doctorzaius

If you're only objective is to avoid accidents that will happen the instant that you remove your ABS, then I agree that this is excellent advice. But in the real world, where one accident can result in millions of dollars in medical bills (or loss of life) you can bet your *** that plaintiff's attorneys are going to be salivating over the fact that you removed an accident avoiding safety device. If I'm on the plaintiff's side and I'm going after your savings or your house, there's no way I'm not putting that in front of the jury.

turboIIrotary

iTrader: (9)

Abs was not mandatory back then so it was a feature. My brother was in an accident which did kill someone it wasn't his fault but they didnt do a strip down of the car. Why? because he wasn't held liable and simply they don't do that.

Now lets say you do happen to get in an accident which is your fault. Having abs isnt somehow going to save you it was your fault in the first place. That is what insurance is for, it pays out liability.

My miata doesn't have abs are you going sue me because i didnt pick the higher package? Sounds ridiculous huh?

muibubbles

iTrader: (36)

no abs here, LOVE the pedal feel i think my bias is set to about 60/40 f/r

Ceylon

iTrader: (3)

In the UK, unless you declare the fact you've removed your ABS (And pay a higher premium assuming they will even insure you), your insurance is invalid.

thewird

iTrader: (8)

Easy solution, don't get into an accident. If your going to remove the ABS, have the logic to learn how to use your brakes without thinking. Go to a few track days, get the feel for it.

But honestly, there is no point to removing it unless your tracking the car and it has nothing to do with the weight. It doesn't weigh that much.

thewird

turboIIrotary

iTrader: (9)

They do that here in the U.S. well they don't raise your insurance they call it a discount if you have things like abs and air bags. Just treat it like it came that way from factory.

ssonsk

haha better get some rainx

that stuff works amazingly If it's hurricane rain then you don't even need the wipers

seandizzie

iTrader: (1)

I was wondering, first you own 1 car with abs, then you have a Subaru with ABS, then your ole lady drives a Miata with out abs. These are slighty conflicting facts.

In Ice conditions I could see abs being annoying and having longer stoping distances but you can pull the fuse not the hole thing. Who the hell drive their FD on Ice??

But on dry/wet pavement in a panic stop situation like, your doing 140mph and a car pulls out in front of you, abs will save your *** and your tires, flat spots suck. Look at formula 1 racing, even those cats lock up the brakes in panic/crash situations and they are top notch drivers.

doctorzaius

No one is going to sue you because you don't have ABS. They are going to sue you because they think that they can prove that your actions resulted in their harm. Modifying your car in a way that makes it less safe helps them make that case.

Narfle

iTrader: (16)

This is the worst misconception about ABS.
No driver can "out-brake" ABS. Not even the FD's 20yr old abs.
ABS only activates after the wheel speed sensors detect slippage, in which case the human has already lost. ABS modulates brake pressure faster than any human alive. What it doesn't do well is approach the limit gracefully.

If it's not about pedal feel and at-the-limit racing, keep the ABS.

reo

iTrader: (4)

Forget the lawsuits. Ignore your Machismo. The fact is the abs will stop the car quicker than a human can and do it while still letting you have directional control and contrary to what has been claimed here it will do it on slick roads, even ice. If it is going to be a driver keep the abs functional cuz it may just save your life or the life of someone who is more important. Personally abs would be left on for a track car if the rules allowed it and only removed if there were come valid arguments presented. The exception might be drifting where you may want to use the brakes to lose traction. I do not wish to have it on my buggy that is used off-road as the brakes are used to set-up a drift for the corners. but now that I have enough power to do that with out brakes perhaps they would be an advantage in being able to shut down later. Bottom line-- Keep The Abs unless there is a very good reason for not having it. And certainly keep it on the street.

turboIIrotary

iTrader: (9)

It's already your fault if you caused an accident no proving anything is needed. No one i repeat no one is going to sue if they have been hit by someone in a modified car.

turboIIrotary

iTrader: (9)

Cool you know how to misqoute go back and add the rest of the sentence.

What sharing a car is not normal? Pulling the fuse is dangerous it doesn't have the right brake bias your rear tires can lock up before your front. I have driven my fd on ice along with millions of others who don't have abs in there vehicle.

Why are you driving 140mph on a road with others on it? Even if you did have abs that is just stupid.

turboIIrotary

iTrader: (9)

Go around a snow covered turn hit the abs and see what happens i guarantee you will spin. I witness spinouts on ice all the time according to you the car should be going straight...Have you ever driven a non abs car on the street? If not I don't think you should contribute because all you are making are assumptions of a non abs car.

Yes there are advantages and disadvantages of both but you guys are acting like it is the end of the world when you remove it.

ncaudio

iTrader: (14)

For a street driven car I think it's an advantage even if only for an extreme emergency situation. In a few limited situations like on slick snowy roads it can be an advantage to not have it (since the snow can't pile up in front of the tire with ABS), but in the case of somebody running a light or something it's an advantage to have, abs, even 20 year old variety, works better than skidding front tires. Some lady pulled out of side street without looking while I was on the way to work doing about 50 driving my CRX, I left very long skidmarks and a cloud of smoke on the way up to her door, which I stopped just short of, she then drove off leaving me to thump down the road with flat spotted tires that needed to be replaced.

reo

iTrader: (4)

Am 71 drove most of my life without abs, currently have a superformance S1 with willwoods (no abs) and it is a hand full on slick roads, jump on the brakes with abs in a curve or turn and it will stop while still going where you point it. it will not save you if you are going too fast to make the turn that you are attempting. I have more hours on ice at high speeds than many on dry pavement. And I do test the ability of every system that I get. Have not encountered stability control as yet.

turboIIrotary

iTrader: (9)

Sounds like you have the wrong tires or you are driving too fast for the conditions. Driving the miata doesnt feel any different than any other car. Maybe I am just more cautious than others and know when to slow down.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

Lawsuit talk is worthless here. I like ABS, no the FD system is not the best but it is the second generation ABS and can control the front wheels independently which is great for autox, preventing lock up on the inside front.

I think is a great back up on the street as well, I have stomped the brake pedal in an emergency situation w/o flat spotting the tires.

In the end it is your car and I suspect you already have your mind made up...

seandizzie

iTrader: (1)

Can't out brake abs in a panic stop. Again Watch F1 when they panic stop.

O yea, you mod your car to drive the speed limit, ya....

doctorzaius

That's the whole point. If you are being sued for wrongful death or some other civil matter, then the plaintiff has to establish your "fault". There's certainly no good reason that they wouldn't use the fact that you've modified your car to help make that case.

turboIIrotary

iTrader: (9)

You won't even have time to think of hitting the brake pedal when going 140. Do you really think abs is going to save you at that high of speeds? You will most likely die in that accident.

Do our cars go as fast as f1? Do they handle like f1? Are we racing on winding roads within feet of each other? What is the point of comparing a full out race car in very different settings with a street car?

Having a modified car does not give you the right to drive fast. You are worried about non abs braking but not worried about smashing into someone at 140...Hey guys lets go really fast on a street full of other cars my car is modded and I have abs! I am invincible!

turboIIrotary

iTrader: (9)

You won't get sued for wrongfull death, If it was proven that they were at fault then it's their fault. My Brother didn't get sued when someone was killed in the accident. They ran a stop sign putting them at fault. The family would have to be crazy to try and make a case of wrongfull death when it was clear what happened.

I could t-bone someone who ran a red light and not even touch the brake. Is it my fault that my reactions were not fast enough? Or were they wrong in running the stop light? I vote running the stop light is in the wrong.


You guys are thinking way far out there it is very unlikely that you are going to get sued over removing abs. If you think that way then you can get sued for running those drag radials, removing bumper supports, lowering your car, different brake rotors, different master cylinders, and so on. They all affect safety.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i thought the point was if it was better to keep it or ditch it, not bitch and argue about legalities.

ABS will assist with control when you don't have time to think about skidding and steering through. it will allow you some control to avoid an accident. on the track it's a different story, some prefer it and some dislike it and want full control. being on street slicks he won't be throwing the car into a corner at 100, so...

the system isn't worth the effort to remove for the minor weight difference/simplification and you may actually thank yourself for keeping it someday. that is what i would tell you if you walked in the door with your scenario.

doctorzaius

You don't honestly believe that fault is that easy to determine in every case, do you?

turboIIrotary

iTrader: (9)

I am not an accident investigator so I don't know. If i was trying to figure out who was at fault I wouldn't be looking what the car is equipped with. I would be looking at skidmark directions and impact points of the cars. Along with witnesses.

Karack is right there is no reason to argue everyone has their views so I am officially done.