Hmm... guess I got confused when I read that nitro funny cars burn through the spark plug and use them as glow plugs.

Hehe, no you probably werent confused. Maybe you read it in MAD magazine :)

or maybe they do. nitro/SC drag cars are detonation machines. Thats the main reason they replace engines every run or so. If a engine only has to last 4 sec at power, it can detonate and not heat soak the head so it MAY make it through the run. As we know, many dont make it.

Nice Search, Matty

STAR TUBE
Attack of the Clones

im sure all this is serious. all i wanna see is a product with "shipped" sale price. . . with instructions of course. :D

paul

His son was in California last time I talked to Skip... j/k man. But it does seem that you have some inside info on this.

This is more news that points to the fact that KDR's miracle product does work! Good news for rotary enthusiasts everywhere.

Right, I understand that there would still be a point where the car would detonate. But lets just say that for example you could run an AFR of 16:1 before it'd detonate. That gives you a lot more room in tuning, and gives you the opportunity to hit the 14.7:1 that we rotary enthusiasts so long to have.

Sounds like you will soon enough Paul. ;)

piston engines envy that ratio as well. . . i dont think 14.7:1 is a happy number in my book. . . just too dangerous. too many variables.

paul

Good job Matty........... the force is strong in u.........

Re: Anti-Detonation device explained...........
 

BATMAN, you had better stay in your cave and bone up on what detonation is. You're trying to explain something from hearing someone talk but has no idea.

First, detonation is as the name says, explosion rather than combustion but which explosions occur spontaneously rather than as desired by the engine controller. Second, detonation is not always bad depending on where it occurs in the combustion cycle. To wit, ever listened to a diesel? Explain to me why it's doesn't punch a hole in the piston.
Third, if detonation is the result of large particle size, then why the hell does dumping a shit load of fuel reduces detonation? (hint, hint, internal engine cooling)
Fourth, atomization of fuel is always good. But in and of itself, atomization doesn't explain why this device works.
Fifth, the technique that allows one to ignite a lean mixture with little or no detonation is to have a pre-ignition chamber that is filled with a rich fuel mixture. The rich fuel mixture is used to ignite the lean fuel mixture with the result that detonation is reduced. Your explanation sounds like this pre-ignition chamber that I raised when 911GT first brought up the subject.

I can't believe the shit that are propagated in this forum as the WORD.

Re: Anti-Detonation device explained...........
 

Forget anti-detonation. How do I get in on this daily vomit meal thing???

I want to also add that this air assist atomization technique has been around for a long time. Orbital engine of Australia is foremost in this field.

I never gave all the information............. just a tease.

If I were to dole out the entire information it would be almost 200 pages long. Ur eyeballs would have fallen out already.

So what kinda patent do u specialize in?

I'm very interested, but I'll wait till a couple people try it out. I hope its something I can get without actually driving to KDR.:p:

You live in $%*!@ PA! Don't gimme crap about driving there...

CA is longer and thicker than most of ur eastern states combined ;)

Yeah, but we got KDR on our side. They're starting a rotary revolution! And I can get there faster than you so :wavey: see ya when you get here!

settle down dood...until the shit works and is on the market there is NO evidence that points to anything.

youve been sold. People got all hyped like this about a certain set of untested turbos. now look what happened....9 out of 10 sets dont work properly.

just because you think something is going to work doesnt mean it will. period. ive got twenty five grand into my motor and turbos and mods...ive used tested and untested parts...with the untested comes the learning curve...and with the learning curve comes mistakes...with mistakes comes lost funds and downtime.

so...beware the hype....if the shit works..great...if not...you go ahead and be the guy to let me know...cuz no way in hell do i want to be that guy.


j

I don't doubt that there is some device that can do this. I have been in this business long enough to see instances of counter-intuitive stuff that works.

What I doubt is your explanation of detonation. It doesn't sound like you know what detonation is. And because your explanation is so vague, it tends to discredit your explanation of how the device work.

As for patents, I do electro-mechanical devices, actuators, magnetic actuators, some software, but mostly fuel injectors for a huge int'l corp. And because patent examiners are engineers, you have to explain things very clearly.

Be careful of getting a patent for the sake of getting a patent. A patent is a legal tool that must be planned with foresight as to how it will be used. Getting a willy nilly patent will get you nowhere and profit the lawyers.

Re: Re: Anti-Detonation device explained...........
 

Umm, look....I don't want to get involved in flamage back and forth here. But I think you're kinda gettin' a little worked up and jumpin' the gun here, poman. I not trying and don't want to sound condescending here; just trying to impart the right information to everyone.

No one never said detonation was the result of fuel droplets being too large-- but it is true that with a much more atomized fuel/air mixture (smaller fuel droplets), you get a more controlled "burn", which helps to prevent detonation or pre-ignition. Detonation in a descriptive sense with regards to internal combustion engines is kind of misleading; it's not so much an "explosion", it's more of an uncontrolled burn of the fuel/air mixture in the combustion chamber. The whole idea behind running richer fuel mixtures to prevent detonation is to control the burn in the combustion chamber, whether through keeping combustion chamber temps under control (like you referred to) so "hotspots" aren't created that will pre-ignite the mixture, or to make the mixture rich enough so that the flame front (as the mixture burns) is slowed, since the fuel octane isn't sufficient to control the flame front. The whole idea behind octane is to slow the speed of the mixture's burn rate in the combustion chamber. But if you make the atomization of the fuel/air mixture fine enough, you can control the burn just as well (or better, depending on circumstances) as if you had a much higher octane rated fuel. That is the principal behind this "StarTube" device.

And while I originally thought that this device used the principals of injecting a "pre-mixed" mixture like the Orbital direct injection technology, I'm not so sure now that it's exactly the same. Plus, direct injection would be much more expensive (I'd think, at least) than $800-something to market, since you need to use air pressure to assist the direct injection. I wish there was more info on this StarTube device, but I haven't been able to find it yet.

Again, I don't want to sound like I'm a know-it-all, and I don't want to sound condescending to you or anyone. But I think the right info needed to be stated here.

Oh, and yeah, it's still possible to achieve detonation with this device (but it would take some work); and there's no way I'll pony up the dosh until I see a lot of others getting substantiated results.

Man, I've never seen such hype since, what, windows 95?
Maybe KDR can get the Stones to license them a song too.
I think it's time that whomever is behind all this hype either dispel some myths and state some fact or all this speculation is going to do more harm than good. Right now it sounds so much like "Oh, she's got a real good personality" blind date. You can polish a turd but it's still a turd, you know what I mean?

Frank

I know if you were thinking you would assumed this would happen. I am in no way bashing you, I have no reason too. What you are doing is actually just lame. There is another thread about this and well it went on and on. I know KDR is reputable and I am not saying it is impossible for them to create such a device but, why not wait until they actually have something to say about it?

You offer no proof, and a no comment. It seems more like a sales pitch then anything else.

:crackup:LOL

Yea, I'm actually less than 2hrs away from nazareth, but I like to do all the work myself. I never was at KDR. I called once and they said to book dyno time it would be about 3 months. I can't plan that far ahead.:D

Damn forum lag! See below

All this talk about the device allowing for the engine to have a more complete combustion, makes me think they are using injectors from the Rx8 in addition to this device. I heard those injectors have a really fine spray pattern.


Oh by the way, any idea when they expect to have this device ready? Or do they plan on waiting till sevenstock?

True, I intentionally didn't offer proof since that would explain the technology in great detail, thus severely hindering KDR's ability to secure a patent (if that was part of their intent). Once it's disclosed then it becomes publuc information and then the patent attorneys will have their hands full.

What do attorneys do when they have their hands full? They usually charge more to fix or address a situation.

U almost sound like a Liberal trying to get free information for all to see and use at the expense of someone else's hard work......... but I'm not going to go there.

Bah humbug!