320 rwhp FD vs. 2010 Porsche Cayman S
 

Which would you pick as a track weapon and why?

I'm having a lust affair with the Cayman S recently, maybe I'll get one.

The cayman because the oil lasts more than 500miles. And it's 5x the price. And it's a Porsche. And the brakes are more ready for the track.

FD.

Id leave the porsche for the everyday deal ;)

For a new cayman you could get a used 996/993 turbo which I would pick any day over the FD - at least the 993.

The 996 turbo is a monster but it looks a bit dated

993 turbo, maybe its just me but this will never look dated
http://www.aussiemotoring.com/pics/porsche-993.jpg

viper gts can also be had for around 35k which IMO is still better than the cayman.

It seems like a stupid financial decision to track a 2010 Cayman, especially since you have the depreciation and the potential of wrecking it. Would you be taking out a loan for the car? That's very relevent here. If money isn't an issue you can buy whatever, but most likely you will have to weigh the decision for its financial implications.

I would never go into debt to take a Cayman to a track. Not when you already have an FD and an s2000. What the hell is the point.

This.

I smoked a heavily modded one at my last event.

I danced around one on the street some time ago. These evaluations are always subject to whether the driver could drive, but I certainly didn't feel the car had anything on the FD. He layed it out there, and I met the challenge w/o much ado. Don't know why it would ever be a superior track choice.

The Caymans sure look nice and get great reviews but it doesn't make financial sense regardless how much you have to spend. That is if it's going to be a track car. You can do more with a lot less as the RX-7 proves all the time.

You would lose more in depreciation than you would in buying another RX-7 or something else in the price range and building it up to have strictly track car.

I agree with the others, the 993 are the last of the classic 911s. They look old compared to the 996 and 997 but they are more pure, classic, and small.

How is it dated? It's only a like 5 years ago.

Are we talking a dual purpose car or a dedicated track car?

For dual purpose, Cayman. For a dedicated track car, FD.

Mark, if you buy the Cayman please make sure you check in on us from time to time ;)

I was trying to figure out why it matters if the car looks dated or not... assuming this whole debate is about building a track car.

Take the FD. . .

This thread caught my eye because i've got 2 friends. . .1 with a Cayman S. . .and 1 with a 300+whp FD. . .thought the OP was either of them haha

FD walks all over it . . .they've got a video of them driving at the track . . .

I test drove a CaymanS recently because I had some of the same thoughts as you. As you know we both have an FD and an S2000 as a DD, so I assume that our interests in vehicles are fairly similar. I absolutely loved the caymanS. It was refined, classy, yet still a blast to drive. That being said, if "fun to drive" is youre deciding factor, Id take the FD hands down. I was thinking about selling my FD and S2000 and picking up a cayman, Ive just decided to sell the S2000 and get a cheaper DD and focus on finishing my 3rotor FD. The cayman S is capable, with its dry sump and other track focused gear, but I just couldnt justify the price. You can pick up a late 90s Viper GTS with low miles for the price of a slightly used caymanS (which Ive also been kicking around.) Just my opinion, but the FD is much more fun to drive.

Interesting, because you just said the CS is a blast to drive - too refined/sanitized?

On a more philosophical note: do we as FD owners envy Porsches? I've heard this accusation made in other circles.

That's what I'm struggling with, a used one is more reasonable, of course. There is a guy in my neighborhood with an '09 Cayman S...we've done a little run and gun a few times, and the car is certainly no slouch. I can't believe any 300 rwhp FD would "walk all over" one.

Thanks for not banning me for the 28th time, Rich ;)

Having Sex with a virgin is a nice experience......

But having sex with a woman who has experience is much better.....


I would take the FD to a track day any time.... especially since im assuming you've tracked it for quite a while and have modded it to reflect that.

a Porsche? Not so much..... i have this fear of driving cars with the engine being behind me.....
i've driven NSX's, MR-2 turbos, heavily modded beetles and an old 911 turbo..... those are scary for me....but take that with a grain of salt.

Anything short of a GT3 and I'm keeping my 7.

Do I envy Porsches? I DO envy the great club, the corales at every racing event I go to, the tons of great mods and set up expertise for them... all that stuff is great. You'll be lucky if you SEE another FD at any given car/track event, and half the stuff being made for them (or not) is by unreliable wannabe businesses, it's hard to find people with real expertise to work on them, let alone quality set up advice, etc.

I can only speak for myself---- No.


Street =/= Track.

993tt
 

Hey I'm right there with you on the 993/996 TT but from everything I've ever seen (I'm always looking at the 993TT), it's not often you see a used 993TT (unless it's high mileage) for as cheap as a Cayman S.

The 993TT has done a good job holding it's value.

Now you can get into the 996TT all day long for the price of a Cayman S and that thing is a BEAST in stock form.

I don't even know why the Viper is in this conversation, besides it's magazine times it's a much different car than anything else being discussed in here. Owning both a turbo Porsche and an FD is another financial move that would be hard to justify because of upkeep.

You've got to ask yourself... do I want/need this so bad that I would go into debt for it? This isn't the time to pile on debt without really good justification... If you want another car in that price range, sell the FD and the s2000. Get an older shitbox and buy the Cayman/993 Turbo/Viper/whatever.

I remember my grandfather talking me out of owning two Rx-7's and an Infiniti (none of which are worth anywhere near a new Cayman) at the same time. He was so right.

Hell no. I hate porches. The carrera GT is just about the only one I like. Also this one...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_959

Never been a fan of Porsches personally. I think they're pretty ugly, bland & as common as they come. However...If you throw Rauh Welt into the equation....Then I love Porsches ;)

I stand corrected...I've been looking in ALL the wrong places. A friend of mine that is Porsche freak showed me that they can be had for the 60-70k range.

Sorry for jacking your thread :/

They did address the 996 issues after the first two years. ;) I don't know that I would call them ugly, but the Porsche purists did hate the headlight change. :)

Mark, you might also look into a mid-2000's 996 GT3. When they do pop up, they are in the same price range as a newer Cayman S. Most of them aren't as stripped out as one might expect (as the original owners rarely bought them to be pure track cars). Those versions would be great for both street and track.

996 are only ugly in their base/c2 form. The turbo, c4 and gt2 996 are a far stretch from being ugly IMO...
http://www.supercarworld.com/images/fullpics/181b.jpg

http://ll.speedhunters.com/u/f/eagam...i/IMG_9109.jpg

:drool:

Not a bad idea. What does a used 997 GT3 go for?

It seems to be a natural progression from an S2000. Quite a few former S owners on s2ki have "upgraded". As far as I know the Cayman has a very solid reliability record.

They are typically in the 80-90k range. I spied two for sale currently, both at $85k.

I don't think I could ever own a Cayman. It just screams "I've got a Porsche but I couldn't afford a 911" Despite its capability it's like owning a C230 Benz in that way.

I just don't see the appeal. The looks are still, well, hardtop Boxster. They're not fast enough in the straight line to beat up on a lot of modern cars. Yeah they handle well but you can get a lot of other newer cars that handle pretty close or even handle better (Elise etc). They not cheap cars yet they don't fully have the status symbol aspect going for them. Imagine the conversations:


Meanwhile you've got 370Z's (or whatever much cheaper car would be in your class) hanging with you, although not necessarily beating you, on the track. And modded cars are still blowing your doors off.

All this for how much money???

I know, they aren't cheap. Used GT3 would probably make more sense.

Ah you're seeing the light! No complaints about a GT3, as long as you can make it work financially.

Around here, 993s dominate the tracks. That being said, I like having the only rotary out there--and an FB at that. I still run with and sometimes pass the big dogs (granted I have 332whp ;) ).

Dollar for dollar, modifying and maintaining an FD will always be cheaper than a Porsche. My basically stock FD was much faster than a Cayman on my local track. Therefore I conclude that financially and performance-wise, it makes no sense to switch cars. But then again, the decision to buy a certain car is not always a rational one to begin with :)

For sake of discussion, a new caymanS has a base price of $61,500 according to Porsche with 320hp @ 7200rpm and 0 to 60 in 4.9.

Here's the one I'm looking at
http://hendrick.porschedealer.com/20...17310/info.php

overpriced 370Z in terms of performance

I don't agree with the others putting down the Cayman. If you compare it to a 370z it will look overpriced and if you compare it to a used 993 it looks slow. It is. I think it's a great compromise with the build, looks, performance of a Porsche.

Do you plan on modding this car, or are you going to buy it based on the out-of-the-box experience?

David

That comment is made by people who are ignorant about FD's. A few years back a buddy and I test drove a 2004 996 Turbo all wheel drive, 450 HP. The salesman really let us (yes both of us)get on it. Red lining every gear, taking hard corners, going 130 MPH on the freeway...

They were asking 160K for it. My verdict: I was disappointed-- the car felt slightly faster than my stock twin modded FD, and it didn't outhandle it weither (I only have coilovers). After the test drive I expressed this to my buddy (he was the one car shopping) and of course he didn't quite believe me. So we opted to go to my house and so he could take the FD for a drive. His verdict: "I'll be dammed you are right... It really isn't that much better".

Since then I have upgraded to a GT35R T3 with a short short manifold (quick spool) and there is no way that porsche would keep up with me now.


I think it's great looking car. The one we test drove was just like that one, it was even black. Simply gorgeous

The Cayman S really has nothing in common with a 370Z other than similar power levels.

No, I would keep it stock (reliable)

Been looking at 993 turbo's for awhile... you hardly ever see them below 50

Caymans and boxsters have some engine issues when tracked or run hard. I can't remember the details but they do blow up fairly often.

Go air cooled 911 or gt3 :icon_tup:

I don't know if you saw this article (http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ng_lap-feature) but I'd be way more confindent in tracking a Porsche over a 370Z after seeing this article unless it had the necessary brake upgrades

Cayman S is for men having a midlife crisis who drove a hybrid or corolla on their commute for the past 20-30 years. GT3's appear more track oriented.

Although I would love to see what the Cayenne Turbo S (http://www.porsche.com/microsite/cay...rbo-s/usa.aspx) is capable of...
http://www.beddysblog.com/images/Cay...mb-500x375.jpg

I saw one in a parking lot once, it was beautiful and the brakes were massive!

I've seen that article. I wasn't seriously saying he should get a 370Z. I'm sure Nissan will work out whatever the problems are (oil cooler, brakes, whatever) in a model year or two. Maybe I shouldn't have even brought up the 370.

The Cayman S is so much money for so little. Hell used C6 Z06's are going for under 50k now. My neighbor had one and they are nasty, plus the interior isn't bad at all. Hendrick Chevrolet in Cary NC has a bunch of C6 Z06's on the lot last I checked and I bet at least one is used.

I don't hate Porsches, more fond of everything 96 and earlier but I think yhey are very popular for good reason. Once you take out all the popularity they get from the people that want them for status or because it seems like good choice for a sports car in that price range though they don't intend to drive it like a sports car.

On the practical side of things you do stand to lose a lot on depreciation. I also think a tracked car is going to take a much bigger hit when you sell it.

I have heard the same thing about the boxter/cayman engine that Fritz mentioned and I have never been to a track day so maybe it's common knowledge. I've heard the same about the early E46 M3s and S2000s. Maybe it's not that big of a deal, turbo rotaries pop too.

I guess it all comes down to money and if you have it to spend than a lot of the concerns and comparisons to other cheaper cars may not matter to you. I could never track a car that cost very much or that was fairly new.

The Cayman will be a nice safe and solid car. It will have great materials and fit & finish compared to a lot other cars on the track.

Why not just get something less modern and more easily worked on by yourself.