ChrisRX7

I went and looked at a 1993 RX7 R1. It's in excellent shape and has rebuilt turbos in it as of 200 Miles ago. The car currently has 59,400 miles on it. He took me for a test drive in it and it felt very strong.

The car when he FIRST started it up smoked for a few seconds and then the smoke wasn't there anymore after that. He said that's normal when you first start them up. Is this true?

Also, when we got back from the test drive, it was leaking some antifreeze. He said he just filled it and must have put too much in and that was just run off. What's your opinion on that too....

Is there anything else I should be looking at.

I also included a pic of the car

Thanks.


Chris

curlybillbrosie

No. It is not normal to see smoke on start up. Anti freeze runoff? what kind of bullshit is that? He is leaking coolant. He's already lied to you about two major things. If I were you, I would beat the **** out of him and then tell him that i'm not buying the car. It's probably going to need a new engine and who knows what else.

911GT2

The smoke is indeed normal on startup, especially if it has sat for a little while ( say, at a dealership) and even more common if the weather is cold.

Leaking coolant though, is not a good sign. It all depends on where it is leaking from. The best advice I can give you is to take it to a reputable rotary shop (I would try Barry at BPR in Salem, MA, his contact info is in the New England section, under thread heading "List of NE mechanics"). They should be able to tell you if the leak is a hose, or something worse.

An easy check to make sure the engine is not leaking is to open the coolant filler cap, and looks for "champagne bubbles" Basically if the coolant is bubbling like champage, the o-rings in the engine are leaking, and the engine needs to be rebuilt/replaced.

I'm not trying to scare you here, just trying to save you money and aggrivation. See if the owner will let you take it up to BPR, he should be able to make sure all is well.

overkill

The white smoke on startup can be quite normal. It usually is condensation in the exhaust. As far as the coolant leak, if he overfilled the overflow reservoir, once the coolant heats up and expands, it can overflow. Keep in mind that if you overfill the coolant reservoir in the least bit, it will usually spill out after you drive. So basically the coolant issue could be nothing.Just make sure thats where the leak is coming from....

rynberg

Smoke SHOULD NOT be considered normal. I get some white smoke for the first 30 seconds or so because I have the beginnings of o-ring failure. Blue or black smoke indicates other problems.

Yes, on 12A first gens, you could certainly expect a good cloud of oil smoke if the car had been sitting a while, but any reasonably driven FD should not do this.

I would be very concerned about the car's health. Even if he did just overfill the coolant, he shouldn't have had to add any in the first place unless there's a problem....

adam c

iTrader: (2)

My FD has 49k. When I first start it, I get a little bit of dark smoke. It's not much, and it goes away very quickly. I would say this is normal. White smoke is probably not normal.

A coolant leak is not normal. I would not assume that the seller is lying. You might miss out on a nice car by doing that. I would have the car checked out by a mechanic that is experienced with these cars. You can't make a better investment than spending some money getting things checked over.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

You've seen some people here say smoke is normal, some say smoke is not. A little smoke with no other warning symptoms seems common for many of us.

The full story is that smoke is not normal, steam is normal, but they look a lot alike. If the humidity is high (especially chilly days), I find the car puts out some steam that looks like white smoke for about 30s-2min. It depends on conditions. It always smells somewhat sweet because of the rich fuel mixture during the warmup cycle. Oil smoke has a different smell/color, and coolant also different (coolant smells like maple syrup, and will smokescreen your neighborhood, so I'm told).

True smoke can indicate burning oil (from bad turbos) or burning coolant (bad engine seals). Both are bad. Get the compression test to test the engine seals, and look for the champagne bubbles.

Antifreeze leaks are not normal. At worst, they indicate a leak in the system, and on an FD, coolant losss results in engine death very quickly. Not cool. If it's overfilled coolant, you should give him **** for not being able to fill a coolant reservoir correctly.

At the very least give the guy **** for not knowing his stuff or trying to lie.

It's not too easy to find a good FD here in the Northeast. Keep digging and wait until you find the seller whose car you can trust.

Oh, and the bottom line is have it looked at by a rotary-experienced shop. Get a compression test done. Then there will be no questions and you can sleep well.

Dave

rex4x

does it leak primarily when the car is shut off? Is it from the overflow tank? if you answered yes to both of these the car would possibly like a new thermostat... you have the same problem I had, and a new thermostat fixed the leaking ...

the guy I bought my car from said the EXACT same thing after I took a test drive. he said "I filled it up with too much coolant, it expands when it gets hot.. overflow releases what IT THINKS is excess coolant". Good thinking but its wrong. The thermostat is shot, I will bet you that when you replace it the problem will go away. But try to use it as a bargaining tool

As far as the smoke goes, I would be somewhat weary.. The more smoke (ie long period of time and thickness) the worse the 'problem' could be.. how much does he want?

TwinTriangles

I get white smoke once in a while when I start up my car, I would say primarily after its has been sitting for a few days, sometimes its allot, sometimes its not, sometimes i'll be waiting at a long red light and i'll start to smoke allot, I know a few FC's which are the same way, Im not worried becuz my car pulls hard and starts everytime and doesnt leak anything, so my conclusion is yes smoke from a rotary with absolutely no emissions is extremely normal...

johnchabin

iTrader: (2)

A bad o-ring can produce the same symptoms. Please read:
http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/o-ring_failure.html

ChrisRX7

Thanks for all the help and posts so far you guys have given me.

Since i'm new to the RX7 scene, I felt this was the best place to get some high quality info. I absolutely love this car. It's just incredible. Too bad they don't produce them for the US anymore.

The RX7 is an obsession of mine. I've always loved the car and never bought one.

I got a 350z back in sept 02 and it just doesn't do it for me. So I'm selling that one to get the RX7. Foutunately I have enough cash to buy the RX7 and then sell the Z.

The color of the smoke by the way was a blackish blue color. It lasted for about 15 seconds then disappeared. It was VERY HOT the day I looked at it. Plus it seems that he rarely drives it.

I'm going to be bringing it to the dealer where he purchased it to get the compression checked and the coolant issue. I talked to the guy for a while at the service department where the car came from and he gave me the complete history of the car off the service computer. He sounded very informed about it and said as far as they know, last time the car was in, it was in excellent condition both mechanically and cosmetically. He noted the turbo issues and told me what went on with that. The car was in there when it had 57000 miles. It now has about 59400 w/ freshly rebuilt turbos. I really think it's possible it might be an issue again. I would prefer the 99' spec turbos, since they have resolved some supposed issues. The car had two recalls done on it. One with the fuel lines and another with a line due to heat issues.

A note on the turbos. The turbos had some issues when he first bought it about a year ago. Since it was under warranty from the dealer, they had them rebuilt. The dealer supposedly had the car for about 3 months as I'm told when the first turbo issue was diagnosed. 92 miles later after the rebuilt turbos were in, they failed. He then had the turbos sent to Turbonetics for a complete rebuild. I saw the invoice from turbonetics showing what was done. It's been a few hundred miles since the new turbos were installed and the boost seemed to be VERY strong. (There's a boost gauge in the cablin). So all in all.... The car seems to be in great shape and runs VERY STRONG. I think I will be putting different turbos in there and doing all those reliability mods for it.

I want this car to be reliable, and NOT die out on me when I'm cruising.

So, with the new info I just given, any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Chris

johnchabin

iTrader: (2)

or anywhere...

If/when you go to 99 spec turbos, I'd be interested in your "old" ones.

Don't take the o-ring issue lightly. You will need an engine rebuild if you have a bad o-ring. I'd be wary of dealers in general. Are you near a 3rd gen specialist? Any help from Connecticut guys?

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Ahh, maybe the seller doesn't deserve any **** at all. There are just so many phony sellers out there I want to beat them all down.

But seriously, it sounds like you're covering all the important bases. Knowing the vehicle history is great - does it go back to day 1? Someday I may get around to contacting dealers/shops in the cities where my car was once at to fill in my story.

Dave

ChrisRX7

I will definitely let you know if I do upgrade the turbos. I'm really considering it because I don't need failing turbos.

Actually, there is a dealer called Connecticut's Own Mazda Volvo in Milford, CT. It's a town over. There is a 3rd Gen Specialist there who as I hear is supposed to be one of the best in the tri-state area.

Only one problem though. It's an hour away from where the car is. The owner is NOT willing to drive it down this way for me to have it checked. I told him I would buy it if it checked out ok. He seemed not inclined to do so.

He suggested If I wanted to take it to a dealer up his area that would be fine. So I was going to take it to the BMW/Mazda dealer in Ridgefield, CT which is about 15min from his place. But, problem is that they WON'T look at the car because they got into an argument about the turbo issues he previoulsly had and he IS NOT allowed there anymore. So the service dept. guy called me this morning (I called him yesterday and talked about a check on the car) and said that the General Manager would NOT allow the car to come there unless it was registered in my name.

What a bummer. That's the whole point. I didn't want to buy the car if it's suffering from some serious issues. But, to make a long story short, I offered the guy $18,000 for it and he accepted. Now it's just a matter of hooking it up with the 99' spec front end, turbos and rear taillights.........

Pick the car up this saturday!!! Thanks for all the help.

Fd3BOOST

iTrader: (7)

I will tel you right now, since Im not afraid to be the guy to break it to you . THAT CAR HAS ALL THE SIGNS OF A COOLANT SEAL FAILURE AND IS GOING TO NEED A NEW ENGINE LIKE ASAP!.
Im not joking, or trying to be a wiseass. Im just telling you like it is.
They almost always go right at 60k.
If he has to add coolant, or if it pisses on the ground aftre driving it.
Or rough idle/smoking at start up. Tinny air bubbles in the filler neck are all signs of a broken coolant seal.
I know cause I went through all that last summer.

http://www.fd3boost.com/Troubleshoot_oringfailure.php
http://www.fd3boost.com/my_project_page2.htm

altoid

I know you really want the car and all, but don't let that blind you. *puts flame suit on* 18,000k is alot of money for a 10yr. old car, and really expensive for one that will need a new engine soon. I know the car is "pretty" and everything too you, but whats the point if all it does is sit in your driveway after a few months. Oh yea, what did you not like about the z?

johnchabin

iTrader: (2)

Sounds like you have done it, so I hope it all works out for you. Just watch your coolant level in the filler neck each time after the car cools down. If coolant keeps disappearing from the system and appearing in the overflow tank (and overflowing), don't run out immediately and buy the 99 spec accessories... you may need that money for a rebuild.

As with any used car purchase, replace all your fluids (gear oils, engine oil, coolant, etc.) so you have a good starting point. Good luck!

Dougster

Wow good luck!
Really that does show signs of major engine trouble.
This 94 RX-7 Touring with 69k and NO ISSUES. sounds like a much better value for $15,995 OBO.
Good luck/skill though!