TK7

iTrader: (6)

How does one tell if the restrictor pills are built into the nipples? The reason i ask... Just bought FD, about 2000k on mazda reman, and new turbo assembly, both performed by a dealer. Car runs great. It brought me from st louis to st augustine without issue.
problem though, low primary (6-7 psi), and no secondary. At 4500rpm i see maybe 3 psi, but only for a split second, and then 0 all the till redline. Ive been using this guide http://www.autosportracetech.com/RX-...leshooting.htm

since the turbos are essentially new and installed by a dealer i immediatly went for the restrictor pills. I found nothing in either hose, so how do i know if they are in the nipples? I gently used a small screw driver to see how far back it would go into the nipple, and it seems to go completly through the nipple part and then stops inside the "T" section, but it doesnt look like it goes all the way to the back of the "T". I went ahead and did the home depot restrcitor/manual boost mod yesterday. same results? didnt fix anything.

Ive checked almost everything in that guide. and im not sure what else to do? keep in mind, i dont think the sequential system has ever worked properly since new engine and turbos. oh, is it also true you cant replace one turbo? My receipt says tubo assembly, so i assume it means both? it cost the guy $3500, i hope its both!
Im going to continue searching, but anything would be helpful. sorry for another boost issue thread. lol

Copeland

iTrader: (42)

Turbo assembly = both turbos and the conjoining exhaust housing.
The restrictor pills are not actually inside of the nipple but instead inside of the vacuum lines as a little piece of metal very visible in the small length vacuum line.

TK7

iTrader: (6)

^ well, the guides i have been reading say if you have "newer" turbos, the restrictors are moved into the nipple itself. Im just wondering how to tell if i have such "newer" turbos? and if so, where are the restrictors actually located.
I have checked out a few more things on the guide since i made the first post, and still.....eveything is checking out fine?

DigDug

Get a 1/8" drill bit and slide it in there. If it goes all the way to the back, there's no restrictor. If it stops short, there is a restrictor. You can also see the restrictor if you look in there - it's just blocked where it meets the main tube, with a small aperture in the center. Some newer factory turbos have them, some don't. Both nipples will have them and they're different sizes (as are the pills if you have those).

BTW, you normally get low boost (6-7 psi like you mentioned) when you remove the restrictors, not when they're present. In other words, having them results in HIGHER boost in a working system. No secondary boost is another issue entirely. Time to check those solenoids and actuators. This stuff isn't hard, it's just tedious.

TK7

iTrader: (6)

if they are RIGHT at where the nipple meets the main tube, then i suspect my turbos have them. Cause like i said, my screw driver went all the way in, and seemed to stop just short of the back in "t" part. hmmm, so i probably did the home depot thing for no reason! lol.

whats a good way to check solenoids outside of whats described in that guide link? can i use an ohm meter, and how would i do so?

TK7

iTrader: (6)

ok, i tested the check vales, well, the ones i could see without taking much apart. Stupid question, but should they make a high pitched whistle when you blow thru them?

i also found a solenoid nipple has broke off in the hose itself. i beleie its the first(towards the front of the car) in the solenoid rack, under the rats nest. gonna have to rig up somehting there.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

That broken solenoid nipple definitely needs fixed.

Yes, check valves will whistle - it's normal. They don't need to flow lots of air, mostly they need to seal properly.

Dave

saeedm

That same one broke on my car yesterday when I was checking my vacuum lines (2nd turbo doesn't boost). After looking in ACE Hardware for about half an hour I found something to fix it...a little metal hollow rod and some epoxy. After a pressure test it looked like it was going to hold fine...which was a relief since new ones are ~50-80$.

TK7

iTrader: (6)

^ yeah. I broke all four plastic nipple from the solenoids on the mainfold. I just used 3/16 copper tubing, and it seems to be holding fine.

i tore it apart tonight and my biggest issue of the moment is getting the stupid solenoid rack screws to let go. man theyre tough, im really afraind im going to strip them. I gave up for tonight, and im letting liquid wrench set on them overnight.

Definitly let me know what you find out about your second turbo. Im still makin 5-6, maybe barely 7 psi on my primary, and then 0 on my secondary. and ive checked "almost" everything in the check lists i have found. Only thing i havnt done yet is the actuator arms during koko, cause i havnt had anyone around to help. and im in the process of replacing all the rats nest lines. i really cant wait to have the car fixed and running. Ive really enjoyed it only making 6 psi for the week ive owned it.....i cant imagine 10, and another turbo! lol. I just sold a 350z, and this 7 feels faster on 6psi than the Z ever did.

TK7

iTrader: (6)

OK! latest update. I replaced what lines i could without removing the solenoid rack(stripped the screws). I did EVERYTHING on the primary turbo trouble list....

a few days ago i watched the charge control actuator rod work as it should under idle. today i tried the koko test and i couldnt see ANY of the rods on ANY actuator move. although, today when i did the test i had the manifold off and a lot of things unglugged so that could be why.

so i put everything back togther. next i tried disconnecting what i believe to be the turbo control actuator hose(whichever the lowest actuator on the car is...had to crawl underneath to pull hose) I was under the impression that doing this would "bypass" some of the controls and cause overboosting. Took it for a drive, no difference at all.

So i got curious about my home depot boost control mod. im pretty sure my restrictor pills are actually in the nipples so i didnt know what it would do, but i cut the hoses open near the needle valve. theres plenty of slack so i can reconnect tomrw. took it for another drive. finally somehting changed. im now making about 8 psi on the primary and then maybe 4 psi at 4500rpm, then bleeds off very quickly to 0.

so thats pretty much all i know to do. I dont have much experience in any engine system, much less an rx7. and all of the knowledge i do have is strictly on paper. ive just read about anything rx7 related for the past few years. if theres anything else you guys can sugest, let me know. and if anyone close by would be willing to help i would really appreciate it. i could drive the car anywhere in my surrounding areas. Im in St augustine fl. and thanx for all the help provided so far.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

You need to reconnect your boost controller. If the air going from the turbos (thru the pills, if they exist) to the actuators, and out again MUST not have any leaks. Otherwise you'll disable the wastegate and precontrol actuators completely, and in a properly working system you will get major, instant overboost.

If you want to do something to really test if your boost controller is the issue, just run a line directly from the Tee on the compressor to the actuator and cap off hte other actuator nipple. That should produce 8psi all the way across.

Regarding the KOKO test, you should first test for vacuum and pressure, then run the car again and this time test for actuator motion. Key on, go look at the actuators. Key off, now look again. If you're getting no motion at all then you probably have no stored vacuum due to a vacuum leak. Study that diagram closely and trace every line that connects to the vacuum chamber to try to find the leak. Now would be a great time for a vacuum pump (mityvac).

Dave

TK7

iTrader: (6)

Good news! very excited. still have a problem somehwere but very happy for the moment. I vented my BOV to see if i like it that way. All i got wash a noisy,aggravating high air flow sound.....all the time under boost, not when shifting? hmm ...i thought....sounds like its not holding pressure. So my friend and i tried tapeing it. HA, that didnt work obvisouly. So we started thinking what we had lying around that we could use to plug it. he says, "hey, what about my boat(note:not butt) plug" so i said lets try it. it was a perfect fit! lol.

so we go back out for a test run. He's driving, im holding my boost gauge i hvnt had time to mount yet. "ok, punch it" .....sweet Jesus everet! "STOP!!" i got 15-17 PSI!!!! he goes whats wrong, shifts and floors it again(all withing about 4 seconds) 15-17 PSI!! "FRICKIN STOP!" lol.

Soooo.... i fixed something! we pulled over and i adjusted my home depot boost controller back down to recommended settings(had them wide open, just trying to get something to give me more than 7 psi.....but now that i read about it again, having them wide open should have made less boost, not more, so i dont know what happend) a couple of turns..... perfect 10 psi! i was soo happy i couldve cried!

however, im not completly in the clear. Its obvious my stock BOV was just dumping air in large amounts into the airbox, fixed that. But now im still having my secondary trouble. Now when i reach 4500rpms, boost drops to about 4-5 and holds there for maybe a second, and then it continues to bleed off to 0. so it would appear i have fixed my primary leak, as it is now capable of 16 psi! but ive not isolated, a possibly unrelated ,secondary problem.

With this new info, any suggestions?(besides never letting your friend hit 17 psi!)

saeedm

haha great job figuring that out! and about your second problem: I had that one too; my boost would work great up to 4.5k and then trail off from there just like you described it. It turned out to be a a bad solenoid and I think one unplugged tube. I'm gonna ask my dad the details (he's the mechanic) and if you wanna know just tell me.

cscsnoise

i have the same identical prob on my secondary. my mechanic thinks its either bad solenoids or a bad computer. hes broken down the turbos twice already and there fine. since im getting 2 hallman rx manual boost controllers in the mail pretty soon im going to bypass the solenoids that connect to the actuators. i hear that computers hardly ever go bad so im hoping the solenoids are the issue. ill post when i put those controllers in. im thinking its your solenoids.

saeedm

TK7:
Got your pm and thought it would be better if I posted a response here...maybe help you out and possibly the forum! I actually owe it to a couple of members who helped me out with my post about a similar problem, heres the link:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/i-need-lecture-boost-688819/
Look down at where jmadams74 responded. Thats what I followed, and it turned out Adams knew what he was talking about Make use of that great diagram posted right before if you don't already have it...The solenoid labeled H (charge relief) turned out to be bad. As for the loose tube I can't say exactly which one it was, I just know it was somewhere near the front...But it shouldn't matter being something so specific and probably unique to my case. Good luck, and easy on the second turbo once its starts whirling again, especially if its been off duty for a long time

TK7

iTrader: (6)

^ thanx for the info!

Ok. the first thing on the list of secondary leaks is the CRV. So i vented it to atmosphere, just as i had the ABV, to listen for trouble.

Test Drive.

primary operates good...4500rpm, boost drops to about 5 psi, almost instantly after that, i hear the same high air flow noise as i did with the defective ABV. The exact moment i hear this noise, boost quickly drops to 0psi. GREAT i think!! i can just buy another boat plug to test the CRV. I go to wally world and grab one. Plug the CRV in the parking lot and drive off to test. No change it still drops to about 5, and then quickly down to zero.

Tomorrow i will have some time for myself and a mechanic i know to look over the car. Im going to bring all of the diagrams and troubleshooting guides i have, and see what we can find!.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Trace the line from the charge relief valve to its solenoid and make sure there are no leaks.

Also make sure the hoses to the charge control valve aren't leaking - just a pinch can cause a boost-robbing leak.

If all that is good then you should consider replacing the charge relief solenoid.

Dave

TK7

iTrader: (6)

ok, ive been working a lot, so not much time for the car. I finally had time,( and was able to convince my wife to help me) to do the KOKO test.

i just replaced my check valves(well, 3 of them. whats the 4th?) and during this i heard the vacuum tank suck in air as i popped off the check valve under the UIM near the firewall. Is that correct? i also heard the pressure tank release air, so those 2 check out.

Just did the KOKO, and my charge control actuator works everytime. BUT the turbo control never moves? so i think i may have found my problem. Now i need your advice as to isolate it further. I assume there are other things that need to work to cause the actuator to move, therefore it may not be my actuator itself. I havent seen this mentioned in any of the guides ive read, so please fill me in. I CANT WAIT to fix this problem. From everything ive read, ill probably feel like i upd 30 HP!

jmadams74

Either your turbo control actuator is not working -- you can test it with a mighty vac (instructions are posted in the forum somewhere); or one or both of your tubo control solenoids aren't working properly (more likely). On transition from primary to secondary, the turbo control actuator is moved by supplying vacuum to one side (controlled by one of the turbo control solenoids) of the diaphram in the actuator, and at the same time applying pressure to the other side (controlled by the other turbo control solenoid). Also, make sure all your hoses are correct (see the many diagrams posted herein). If you can "t" into the lines to the tca with a vacuum/pressure gauge, you should see pressure on the pressure side when you hit about 4500 RPM and vacuum on the vacuum side at the same RPM as both solenoids get a common signal from the ECU (fyi--this transition RPM is programmable with the Apexi PFC and is a terrific function that not many use to fine tune their transition) Hope this helps.
--Jeff

TK7

iTrader: (6)

if i bypassed the solenoids(both of them), and used some longer vacuum hose to connect straight to the actuator, would i see any results? i guess it would make it operate at any RPM, instead of 4500 where its supposed to.

TK7

iTrader: (6)

oh! another detail that might be important. The turbo control actuator is stuck in what i think is the OPEN position(rod out,not in) ????shouldnt i be making SOME boost at some point then?

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

The closed position for the TCA is rod out. At 4500, both turbo control solenoids pass thru pressure and vacuum and draw the rod in, opening the exhaust flow to the secondary turbine.

First check the simple: make sure the lines aren't crossed. If you can get a vacuum pump (Autozone even rents them) connect it to the nipple on the front end of the TCA and see if vacuum will cause it to open. If that's ok, consider buckling down and buy new turbo control solenoids. There is one on the ACV and one in the rats nest. Even if these aren't purely the source they don't last as long as the others and IMO they're worth replacing.

Another thing to consider is running the hose from each end of the TCA directly to your boost gauge. At 4500 you should see either full vacuum (>20inHg) or full pressure (10psi). If you get this the turbo control solenoids are working.

Dave

TK7

iTrader: (6)

I really appreciate the info! i may run to autozone right now! lol. Oh, i got curious(dangerous i know) and just left off both the pressure and vacuum lines and went for a drive.

now i make a steady 5 psi alomst to redline. before it quickly bled off to 0. Im glad to hear that the actuator is probably closed, as that makes a lot more sense for my symptoms than it being open.

So with the lines off....is that 5 PSI i see, from just the primary?

TK7

iTrader: (6)

went to autozone and advance, neither place even knew what a mityvac was. soooo, i went home and drug my mini air compressor under with me. hooked up a line to the pressure side of the actuator and it moved! i doubt its moved in quite some time, so i sprayed some liquid wrench on it and applied pressure to it, on and off a few times.

so, now i pretty much know its either the vacuum or the pressure solenoid...or actually both. because even if only one of them works, the actuator should still function, just slower, correct?

so i looped the vacuum pipes in the rats nest together, bypassing the vacuum solenoid. and borrowed a line from my temp plugged ABV and connected it directly to the pipe leading to the pressure side, bypassing the pressure solenoid. went for a drive.......now NO boost at any RPM obvisouly i dont completly understand the entire system, as it would seem i disabled something completly.

but anyway. its late and ive given up tonight. Im really hoping and praying that just simply replacing both turbo control solenoids will fix me! please let me know, if you guys have another idea or some input.

TK7

iTrader: (6)

I went down to install my new(used) bov i just bought. I took the vacuum hose diagram with me. Just popped the old one off and on with the new.

test drive....no change!? loud hissing at all RPM under throttle? so i went back. Started questioning whether my BOV was ever actually faulty? Took out the diagram and started looking around.....and i found some hoses in odd places. To be honest, i dont remember which ones i found, or where they were going, cause im WAYYY to excited right now. But i spent about 20 mintues looking at the diagram and moving 2 hoses.

hop in the car for a drive. As i pull away from the house under very light throttle i hear a slight hissing sound. "great" i thought, "i havnt fixed anything". Actually, i even looked at my wife and said "man, i was kinda hoping i had actually done something".......

Get out to the main road, shift to 2nd, gun it, .....Hiss STOPS!, 10 psi is reached......climbing......*magic moment* 4500RPM.....drops to about 5, then very quickly cilmbes real close if not actually 10 PSI!!!!! ........ I shift....PPPSSSSSHHHHH.... i scream and yell and celebrate as i shift to 3rd and hit it again. Same results!!!!!!!! I almost knocked my sunglasses out the sunroof in my celebration. lol.

I really think when the engine and turbos were replced from mazda a few years back, they just messed up. the diagram is REALLY tricky where they messed it up. I am so excited i really dont even know what to do! haha.


one last thing. i cant have a completly happy post...that would be out of character

went for a few more pulls where i could find room. Pulled over to adjust my home depot boost and prespool controllers, attempting to bring the dip closer to 8PSI.
made another pull, and it wouldnt quite hold 10 psi everywhere, Still made a lot more boost every RPM than it had been, but not like before i messed with it again. So i kept adjusting it and driving, and i never got it back completly. Ill research all of that tomorrow, as im sleepy.

Thanx everyone for all the help~! and ill update what i actually did to fix it in the morning!!!