheap replaceable ball joint should yours ever wear out.
Second option is to produce a tubular arm which uses stock bushings (or Unobtainium bushings, in Bacon's case) which doesn't have the problems of a rod-end suspension, but would be a little heavier.
Either way, you'd still have a cheap replaceable ball joint should yours ever wear out.
Thread Starter
Super Snuggles
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 10,091
Likes: 34
From: Redmond, WA
Originally posted by ghiaracer
Hell yes. I was almost ready to buy the set they sell in Japan. I dont really drive my FD on the street so I want rodends.
Hell yes. I was almost ready to buy the set they sell in Japan. I dont really drive my FD on the street so I want rodends.
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Thread Starter
Super Snuggles
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 10,091
Likes: 34
From: Redmond, WA
Re: .
Originally posted by pedro kim
what kind of metal are you going to used?
what kind of metal are you going to used?
I'll have to consult with my fabricator to see what he recommends. Chromemoly steel, more than likely, for strength and weight savings.
Thread Starter
Super Snuggles
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 10,091
Likes: 34
From: Redmond, WA
Originally posted by DomFD3S
Does anyone have a picture of the stock control arms from the FSM?
Does anyone have a picture of the stock control arms from the FSM?
Here are a few good pictures of the stock control arms...
http://www.geocities.com/valspeed/RX...ront_susp1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/valspeed/RX...ront_susp2.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/valspeed/RX...ront_susp4.jpg
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
From: The 'Nati, Ohio
Originally posted by DomFD3S
For some reason, it says "This page is not available". Is it just me?
For some reason, it says "This page is not available". Is it just me?
Put your arrow over the link and drag it up to the address bar.
Later,
Patrick
Last edited by pweizman; Jan 25, 2002 at 01:29 PM.
Jim,
Did you mean that if have it made out of chromoly steel, it would be slightly heavier than the stock arms? In one post you said it would be heavier, then in another you'd chose the c. steel for the weight savings. is it, you'd chose the c. steel since its light and saves weight over other material, but still a tad heavier than stock? Or its lighter than stock? Just trying to clarify it to myself.
Tim Benton
Did you mean that if have it made out of chromoly steel, it would be slightly heavier than the stock arms? In one post you said it would be heavier, then in another you'd chose the c. steel for the weight savings. is it, you'd chose the c. steel since its light and saves weight over other material, but still a tad heavier than stock? Or its lighter than stock? Just trying to clarify it to myself.
Tim Benton
Thread Starter
Super Snuggles
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 10,091
Likes: 34
From: Redmond, WA
Originally posted by Tim Benton
Jim,
Did you mean that if have it made out of chromoly steel, it would be slightly heavier than the stock arms? In one post you said it would be heavier, then in another you'd chose the c. steel for the weight savings. is it, you'd chose the c. steel since its light and saves weight over other material, but still a tad heavier than stock? Or its lighter than stock? Just trying to clarify it to myself.
Tim Benton
Jim,
Did you mean that if have it made out of chromoly steel, it would be slightly heavier than the stock arms? In one post you said it would be heavier, then in another you'd chose the c. steel for the weight savings. is it, you'd chose the c. steel since its light and saves weight over other material, but still a tad heavier than stock? Or its lighter than stock? Just trying to clarify it to myself.
Tim Benton
I need to get my rear suspension fabricated first, but will be talking to the fabricater about the control arms for the front shortly thereafter. I'll also be starting work on a light kit soon, so there's a lot going on.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
From: Kalifornia
Hi Jim.
Chromemoly tubing is great stuff but post weld stress relieving is” MANDITORY.” Lots of people will say I am full of Sht. I have seen welds break, crack, shatter ect. I saw the aftermath of a cage that busted up. I talked with the cars owner and he said that the fabricator bead blasted portions of the cage to clean it. “Very stupid because it work hardened the welds.”
If you have pieces made please make sure the welder is certified. Certification is easy. He should at least be able to pass the 5G. Then x-ray and stress relieve the welds. X-ray optional. If you do the minimum you will definitely sleep better knowing that when you are at speed and bump something your C-arms are not going to break apart.
Oh buy the way I work in the pressure vessel field. Section VIII DIV I II V and many more sections of the ASME code that are a pain in the ***. I have done Quality Control, Destructive Testing and read X-rays on welds in SAW, Inner shield, ECT. for more than 10 years. I know bla, bla, bla. So to end this to end this I am sure unwanted lecture “PLEASE” have the welds stress relieved you will thank me later.
Just out of curiosity when is your projected finish date. Mine was 11/1/01. and mine is stile in pieces.
Best of luck with your project
Chromemoly tubing is great stuff but post weld stress relieving is” MANDITORY.” Lots of people will say I am full of Sht. I have seen welds break, crack, shatter ect. I saw the aftermath of a cage that busted up. I talked with the cars owner and he said that the fabricator bead blasted portions of the cage to clean it. “Very stupid because it work hardened the welds.”
If you have pieces made please make sure the welder is certified. Certification is easy. He should at least be able to pass the 5G. Then x-ray and stress relieve the welds. X-ray optional. If you do the minimum you will definitely sleep better knowing that when you are at speed and bump something your C-arms are not going to break apart.
Oh buy the way I work in the pressure vessel field. Section VIII DIV I II V and many more sections of the ASME code that are a pain in the ***. I have done Quality Control, Destructive Testing and read X-rays on welds in SAW, Inner shield, ECT. for more than 10 years. I know bla, bla, bla. So to end this to end this I am sure unwanted lecture “PLEASE” have the welds stress relieved you will thank me later.
Just out of curiosity when is your projected finish date. Mine was 11/1/01. and mine is stile in pieces.
Best of luck with your project
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
From: Glendale , CA ,
Speaking of tubular stuff, Does anyone have chassis building experience that might be able to tell me about using a tube frame for just the firewall forwards? I'm particularly interested in attatchment to the rear, and if a set of 1/4 inch plates welded to the FD would be strong, for attachment points, to spread out the load to the thin sheetmetal.
Les
Les
WWFSMD
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,035
Likes: 4
From: SoCal
Jim,
I will be interested when I need to replace the ball joints. I might do it before to get more degrees of freedom at the mounting points with some heim joints. Baker Precision sells dust boots for heim joints (and I am sure you can get them elsewhere as well), which might be the trick setup for all purposes. It would be nice to have heim joints so that they could be replaced easily.
-Max
I will be interested when I need to replace the ball joints. I might do it before to get more degrees of freedom at the mounting points with some heim joints. Baker Precision sells dust boots for heim joints (and I am sure you can get them elsewhere as well), which might be the trick setup for all purposes. It would be nice to have heim joints so that they could be replaced easily.
-Max
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
From: Huntington Beach, CA, USA
Originally posted by ghiaracer
yeah 2800
But for what you get...
yeah 2800
But for what you get...
I'm not sure I know the parts you speak of. Are they control arms like Jim is planning to make? Do you have a link?If you just want a ball jointed suspension, I have seen a Japanese 18 bushing pillow ball replacement set made by FEED. The price on that set is 128,000 YEN, which by the latest exchange rates is about $950. I don't know what it would cost to ship them over, though. From the pictures, it looks like they come with dust covers, but there isn't too much of a description to be sure. Check out this page, if you like:
http://www.pac-gate.co.jp/feed/fd3s-fe.html
Thread Starter
Super Snuggles
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 10,091
Likes: 34
From: Redmond, WA
Originally posted by Red Rotary Rocket
Well...what do you get? I'm not sure I know the parts you speak of. Are they control arms like Jim is planning to make? Do you have a link?
If you just want a ball jointed suspension, I have seen a Japanese 18 bushing pillow ball replacement set made by FEED. The price on that set is 128,000 YEN, which by the latest exchange rates is about $950. I don't know what it would cost to ship them over, though. From the pictures, it looks like they come with dust covers, but there isn't too much of a description to be sure. Check out this page, if you like:
http://www.pac-gate.co.jp/feed/fd3s-fe.html
Well...what do you get?
I'm not sure I know the parts you speak of. Are they control arms like Jim is planning to make? Do you have a link?If you just want a ball jointed suspension, I have seen a Japanese 18 bushing pillow ball replacement set made by FEED. The price on that set is 128,000 YEN, which by the latest exchange rates is about $950. I don't know what it would cost to ship them over, though. From the pictures, it looks like they come with dust covers, but there isn't too much of a description to be sure. Check out this page, if you like:
http://www.pac-gate.co.jp/feed/fd3s-fe.html
