V8 Lover

Your figures are way off base. All the expenses have been calculated for our customers and therefore we know what the true cost to the "do-it-yourselfer" would be. I refuse to argue with someone who is simply guessing and hasn't done the swap. This can be done well for a budget of $12K and more ideally for $14K. As for being in the "more pricey parts of the country," Summit Racing and other internet wholesale parts suppliers are available to you too.

For the $15K you've mentioned, we will do the swap the "right" way for you including the engine and transmission.

At this time of the year, it is too much to ask. Tracks are closed till next season, and for what it's worth, more videos will be added this week to the website.

wingsfan

Brian, sent you a PM

futurerexowner

All I know is that if a bunch of people start doing this then I am going to be buying a whole lot of cheap 13B-REW's ...

artguy

tis interesting how many new peeps are coming over from the other boards to back ya up...nice.

tbie for the price of the swap I could pay a large chunk of the price you paid for that m3.

however, the m3 has a snobby yuppy stigma...a car that you would get when you need a back seat and have to sell the sports car. the rx may be complicated and finicky...but when its running smooth it is the envy of the road. plus it looks better too. Id take the fd with the swap before I purchased that m3. the rx turns my head...the bubbly m3 blends right in with the maximas...lower end 3 series...infintis...and the like...the rx stands out and still turns heads. the m3 turns heads for those who know what it does under the hood..or from those who associate overpriced german cars with success and riches.

honestly..Id probably do the full swap if I had it to do all over again...it really does sound fantastic...as long as the dyno and timeslips proved the sales estimates then how can one go wrong with it.... you wont ever catch me buying an m3 though.

btw...I eat m3s for breakfast.

v8lover...aah yes...if I have you do it for me then I have to include about a grand or so of shipping...sorta reminds me of the carpet allusion in the earlier post...hidden costs that neither the builder or the consumer are aware of til they are right there with you. we are both right in this...I imagine that the truth is somewhere in between.

you see...you are also not thinking of the unsuspected parts that need to be replaced when you do the swap...things that break...things that stick and need to be welded or cut loose...who knows what you will find in there when the car is ten years old and heavily abused. Ive spent 20-25k under my hood/body so far...and am moving upwards as we speak. Ive been dealing with this long enough to know how INTENSE modification to a vehicle works out on the pocketbook. it is always more than you expect. period.


j

rynberg

Very well said, Jason. Gee, with all of Brian's supporters insulting us for having the audacity to question any aspect of the conversion, I was beginning to think I was on the wrong forum.....

Brian has made his sales pitch and provided enough info at this point in time. Those of us who are interested will contact him or go to the other forum. Those of us who aren't interested probably won't be changing our minds anytime soon.

finky

iTrader: (2)

Wow, i just read the entire thread. I have been interested in this since I stumbled onto Jim's thread awhile ago. V8 lover-congrats on your car and business. A day when I don't have to look at the turbo timer, pray that the 93 octane rating is true, enjoy driving with one eye on the boost guage, and pop the hood after driving in an Auto X would be extremely welcomed. I love both my RX-7s and the institutes that made them the rarity they are today. I also thank you for giving people the option of this mod. It gives me something to mill over when I have my next engine failure.

Jeff

TwinTurboPOPEYE

V8lover, or anyone else familiar with the V8 swap...how did you wire the guages and what not? Did you use the LS1 ECU and wiring harness or what....were you able to wire it to the stocl tach....thats one of my favorite parts and if I ever did the swap I would hate to lose it. I feel the hardest part od the swap would be the wiring....have you spoken of that yet in this thread...if you havent do you know where I can go to read up on it?
-Josh

LUV94RX7

iTrader: (3)

I am all for the V8 conversion ideas for some of us rotary guys. My nephew has a Chev V8 FC and it is kool and rock solid. I will say that if you have an already well running rotary and you are worried about blowing up due to over heating and detonation you might want to look into water injection. Here is an excellent thread on the MR2 board on this subject.

A Syclone reduced EGTs 40C with water on compared to off. I'm sure the improvements on rotaries are much greater. I know of no one who has detonated a rotary with water on and properly tuned and installed. Rice Racing with his 600+ hp drag/street car has not blown up yet after years of racing and he gives water the main credit.

http://www.board.mr2faq.com/showthre...hreadid=112592

I'm betting my motor will not blow up, if it does then I did all I could do to make it bullet-proof. If it blows then I will either sell it or put a V8 in it.

Ken, 58 years young
'94 white, pep, red leather,
mods: Hayes/KDR street port & polished,
3mm Hurley racing seals,
upgraded coolant seals,
Power FC ecu, Commander, Datalogit,
XS T04e single turbo kit,
GReddy SMIC (400+cu.in.),
Aquamist 2s water injection kit,
Pettit ss resonated MP,
Pettit ss cat-back,
RP Racing fuel pump,
1600cc injectors,
Profec B(15&22psi),
3-Bar Map Sensor,
Centerforce clutch,
Racelogic Traction Control,
Under pulley kit (no air pump),
Pettit short shifter kit,
LaBreck's bushings,
Evans Coolant
http://nopistons.com/luv94rx7.html
http://flathat.woodstream.net/LUV94RX7/

wingsfan

Popeye,

I haven't done the swap, so I haven't seen the exact wiring headache, but I'm guessing it's a bitch.

That said, you should be able to use the LS1 computer for your needs. Carputing sells software that you can use to adjust your fuel maps called LS1 edit. YOu can download their online manual for free if you're interested in its capabilities.

http://www.carputing.com/

As for the tach and speedo, and all the other gauges for that matter, you should be able to keep them if you can figure out how to wire them. Both the tach and the speedometer will require an interface to interpret the new signal to the appropriate reading. Dakota digital makes a nice tool to do just that:

http://www.dakotadigital.com/products.cfm?Category=122

SGI5 - Universal Speedometer interface
SGI8 - Universal Tachomoeter interface

Both are around $100 I believe, which would make them cheaper than most aftermarket gauges. Hope that helps.

TwinTurboPOPEYE

Hey thanks Wingsfan.....
I will most Def look into those..

V8lover..how did u do your gauges?

V8 Lover

All of the wiring headaches are clearly explained in a write up for those who purchase our conversion. We have removed all the grey area of the installation with wire to wire instructions.

Wingsfan is correct about the speedometer. I am currently using a Dakota Digital unit to calibrate the speedometer. The LS1 computer works on roughly twice the PPM that of the RX7 speedometer. The "DD" simply cuts the signal in half.

The RX7 tachometer and the tach output of the LS1 computer both work on a 4cyl ratio, so there is no need to modify the tach signal from the LS1 computer.

The oil pressure and coolant temperature guages were used by installing Mazda sending units in the LS1. It is a very simple fix to the problem.

This is a straight forward conversion for the mechanically inclined. The wiring is explained to you in a way of a novice can understand, and our conversion components allow a simple drop in and bolt in installation of the LS1.

twint78

twinturbopopeye look at my thread on the v8 write up how to.

artguy:man ur an ***.and the conversion is not completely done.i rushed and rushed to get it in and get it running.now im taking a few days to get it streetable.
as far as the engine bay being dirty.it is actually not that bad.not even half a can or carb cleaner would be needed.plus the conversion on top of this has not been fully done cuz now im taking my time.when im done im sure i can pull the engine and chrome it out for u dawg.like all the real rotary owners.nothin but 40 yr old ricers.at least 70 percent anyways.

we are not getting mad about you questioning us about the conversion.we r getting upset on how you approach it.you approach it in the most ignorant, hateful way.like kids.not men.what does this say about rotards?not much.

if you ask us about our conversion, then do it with intelligence.not "A v8!!!dat dere be trowin dat wierda steering geo-metry off"

how do you know?do u drive lt1 or ls1 rx7's on a daily basis for car and driver to give theme facts and opinion's on it.no.i didnt think so.do you own a 3 rotor rx7?probably not,yet im sure u have made the comment"the bump steer is insane."how exactly do u know?u dont.

and for anyone that says a rotary is reliable(at least a turbo one)then u deserve it.u can bleed ur pockets all day.ive heard the expression"ppl expect a high hp turbo car to be so reliable"255 hp is not alot of hp in my opinion.its not what i would say wreaking of hp.yes a n/a last 200k miles.but who wants 100-150hp.just go buy a honda and it will last 300k with 190hp.

as far as you saying why would u come out of pocket 15k for an ls1 conversion?look,id rather spend 15k on a 400hp v8 conversion bringing me 150-200k miles of pleasure than.paying 10k now on 400hp rotary that will last about 20k miles,that will cost me another 4k to get an engine rebuild.

lets add up these cost.

mileage:200k hp:400 cost:20k engine:ls6
30k 400 10k rotary
30k ---- 4k rebuild rotary
30k ----- 4k -------- -------
30k ------ 6k rebuild and coolant problems.

shall i go on.i only went to 120k miles for a turbo rotary.

i know this guy that owns a 140k mile stock 3rd gen.hes on his 3rd or 4th engine.wow the wreaks of reliability.mine last 20k miles,mine died earlier cuz i daily drove it and abused it a little more.this was on a brand new engine.


oh hey brian.i am taking and dropping the steering rack about 25% so lt1 can sit lower.i will be redoing the geometry.im sure what kind of replies i will get from this.BUMPSTEER BUMPSTEER.when even at rotorsports racing will tell u it is nothing to address other than fixing your toe and camber again.plus a 25% drop will not affect a thing rotary lovers.

V8 Lover

This thread needs to stay civil. If you only care to discuss off topic issues such as negative comments to individuals or your never ending love for the rotary/LS1/V8, please do so in a PM or separate thread.

jimlab

You can't fix bump steer with toe or camber settings. Bump steer is caused by relocating the steering rack up or down, which changes the alignment of the tie rod to the lower control arm. The tie rod must move at the same angle as the lower control arm or it will push or pull the tires in or out when the car hits a bump. The only solution is to relocate the tie rod mounting point on the steering knuckle so that the suspension geometry is corrected. Period.

There may not be a large effect from dropping the rack only a quarter of an inch (which is what I think you meant by 25%), but there will be some effect. Are you going to bet your life that there isn't and take the car to 100+ mph? Nice knowing you.

The Pettit 20B cars had bump steer problems initially. The steering rack had to be moved substantially to clear the oil pan on the 20B, and until recently, I don't think that Pettit was doing anything about it. I've heard several people with early 20B FDs comment on bump steer problems. No, I haven't owned one myself, but I didn't have to in order to know that it's a possibility, since I understand what bump steer is, what causes it, and what is required to correct it.

The SP Engineering Supra 7 has horrible bump steer, by their own admission. I've heard that it tracks all over the road at high speeds as the incredibly low rack mounting provisions required by the 2JZ-GTE really screwed up the suspension geometry. I don't know that you could lower the tie rod ends far enough to correct for such a large discrepancy, unless you used huge wheels to get more clearance.

If the rack goes down, the tie rod end must go down an equal amount. If the rack goes up, so must the tie rod end. If the rack goes forward, the tie rod link must be lengthened. It's pretty simple.

twint78

sorry jim that i didnt mention the tie rod.i was just making a point that it is correctable with the geometry to be played with.and that yes i know the 20b can have bumpsteer issues.but i was pointing out these guys in here will talk about how the effects are so horrible and how it drives.as if they do it on a daily basis.

V8 Lover

Jim is correct with his description. The bump steer solution for our modified subframe is available.

Racing over 100+mph without this will ruin your day.

HDP

iTrader: (2)

I have mixed feelings about it. I watched the video and that primitive V-8 rumble does not fit the slick sophisticated looks of the 7.

BizarroTerl

By reading the thread you'd see that the video was made before an exhaust was installed. Those are straight pipes baby!

artguy

so first it was like 8-10 grand...then it was 12 grand...now its fifteen grand....which the hell is it?

LMAO...add in shipping and it is up to at least 16k from your estimates. However, how much is it to do it right..and not just do it to get it in there so it runs?

I wasnt trying to deliberately be an ***...sorry...i was simply pointing out that if you try to go the cheap route then it will look like it. Im not a ricer...I just expect CRAFTSMANSHIP for 15k plus...something that obviously costs more money than that.

I also wanted to point out the hidden costs you are not mentioning (vehicle shipping...other broken parts...etc..)
Im sorry if this upsets ya...its not meant to.

twin...if you notice...I do support your venture...do you see me in your thread saying this stuff? no...I am simply trying to figure out how this is going to work and what it will cost through this vendor.

a vendor and their cronies coming in from other boards to chatter about their AFFORDABLE and WONDERFUL products with only half the story will dig up all sorts of people with questions. I am one of these people.

again..the idea is a noble one...but salesman tactics and all sorts of insults to the rotary rx community in this grudge match are uncalled for and to be called out.

when a salesman comes and says "I can build you the best gizmo you have ever seen!" I want to know what that gizmo is...could I use it?...is it true?....when I ask the salesman if he has a finished and proven gizmo and he says no...what am I to think?

then I am told that my current gizmo is a POS and that it sucks and is expensive and that his gizmo is much better and more affordable. when he is asked what the price is he says "cheap and affordable"...and "better than what you have"....when pressed a price is thrown out of under ten grand....then someone comes and says "no way" and the salesman says "ok I meant 12 grand"...and then someone else comes and says "BS!" and so the salesman says "ok fifteen grand"...and someone else comes and says "what about shipping and such" now its up to 16-17 grand for a BASE GIZMO...

do you see why I am asking questions....correct me if I am wrong but it seems like these guys will be successful with their prototype...but is it not premature to come on in and blast all rotary vehicles in comparison to a gizmo that is not even tuned yet?...or proven on the track...or proven on the dyno...or proven to be RELIABLE as a conversion?

I have been thru the guinie pig thing before...Ive spent thousands and have gotten the car I want...but it was not without headaches and many many surprise and unexpected costs. for example...i had expected to pay about 8 grand for what I needed to run my turbo upgrades...guess what...it ended up costing a LOT more than I had originally intended...this was only because I had to do so much of it myself in a seek and discovery way. first estimates were low...then things started to add up...I needed this....I broke that....this wont fit....I didnt know I needed that...oh ok...ya see what I mean? you guys are doing this for the first time...when you cars are done and you have something to show then feel free to come in and blast the rotary community for their finicky automobiles....til then good luck with your project.


jason

Brad

Damn dude you have some seriously long winded posts...

Next time can we have the cliff's notes version?

V8 Lover

All costs related to HinsonSuperCars.com have been calculated for our customers to do the conversion our way, the right way. The charges are explained in detail on the website, and I invite anyone with questions to please do their own research within our webiste and around the internet. If you have any specific questions, please email them to me via sales@hinsonsupercars.com.

Flybye

I find that VERY hard to believe.
Take it from someone that drove a 6.6l engine out on the road to the muffler shop on open long tube headers

V8 Lover

Straight pipes = no restriction

Flybye

How the hell does that thing sound so quiet?
I guess maybe those heads don't have a big a valve as I had Actually, now that I did a little research, my valves WERE bigger. But I can't still believe that it makes that much of a differance in noise

Oh, I had an old 75 TA with a prepped 400.

shred

He didn't hit the gas, the newer motors are pretty calm until you get on it. Very believable sound, my RX-7 right now would be louder!!

Is very weird to hear the sound but I toast you all for such success in putting this together. A little pricey for me (just replaced my rotary) but I have got to had it to you for listening to the bitches and complaints of all the RX-7 owners and comming up with a viable solution that people can afford.

Reliability, its definetly there, fuel economy, much better, horsepower, oh yeah, maintenance, much lower.

I do my own maintenance on my FD so I don't feel the crunch that most would but I can really relate to being able to just jump into your car, start it up and slam on the gas without looking at your gages every second and checking under the car every time you get out for the slightest hint of leaks and basically expecting everything to fall apart.

Have to say you have a brass set, and they are big for all to see, you got something that can catch on, just needs to be shined up a little bit. That and go kick some rotaries at the track, actions speak louder then words and dyno numbers.