I ran with alot of guys (and a couple gals) that would make you WORK for that .5" in their Bimmers... Especially regarding what Mahjik said, about the small jump that you have to cross when modding the 'E' cars' bits.

I was referring to overall. If you were comparing it, specifically, with, say, suspension in mind, then it wouldn't hang (solely in stock trim) vs, say the NA Miata (as opposed to the NB, or second-gen), which has the best stock suspension for autocrossing, of any (equitably priced) car.

I think pound for pound (factoring in every facet of the two, from stock brakes, suspension, body roll: curb weight and chassis rigidity) the Bimmer is a better choice.

But if a person has the dough to hork up, and just wants to hot-rock a Cayman/S, then by all means, have at it.

Saw a brand new white '10 Cayman S on the way to work today. They took a page out of Audi's book with the LEDs below the headlamps but the car is slick and sexy looking. Beemers are about as sexy as a Camry with fat tires....no lines, boxy, boring, played out

Looks are subjective (I get no end of compliments on my M3, even from Porsche owners). However, you need to find what will put a smile on your face when you look at it. If it's not a BMW, then that's not the car for you. If it's a Porsche, open up the wallet and make it happen. ;)

I've been driving a 2000 m5 the last few days (gotta love people that don't make car payments) and the compliments keep coming my way. It's a gorgeous car and a blast to drive. As Mahjik said, taste in automotive styling is subjective.

I think Beemer M compliments stem from the fact that most enthisiasts know what the M badge stands for in terms of performance. Let's face it, Beemers (I prefer the original term from the old BMW motorcycle days to "Bimmer", which sounds flat out gay) don't really have curves; the basic shape resembles any number of luxury performance sedans by Lexus, Audi and Inifniti. A sports car should look like a sports car, not a sedan. The Cayman looks like a sports car. Furthermore, the current M3 is pushing a whopping 3700 pounds, compared to about 2900 for the Cayman. No comparison there.

For a aspiring Beemer track dog, this would seem to make more sense
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...rb-weight.html

Actually, when you look at the numbers (weight to power) the performance is about equal:

3700 / 414 hp = 8.93
2900 / 320 hp = 9.06

Not a lot of difference there and probably not enough that us "non-race car drivers" would ever be able to tell. Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer the Cayman to a the E92 M3. However, for something with a usable backseat (which some people need), that's not bad at all.

Uhm... Actually the 'I' in 'Bimmer' is pronounced (properly) the same way that you'd say 'Beamer,' due to the German/ Bavarian dialect of the vowels.

(Say them with me) Ah, Aye, EE, Oh, Oo....

Regardless, since we're talking autocrossing, the curb-weight means fucko. Like MahJik said, it's a correlation of power:weight. That's why my sportbike run's low 10s. Not because it makes a TON of power, but because the curbweight is so low vs. the amount of power it does make.

That's what I was saying before, about people who'd rock the SHIT out of their E30/36/46/90/92/93s and make you WORK for that .05", on the track. It wasn't necessarily that they were FAST, though they were, against the clock, but they had just enough in the right places (brakes and suspension) to whomp on stuff that they (logistically) shouldn't be able to....

Obviously BMW knows this war's going on.... Hell, they've been pitting the E90 against the new 911 Turbo (probably the 996 or 997) AND the new Nissan GTR!

And yes, lads and lasses.... It prevailed.

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I love Porsche! My first car was a 1981 Porsche 924 Turbo, which was a blast to drive and really sparked my love for sports cars. In fact owning the first Porsche is what lead me to buy my first Rx7 (an 88 GTU) and ignited my passion(obsession) with the Rx7 and the rotary... I have been into Porsche's ever since and have owned a bunch of 924's, 944's, a couple of 951's, & a 914 over the years as well as having driven a number of very nice Porsche's. I will say the 1996 Porsche 993 Twin Turbo has to be one of my favorite cars of all time and if given the option Id buy it over any other Porsche available...(RUF has an awesome Turbo R that has 579hp/600lbs-ft) But the Porsche Cayman S is a very fun car to drive. Its quick, has immediate turn in, strong brakes and is extremely well balanced at the limit, but I do feel Porsche held back too much on the car.. I don't really think it seperates itself enough from the Boxster S(also another fun car) and at that price tag it should... I am fond of the Boxster S and always thought that if it had the Porsche 911 Turbo or GT2 engine it would have the potential to be a true supercar... when I heard they were making the Cayman S I thought Porsche had finally came through and built the Boxster into the Porsche it always should have been, but was ultimately disappointed... For what it is, Id rather just pick up a used Boxster S for less than $15k, buy a hardtop/roll bar, good suspension and maybe toss in a Turbo engine or maybe a supercharger and have a faster more unique car that produces more smiles for less than half the price....

Or just do the right damn thing and build that rotary and FD so no Porsche can touch it... ;)

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Not buying it, you are greatly out-numbered if you claim curb weight doesn't matter. It does matter. Low mass pays dividends in nearly every category of track performance

That's only part of the equation, if it wasn't, you could hustle a 5000 pound Charger with 1000 hp around a track as quick as a go-kart with the same power to weight, which is pure insanity. Braking, acceleration, and suspension performance is more than simple power-to-weight ratios. This is why bikes routinely destroy cars on a track, and the gap keeps on widening as bike technology advances (particularly with regard to tires)

Go pick up the most recent Sport Rider to see an M3 get raped by an S1000RR
http://sportrider.automotive.com/vid...360/index.html

But light weight pays dividends in other areas aside from raw acceleration, that's the point

A (stock?) M3 beat a (stock) 997 turbo? LOL. Again, not buying that, either. Cmon, the thing weighs 3500 pounds, you can't defy the laws of physics with a badge.

Anyway, this is a thread about the Porsche Cayman and FD, not Beemer sports sedans

Beautiful shot.

That's a sports car, folks (not the Boxster ;) )

If you haven't seen it yet, Jeremy's review is quite amusing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riGej...eature=related

E46's are sure great cars, loving mine right now
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Ok, closing this thread as it no longer serves a purpose. Mark, time to sh*t or get off the pot. Make a decision and roll with it. ;)