320 rwhp FD vs. 2010 Porsche Cayman S
07-07-10, 03:28 PM
#101
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Cage adds much needed rigidity to that flimsy FD chassis as well 
RX-8s reportedly have double an FDs rating; three rotor RX-8s fare quite well on the track, if you can get past the fugly looks.
RX-8s reportedly have double an FDs rating; three rotor RX-8s fare quite well on the track, if you can get past the fugly looks.
07-07-10, 03:38 PM
#103
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Excellent thread! I'm a former 924 turbo and 924S owner-autocrossser, and I was lucky enough to find a salesman foolish enough to let me take a Cayman S on a test drive once. The chassis is utterly brilliant, and the general platform of the Cayman S(mid-engine-longitudinally-mounted-normally-aspirated-flat-6-two-seater-coupe-with-luggage-space) is the ideal dual-purpose sports car for me. There's also rumors of a lightweight clubsport version in the works.
In 2009, the revised Cayman S received the new 9A1 engine, which has been far more durable/reliable than the previous M96 engine with its intermediate-shaft failures, oil ingestion issues, rear-main-seal leaks. So far, the 9A1 has held up very well at the track. That being said, $70 G's for a 320HP sports car is ridiculous.
My issues with the Cayman S have more to do with Porsche's marketing department than anything else. I hate how they hamstring the Cayman S with the 3.4L to preserve the 911's status. Porsche could easily offer the 385 HP 3.8L from the Carrera S; the engine dimensions are the same. 20% more power, almost zero extra weight, minimal additional manufacturing costs, seems like a no-brainer to this engineer, but what do I know? It's not my job to milk 911 buyers for all they're worth.
Dear Porsche, I'd happily take out a big fat note to own a 3.8L, lightweight Cayman RS-clubsport-whatever-you-want-to-call-it. I'd even pay 911 prices, and you could keep the PDK, PASM, and PCCB (that's double-clutch transmission, active suspension, and ceramic brakes in Porsche-speak).
In 2009, the revised Cayman S received the new 9A1 engine, which has been far more durable/reliable than the previous M96 engine with its intermediate-shaft failures, oil ingestion issues, rear-main-seal leaks. So far, the 9A1 has held up very well at the track. That being said, $70 G's for a 320HP sports car is ridiculous.
My issues with the Cayman S have more to do with Porsche's marketing department than anything else. I hate how they hamstring the Cayman S with the 3.4L to preserve the 911's status. Porsche could easily offer the 385 HP 3.8L from the Carrera S; the engine dimensions are the same. 20% more power, almost zero extra weight, minimal additional manufacturing costs, seems like a no-brainer to this engineer, but what do I know? It's not my job to milk 911 buyers for all they're worth.
Dear Porsche, I'd happily take out a big fat note to own a 3.8L, lightweight Cayman RS-clubsport-whatever-you-want-to-call-it. I'd even pay 911 prices, and you could keep the PDK, PASM, and PCCB (that's double-clutch transmission, active suspension, and ceramic brakes in Porsche-speak).
07-07-10, 04:04 PM
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Great post, thanks. If Porsche offered a "clubsport" Cayman with the 3.8 for about $60k it would sell extremely well. No way I would even consider a vette at that point.
Would I miss the squeaks and rattles of the ol FD? I doubt it....
Would I miss the squeaks and rattles of the ol FD? I doubt it....
07-07-10, 04:09 PM
#105
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I would say that any crash which involves chassis damage is not minor, no matter what the car. 
Pretty much any car you damage the chassis, insurance is going to write it off. Now, how easy it is to repair chassis damage something else (i.e. it's probably not quite as straight forward as most cars, but definitely possible). Personally, if I damage the chassis of any car, I don't want it back.
Pretty much any car you damage the chassis, insurance is going to write it off. Now, how easy it is to repair chassis damage something else (i.e. it's probably not quite as straight forward as most cars, but definitely possible). Personally, if I damage the chassis of any car, I don't want it back.
07-07-10, 04:30 PM
#106
Just wait and pick up a used 2009 Cayman if that's what you like (outside the price tag). As they always say, you have to pay to play. Most Porsche owners thing the amount of money they spend getting a Porsche is worth it. I don't know, I don't own one (yet).
However, they do hold decent value over the years, but they loose quite a bit on the first year so just wait it out for a used one.
07-07-10, 05:45 PM
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^ from the above link (regarding the Grand Sport)
There’s always room for improvement, especially in the interior. Our test car came with the $7705 LT4 package, which features a leather-covered dash. But the discount-store aspect remains. We’ve complained for years about the Corvette’s cut-rate seats, which feel like they’ve been padded with dead squirrels. They still disappoint. Why the Grand Sport—which adds a Z06-style body kit, a dry-sump oil system, and a performance suspension—doesn’t come with upgraded seats (nor do the more raucous Z06 and ZR1 models) remains a mystery. Unless it’s just about the money, or that the Vette’s well-padded clientele would complain about a tighter fit. We have one word for them: Nutrisystem.
07-07-10, 07:05 PM
#108
This actually reminds me of many of the V8 vs. rotary argument threads in the sense that a car is more than the sum of it's empirical performance characteristics... if it weren't, a Caymen is a rip-off. There's a lot more that goes in to feeling good about the purchase price that varies depending on your values. There's the prestige, heritage, the club, how you perceive the car as a reflection of you, the amount of mods and set up advice available, etc.
Only you can decide the value of those things.
Only you can decide the value of those things.
07-07-10, 11:50 PM
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What's astonishing is that an 18 year old, $32k Japanese sports car with a few bolt-ons can hang with - and beat - a $70k 2010 sports car from Porsche that has many more years of development. Speaks to the overall sound design of the FD, despite it's flaws. Is the balance/handling of the Cayman superior to an FD? Only a track expert could answer that question, but my bet it's very close, if both cars are set-up right.
That's why we love these cars, despite the PITA factor at times.
That's why we love these cars, despite the PITA factor at times.
07-08-10, 01:42 PM
#111
A mid-engine car is always going to be a little easier to get around the track than a front or rear engine car. This is part of the reason they don't create a GT3 or an "out of the box" track prepped version of the Cayman as that would remove the 911 from being their flagship car.
07-10-10, 01:39 PM
#115
), they are extremely well behaved even when the nut behind the wheel isn't.That's doesn't mean they are better cars per say. People love the 911 but also claim it's one of the more difficult cars to tame on the track.
07-10-10, 08:52 PM
#117
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The NSX is a fantastic handling car, no question
Originally Posted by gmonsen
While all of them get around the track better than a front-engined car, I would guess that I think the rear mid-engine is better coming out of the turns by a hair than the front mid-engined.
07-11-10, 12:00 AM
#118
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The Cayman is a good car, but expensive to modify and to maintain/repair if you bang it up.
Someone mentioned an aircooled Porsche as an option. I bought a '91 Turbo about a year ago and love it. Taking the car out on the track, though, would mean me getting comfortable with a mild engine rebuild costing more than the purchase price of an entire sorted, track-prepped FD. No thanks.
Outside of those options, for a track car I'd personally consider a C5 vette or a turbo miata. Good aftermarket support... and lets you keep repair costs to a minimum!
Best,
John
07-11-10, 02:31 AM
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"Track weapon" between those two - I'd go with the FD and I would keep the engine modifications simple and straightforward. Remove as much weight as possible.
The Cayman is a good car, but expensive to modify and to maintain/repair if you bang it up.
Someone mentioned an aircooled Porsche as an option. I bought a '91 Turbo about a year ago and love it. Taking the car out on the track, though, would mean me getting comfortable with a mild engine rebuild costing more than the purchase price of an entire sorted, track-prepped FD. No thanks.
Outside of those options, for a track car I'd personally consider a C5 vette or a turbo miata. Good aftermarket support... and lets you keep repair costs to a minimum!
Best,
John
The Cayman is a good car, but expensive to modify and to maintain/repair if you bang it up.
Someone mentioned an aircooled Porsche as an option. I bought a '91 Turbo about a year ago and love it. Taking the car out on the track, though, would mean me getting comfortable with a mild engine rebuild costing more than the purchase price of an entire sorted, track-prepped FD. No thanks.
Outside of those options, for a track car I'd personally consider a C5 vette or a turbo miata. Good aftermarket support... and lets you keep repair costs to a minimum!
Best,
John
07-11-10, 02:54 PM
#122
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Hm... My SCCA experience would say something in the chassis class of something like an M3...
The E46 is a great car, light, nimble, agile, not a pig, nowhere NEAR the cost of the 99x and at the end of the day, it's still a Bimmer.
The E46 is a great car, light, nimble, agile, not a pig, nowhere NEAR the cost of the 99x and at the end of the day, it's still a Bimmer.
07-11-10, 03:29 PM
#123
Insurance of any "newer sports car" is going to be more expensive than a "15-17 year old sports car".
If you are looking for costs justifications, you probably aren't going to find any. Unless you are talking about a 15 year old Ferrari, it's almost always cheaper to own a 15 year old car than buying a 0-1 year old car (up front costs). However, add up how much you have spent on your FD over the years and then take a look at what owners of the cars you are looking at (Porsche owners in this case) spend over the similar amounts of time with similar cars. I looked at the money I've spent on my FD and I would have been better off financially in the long run with the E36 M3 I was looking at all those years ago. The FD was more affordable at the time, but in hindsight the E36 M3 was probably the better deal.
If you are looking for costs justifications, you probably aren't going to find any. Unless you are talking about a 15 year old Ferrari, it's almost always cheaper to own a 15 year old car than buying a 0-1 year old car (up front costs). However, add up how much you have spent on your FD over the years and then take a look at what owners of the cars you are looking at (Porsche owners in this case) spend over the similar amounts of time with similar cars. I looked at the money I've spent on my FD and I would have been better off financially in the long run with the E36 M3 I was looking at all those years ago. The FD was more affordable at the time, but in hindsight the E36 M3 was probably the better deal.
07-11-10, 04:42 PM
#124
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