^^^

It's not a cost-based assessment, and anyway, I don't think PCA annual membership is THAT much. Of course you need to own a Porsche, but you don't need to buy a $150k GT3 RS to do it.

It's more than a "gentlemen's club". It's a great enthusiasts car community with lots of activities, info, and such that enhance the ownership experience of the car. This car, much as I love it, actually suffers in the opposite direction, and I speak from much experience here.

So do the P club guys look down their nose at your lowly FD? :) If you can run with a 100k GT3, that has to put a big smile on your face, but it seems like you would need closer to 400 rwhp to do it. One of the old track guys from VIR I talked to several years ago told me the FD didn't develop enough torque to pull hard out of the corners and hang with a GT3. A three rotor definitely would, though. In my opinion, a three rotor conversion with mild boost (say 12 psi) would be stone reliable and a serious track contender.

I'm sure some do... I don't worry about that too much though.

I don't really notice that problem so much—and I think it's because my car is a '99 twin turbo.

Well, that goes without question.

For me, the only FI car I would consider purchasing for a track toy would be an Exige. My concern with the Exige is that it's not really something you can drive around town and I'm not sure I want another non-fun street car. For the most part, I'm not putting another FI car on the track. Just too many extra issues.


You can turn a 90's Mustang into a track monster if you put the effort into it (and I've seen plenty). It just depends on what you like doing: driving or tinkering.

For the past four years, I have instructed with three different PCA clubs, and those that are track junkies, have never looked down at me, and go out of their way to make sure I come.

I have heard of very "snotty" chapters, and these are coming from PCA instructors who have Porsches. And these "snots" had no discipline or courtesy whatsoever, and really pissed off the real track junkies/instructors, as many of them were in new GT3 RS' and GT2's just trying to show who has the biggest *ick . . .

It really is a good club though . . .

:-) neil

I've only done autox events with PCA, no track days (yet).

I have to agree, it's a good club. There might be some folks with the snotty attitude, but in my experience that is uncommon.

The local PCA groups welcomes us. As half of the entrants are NP (non-Porsche) we help them make the events possible - it would be tough financially if it were Porsche only.

I think part of the issue behind that is that there are so few FDs and the other RX7s in general are very old plus there certainly is no central, well organized, organized, cross-model Mazda enthusiast group like the PCA or BMW CCA.

The Miata guys have a similar community to the Porsche guys from what I can tell. They do Miata specific events around the country regularly, there are plenty of Miatas at every track day and autox that I attend, they organize their own Corral at the Monterey historics etc.

The other part of it is the current average age of ownership. Most people are dancing around the issue so I'll put it out there. For FD owners who have been here for 7+ years, the scene has changed. Those owners, most likely don't really care to do the same type of "events" as the current crop of owners.

In my area, it's been years since there have been more than 2 FD's at the track at the same time:

http://mahjik.homestead.com/files/FD...k1/image01.jpg

Most those owners from that track day have moved on. The car is cheaper and the demographic purchasing the car today is a lot different than it was 10 years ago. To some, that's important if they want to hang out with "like minded people".

There are some rotary gatherings in my area each year (mainly FC's). To be honest, I haven't had the desire to go to any of them as it's just an entirely different crowd. Would I have a better time with a BMW or Porsche crowd? Yes. I will say the Audi crowd is odd.. :p:

^ "Big" is all relative. An FD is "big" compared to an Elise. You just have to get used to the Corvettes.

Sure, but you'll find that in many social groups or clubs. It's just part of life. Other non-car clubs that I've been involved in over the past 6-7 years have gone through the same thing.

To me, the Elise is just too small and the corvette is too big. I don't think that's something to get used to at all. They just aren't right for me.



Except with Porsche club, and that's the point.

I've also heard the Elise/Exige isn't exactly safe if you happen to crash.

RX-7 because:

1) If you crash it, the financial loss is much lower. Maybe you're well-off so you don't care.

2) For any given total spend, the FD will pulverize the Cayman. Nowadays, you can buy nice single turbo FDs for 15-20k easily. You can't get much of a Cayman for that.

The entire tub is designed as a roll/crash system as well as an integral roll bar. They aren't going to do as well as some large 1970's Lincoln in a head-on collision, but they are just as good (if not better) than any small roadster today.

http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elis...ogy/elis10.jpg

I can't imagine the RX-7 doing really well in a crash although I don't know for certain.

But isn't it true that if the car is involved in a relatively minor crash the chassis can be essentially junk?

I still say Noble made the best track car.

With a full roll cage you should be in good shape, I wouldn't track a car without one

I would say that any crash which involves chassis damage is not minor, no matter what the car. ;) Pretty much any car you damage the chassis, insurance is going to write it off. Now, how easy it is to repair chassis damage something else (i.e. it's probably not quite as straight forward as most cars, but definitely possible). Personally, if I damage the chassis of any car, I don't want it back.

Dont have a welder?

Historically the FD chassis has done a pretty good job of protecting it's driver, many years ago when it was still fairly new there were some pretty nasty high speed accidents and in most cases the driver walked away from a crash you'd of thought would have killed him.

Another thing we'll disagree on, I guess I must have balls of steel :lol:

That is nice to know.

I wish there were a way to get a little more protection without having to tear the interior up and weld in a rollcage. I don't track my car but I still would like it to be a little safer in case I ever slide into a tree.

I meant as a dedicated track car, not a profiler with a roof cam ;)

fuck Porsche! buy a 4 rotor from pulse performance and call it a day

I tracked for many years with no roll bar or safety equipment, and looking back I must've been nuts. I wouldn't say you have to "tear up" the inside w/ a 6-point cage and door bars, but a good 4 point bolt-in roll bar is a must IMO... 5 point harnesses as well. It's not hard to see 140 mph+ on course with even a stock FD, and at that speed (or less) if something happens, like a breakage (in a 18 year old car), bad things can happen.

Without a helmet and/or a 4 point harness a roll cage can be your worst enemy. Even if its padded. Just something to keep in mind

Then say what you mean, 'i wouldn't track a car without one' is different from 'all dedicated full track cars should have a cage' :blush: :lol: