showoff

sorry i disagree, every v8 fd i kno of is on rx7 club, just because they dont actively post doesn't meen there not around..i can say off hand just in the tri state, i kno of about 10-15 v8 fd's or so...and out of that bunch none are for sale... i understand what your trying 2say your number are just a little low....4-5v8 fd's forsale out of maybe 25-30 that lurk and prob another 10-15 or so that are in the process of swapping...but hey to"may"to tomato...if the market wasnt so good for v8 fd's maybe people would stop selling

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

Im a part of scotts mailing group too you know, theres NOT much v8 guys in the tri-state.

And i highly doubt theres already 45+ registered v8 FD's out there.

I would like some sort of proof to prove me wrong.

I do agree that there are many doing the switch over as we speak but im talking about registered running v8 FD's vs the amount of them being for sale.

That % will ALWAYS be higher than rotary FD's for sale vs registered running rotary FD's.

Which ever way you put it, theres always gonna be an LS swapped FD for sale in the FS section. And with the little amount there is VS actual rotary powered FD's, that says alot.

zenofspeed

iTrader: (1)

Funny you should say that. I got my Steve Kan tuned car and it was running 14-15mpg at 300whp (even if driven nice). I think Steve is a great tuner, but too conservative for my taste. He tunes so many, he probably just wants to ensure they don't melt and customers come back at him..

I re-tuned and now getting 18mpg with 10more whp. It was ridiculously rich at times.

djseven

iTrader: (56)

Unpossible Im just some guy who has heard about 23-25mpg fds, I personally have no experience so there is no need for me to present facts here on this forum It is funny how the V8 guys get as testy as the rotary guys when the rotary is being put down. It is just a car either way, I have driven v8 fds, and over 100 rotary powered fds. You guys can take my "opinions" for what they are worth, a good running full exhaust fd will get 25mpg if tuned correctly.

Gorilla RE

iTrader: (1)

Yeah what the heck do you know any way huh??
p.s. It's not "just a car" and I don't ever want to hear you say that again Mr. David.....GOT IT!?

-J

Gorilla RE

iTrader: (1)

"conservative" is NOT the word you're looking for......

-J

mdpalmer

iTrader: (24)

The MPG issue has a lot to do with

-driving style
-gear ratios
-average injector duty cycle (which has to do with engine RPM and hence gearing)
-how often the engine is run when it's cold
-average trip length
-and a million other things

I don't have my owner's manual on me, but I found a PDF off the web that has the FD gear ratios in it. Here's a website with C5 gear ratios.

The us spec FD has a 0.719:1 5th gear, the final drive ratio is 4.10:1. Total gear reduction is 0.719 x 4.10 = 2.948. The C5 has a 0.50 6th gear (thinking highway gas milage) and final drive ratio of 2.731. total redux is 1.366. Assuming the tire diameter of both car is the same (not sure how valid that is), your engine RPM in an FD in 5th gear will be almost two times that in the stock C5. That may translate to your injector duty will be 2x of what it will be in the C5--just to keep the car cruising at speed on the highway. Not sure how much fuel you're flowing in the C5 at that engine speed and stock injectors, etc., but in an FD, I've read of people running cruise maps pretty lean and getting that 25 mpg. And that's with the motor spinning 2x that of the V8. If someone wants to check these numbers and/or logic and prove me wrong, I'd love to hear what you have to say.

Just something to consider, it's not as simple as everyone likes to believe. It's not just the motor, there's other things going on.

djseven

iTrader: (56)

I understand completely, that is why I said a properly running fd will average that. However, a properly running fd is few and far between. Just because some has a pettit ecu or overly conservative PFC tune and gets 13-15mpg does not mean that is the norm for a correct setup.

djseven

iTrader: (56)

You know what I meant, people take it too seriously like whatever engine is an extension of their manhood.

Just for debate, has a IRS V8 Swap FD outperformed the fastest rotary powered IRS fd yet on a drag strip?

Gorilla RE

iTrader: (1)

I know I know.....

And the answer to your question is NO. Suckeers

-J

cozmo kraemer

I really hate the comparison of gas mileage of a rotary to gas mileage of an LS1. Every now and again you hear of a great MPG rotary, like the unicorn. Sure on the highway going from Phoenix to LA on the I-10 I could get 22-24mpg tuning the car to run in vacuum quite lean. But the tide turns against the rotary DRAMATICALLY in short hops. The rotary runs so rich on first startup, so around town, running errands or going on a short commute really drags down the MPG even on that same lean vacuum tune I used for the long trip...around town I was in the 14-16mpg range. Most rotary owners I know get around that when driving around town.

The LS1 is substantially cleaner from an emissions standpoint. It, on the whole, gets better gas mileage and is much more reliable at each power increment (a 400whp LS1 is almost completely stock, running through cats and emissions compliant). It is comparable from a size and weight perspective and doesn't compromise the RX7s wonderful chassis balance. In short it is a great fit.

I dont see why there is an argument? Those whom go LS1 seem pretty satisfied.

And for the person saying, 'dont put a v8 in our cars'

This is my car thank you, and if I want to burn it to the ground, I will. In your eyes it may just be one small notch better to put the LS1 in the fd.

Also, if there were only 50-100 v8 RX7s out there, Hinson would not be in business.

pinkrx7

iTrader: (2)

Lol dont get me wrong, I love rotaries and am still learning how to rebuild and all that. But to be fair the ls1 gets 27 highway at 400 hp. Emissions are low and the engine is stock. You can't argue with that.

alexdimen

iTrader: (13)

Just as i suspected, this turned into a factoid throwing ****-fest. It's sad that someone's opinion (based on experience) is responded to like an inflammatory statement. Some of you need to think about how statements sound before you type them.

There is no right answer. There is no better engine. There are too many real variables and personal preferences.

There are plenty of sports cars with engines that get touchy with age, but you don't see their owners at eachothers throats. Grow up.

djseven

iTrader: (56)

Well said but what fun would the forum be without this B.S

The only other car I would consider to own other than the fd that is in a reasonable price range is a c5. However, I realize it is superior to the fd in many ways and there is no need to take the engine from one of those to put in the fd. It doesnt bother me when people put v8s in fds unless they are white fds or R2s.

alexdimen

iTrader: (13)

No fun at all.

afterburn27

iTrader: (5)

You don't have to believe it. I made over 40 highway trips between Blacksburg, VA and Harrisonburg, VA and each run was over 25 mpg. I filled up before leaving each town. I saw 28 mpg if I didn't go WOT more than 3-4 times (hard to do ).

Sure, spirited driving mpg was in the single digits. LOL City driving wasn't great either.

Smokey The Talon

iTrader: (33)

wow, this thread has gone about a billion different directions. I'm sure I'll regret throwing my 2 cents in, but here goes anyway.

Chuck, I think you make a good point about rotary reliability. Things have now been done to greatly increase the reliability of the motors and they shouldn't be viewed as complete timebombs when they're owned by responsible owners.

That being said, I can completely understand why some people put LS1s in FDs. The FD is easily one of the best looking cars to ever be produced in my opinion. I'm sure it attracts the desire of many people who want one, but aren't fans of the rotary and don't like the little "quirks" of owning a rotary....so they put a motor in it that is mindless. They can put it in and forget about it. It's pretty damn hard to kill a LS1, so they just turn the key and they're gone.

The beauty of the FD is that you get a WIDE variety of owners who like to do different things with the car. I personally believe that the FD is perfect with the rotary, stock twins (sequential), PFC, associated cooling (water and oil) and supporting mods. You can have a pretty reliable and consistent 300-340whp car that is still easy to drive around town without trouble.

Since I track my FD I wanted to keep the rotary. I realize that the LS1 swap barely adds any weight when you consider the turbos and associated hardware to go with them, but there's no way that the weight distribution can be near the same. The rotary is actually pretty much a mid-ship engine as the bulk of it sits behind the front axle whereas an LS1 will still carry much of its weight further forward and up from there. I still also think that a rotary car is the way to have the lightest car available (mine is 2700lbs absolutely full of fuel).

The Driver

iTrader: (4)

V8's are great, power is awesome, perfect torque curve for the street, pretty lightweight, N/a and not to bad on the pockets. All these features are nice but at the end of the day I bought an Rx7 for the purpose of what it is... An RX7 not a V8 kit car.

I'm sorry to **** people off but the sound of a V8 to me is just tasteless and nothing unique. I'd almost be embarrassed picking up the girl with a sound that loud and just bland. To me the rotary is unique outside and inside cockpit sound is just awesome. Anyone can make a V8 kit car but a rotary will be unique to the death. To me a V8 Rx7 is just another kit car just as a 2JZ seven is, unless it's rotary it will never be that much of a car. A 20B rx7 is a different story though

There's over a billion cars out there from start to present day, how many are piston 99.9% the other electric and rotary. I'm glad to be that .1%

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

Maybe those 50-100 v8 rx7s are the SAME cars that are being traded off to people like baseball cards lol.

Seriously, people can believe what they want. Until there is proven evidence, I WANT to believe there is under 100 for sure v8 rx7s actually running.

If theres more, where are they? Track events? Magazines? Theres alot of people that are participating in such events yet never acknowledge the fact and say, "and here's an LSx FD that was at the event today". So where are they? Ill tell you. They are still be worked on (although i said, registered running v8 rx7s), crashed (not many) OR being sold (which the point i am arguing).

Look at the FS section of this forum. Theres 7-8 LSx swapped FD's in the first 3 pages. EIGHT! And thats people from this forum! First 3 pages!

You can imagine the route this is taken elsewhere (other forums, non forum goers).

mykah89

iTrader: (4)

Just browsing the FD section for sale (because we are in the 3rd gen section)

The point your arguing about them being sold, unless im blind, i scanned the first three pages of the for sale section and found TWO for sale, and ONE of them sold, his asking price was 24,000 OBO. So we can both agree that he got an offer in the general area of that. Browsing the other one that was for sale... people offering to trade an evo, and another guy an sti.

You want to know what i found in the rotary for sale threads? Bump for a great car, and bump for a good seller.. and the asking prices only being 10-14k.


Wanting to believe and knowing the facts are a little bit different.. i would make a pretty solid bet that there are in the general area of 100 v8 rx7s including all gens.

cozmo kraemer

This is funny, talking about this picking up a girl (in relations to a car) stuff. Reminds me of High School when I thought that kind of thing mattered, but I will oblige you anyway. The FD with a rotary is the worst car for that. Sure it is beautiful, it is also loud and smells like exhaust, oil and gas. If I want to have fun in the car for ME I take the FD. Otherwise I always take the more civilized daily driver. To say the sound detracts you is your opinion. I was just at my friend's shop and he had a CLK AMG black series there, brand spanking new. It is getting an exhaust so he had no mufflers on it, just straight cats... started that baby up and it sounded nice...not loud really...even with just the cats. First thought that came to mind was, WOW that sounds like an LS1. $140K car with a 6.3L NA v8.

But for a girl to care about the difference in sound between a rotary and an LS1 is absurd. They will never notice.

1qwik7:
There do seem to be quite a few LS1 FDs for sale, but they sell for a premium over their rotary counter parts. There is a 6 week wait for Hinson to make a subframe so I am guessing that they are building quite a few of them. I have no idea as far as numbers of completely finished cars, so I am just as curious as you. It would be cool to see statistical comparisons of what everyone has done to the 14K some odd FDs there are in existance in the US. Or how many are even running. I know of 3 in my neighborhood, including mine, all with blown rotaries.

Interesting...



I could care less what a car has under the hood...could be a hampster for all I care. If it is cost efficient, and puts a smile on my face when I DRIVE it.. I am happy. Problem with the rotary was I never got to drive it...and it wasn't cost efficient. When I did get to drive it, it had no problem with the smile portion.

I am moving to an engine that satisfies all three requirements. Doesn't mean I care if anyone else does the same.

edit: my reason for owning an FD is because I thought of it as a great driving car, that is incredibly beautiful...not because I thought the rotary was cool or that it had some prestige associated with ownership. That might put me in the minority on this board, so that creates some conflict. One thing is for sure. If my FD gets the LS1 I will look forward to actually getting to drive the car.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Did you guys all marry **** stars and then get mad that they can't cook and clean like June Cleaver too?

charlies7

iTrader: (4)

I was seeing 23-24 mpg on the highway, and that was with a 35r and a pfc. Crusing AFR's were about 13.7-14

Dont hate surpra lover

cozmo kraemer

When I was getting 23ish mpg on the highway I was running 16:1 in vacuum, never seeing richer than 15:1. This is with NO BOOST ever, 3psi wastegate spring.

cozmo kraemer

I dont get it?

So when we bought the FD was it the looks, chassis or engine we were falling love with? Wait a second...

Ok so the rotary is the **** star, I married it's uniqueness, and powers of attraction (like all other **** stars) and I am getting mad now that it doesn't cook/clean (as in run at all, be reliable)...


No a better metaphor for the rotary is this... I married this girl cause she was a **** star and now I am PISSED because she doesn't PUT OUT!