How to value your FD
03-31-17, 09:01 AM
#253
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Price them right and these cars sell incredibly fast for 25 year old sports cars.
In other words the demand is strong
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...vr-r1-1112536/
In other words the demand is strong
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...vr-r1-1112536/
03-31-17, 09:30 AM
#254
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There a multiple factors .... I think his ads are "too much", clearly laid on "thick". Reading them makes me think of that used car salesman with too much aftershave lathered on.
That 93 VR R1 is a nice buy. It even sounds like he sold it for less than asking price based on his response later in the thread.
That 93 VR R1 is a nice buy. It even sounds like he sold it for less than asking price based on his response later in the thread.
03-31-17, 09:54 AM
#255
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There a multiple factors .... I think his ads are "too much", clearly laid on "thick". Reading them makes me think of that used car salesman with too much aftershave lathered on.
That 93 VR R1 is a nice buy. It even sounds like he sold it for less than asking price based on his response later in the thread.
That 93 VR R1 is a nice buy. It even sounds like he sold it for less than asking price based on his response later in the thread.
It's a much better way to go vs 30k for one with 20k miles. Sort of the point of this whole thread and the reason it's difficult to sell even very nice FDs for 30.
I used to sing the exact opposite tune but that was when the 60k mile car cost 18 and the 20k mile car cost 25 LOL. I can live with a 7k spread but not a 10k plus one.
PS AND with each passing year that stock engine is slowly being dissolved by rust etc... unless the upkeep is superb.
Last edited by Fritz Flynn; 03-31-17 at 10:05 AM.
03-31-17, 12:10 PM
#256
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I'm a complete nut. Fortunately my wife doesn't tell me what to do but unfortunately I can't tell her what to do LOL
I have a 3 car garage, a trailer and lots of parking lot space.
PS If I was you (you seem more collector oriented or won't put many miles on it) I'd spend a little more and check out John's car (VR R1 on the forum/guarantee he's flexible/old school member), the VR r2 on autotrader, etc...
Last edited by Fritz Flynn; 03-31-17 at 12:13 PM.
03-31-17, 06:27 PM
#257
Senior Member
Yeah the SSM auction closed really fast, so I'm sure he got an offer on the side for that one outside of eBay.
Y'all leave a lot for me to aspire to--I have four cars right now, but only a two-car garage, so not really any more room for anything fun. Looking to move to a three-car garage and put in a four-post at some point, but I don't think the wife is going to let me buy another FD to play around with. :P
Y'all leave a lot for me to aspire to--I have four cars right now, but only a two-car garage, so not really any more room for anything fun. Looking to move to a three-car garage and put in a four-post at some point, but I don't think the wife is going to let me buy another FD to play around with. :P
04-02-17, 12:54 AM
#259
Bose system eats up trunk space, is ugly, breaks more, harder to repair/replace.
A little bit more race car.
If you like grand touring, like sunroofs, and don't have headroom issues then touring/peg/pep are great.
Last edited by Narfle; 04-02-17 at 12:56 AM.
04-02-17, 10:06 AM
#260
Yeah I do notice more headroom. I have a 95 base now thats why I was asking lol before I had a 93 touring.
More rare, lighter weight, more headroom, cloth seats preferred over leather.
Bose system eats up trunk space, is ugly, breaks more, harder to repair/replace.
A little bit more race car.
If you like grand touring, like sunroofs, and don't have headroom issues then touring/peg/pep are great.
Bose system eats up trunk space, is ugly, breaks more, harder to repair/replace.
A little bit more race car.
If you like grand touring, like sunroofs, and don't have headroom issues then touring/peg/pep are great.
04-02-17, 12:34 PM
#261
As for me I HAVE to have a sunroof because the FD is a freaking hot box and the sunroof does a great job in getting the heat out of the cockpit. So a base model or R model is not something I desire, but like I said all other components are easily swappable and therefore I get to incorporate attributes from the R model that I deem desireable. Such as dual oil coolers.
Last edited by Montego; 04-02-17 at 12:40 PM.
04-11-17, 10:27 AM
#262
What's sad is that when I was a freshman in college in 2009 'FD dreaming' the classifieds, at any given time there were 20-30 sub 50k miles, 1-2 owner clean stock FDs on Autotrader between $12-15k. Now those cars are $25k+ and they aren't easy to find. What happened to all the nice FDs in the last 8 years?
Last edited by c0rbin9; 04-11-17 at 10:30 AM.
04-11-17, 10:44 AM
#263
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What's sad is that when I was a freshman in college in 2009 'FD dreaming' the classifieds, at any given time there were 20-30 sub 50k miles, 1-2 owner clean stock FDs on Autotrader between $12-15k. Now those cars are $25k+ and they aren't easy to find. What happened to all the nice FDs in the last 8 years?
1993 Mazda RX-7 very rare car, still stock, so much potential!!! | eBay
It's all about supply and demand. Supply has been moving down and demand has been moving up
I can't wait to get my MB with 31k miles up and running
04-12-17, 10:58 PM
#267
That's a stretch but cars like this one listed below on ebay were certainly 12k at most.
1993 Mazda RX-7 very rare car, still stock, so much potential!!! | eBay
It's all about supply and demand. Supply has been moving down and demand has been moving up
I can't wait to get my MB with 31k miles up and running
1993 Mazda RX-7 very rare car, still stock, so much potential!!! | eBay
It's all about supply and demand. Supply has been moving down and demand has been moving up
I can't wait to get my MB with 31k miles up and running
on topic though it blows my mind on how expensive some people still think these cars should be. While in most of our opinions they're definitely the most attractive car from the 90's the rotary keeps the value low because so many people are just scared of them and clueless on how they work or how to maintain them. I saw a kid with a beat up 94 with 115k on FB asking 24k for it and he literally got laughed out of the group. He stuck to his guns and swore it was worth it, but no one agreed with him lol.
04-13-17, 02:03 AM
#268
Prime Examples up for Auction
There are about 10~15 top level RHD up for auction in Japan over the next two days. With cars of such class going recently for about US$16~18,000, the auction results may be a good indicator of where prices are headed. It seems, to me, there is a strong "collector" feel to the prices being paid. Are people buying to hold for ten years until US market ready? Hoping to double or triple their money?
The actual sales price difference between what equivalent 1992 and 1995 models, say, have recently sold for, indicates a tripling is not necessarily far fetched.
The actual sales price difference between what equivalent 1992 and 1995 models, say, have recently sold for, indicates a tripling is not necessarily far fetched.
04-13-17, 08:16 AM
#269
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In other words this isn't a bad time to sell.
hey hey hey don't get too excited because I already told you I'm stealing it from you whether you like it or not!
on topic though it blows my mind on how expensive some people still think these cars should be. While in most of our opinions they're definitely the most attractive car from the 90's the rotary keeps the value low because so many people are just scared of them and clueless on how they work or how to maintain them. I saw a kid with a beat up 94 with 115k on FB asking 24k for it and he literally got laughed out of the group. He stuck to his guns and swore it was worth it, but no one agreed with him lol.
on topic though it blows my mind on how expensive some people still think these cars should be. While in most of our opinions they're definitely the most attractive car from the 90's the rotary keeps the value low because so many people are just scared of them and clueless on how they work or how to maintain them. I saw a kid with a beat up 94 with 115k on FB asking 24k for it and he literally got laughed out of the group. He stuck to his guns and swore it was worth it, but no one agreed with him lol.
There are about 10~15 top level RHD up for auction in Japan over the next two days. With cars of such class going recently for about US$16~18,000, the auction results may be a good indicator of where prices are headed. It seems, to me, there is a strong "collector" feel to the prices being paid. Are people buying to hold for ten years until US market ready? Hoping to double or triple their money?
The actual sales price difference between what equivalent 1992 and 1995 models, say, have recently sold for, indicates a tripling is not necessarily far fetched.
The actual sales price difference between what equivalent 1992 and 1995 models, say, have recently sold for, indicates a tripling is not necessarily far fetched.
SUPPLY AND DEMAND is starting to reach the critical level of nothing good available for less than 25 or 30k. I suspect in 2 years the chance of finding a low mileage, well maintained FD for less than 25 will be like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
That said today it's still doable. I see all these WTB threads and there are 10 good FDs out there but the buyers won't pull the trigger. What do they think
, there will be 20 next year. NOPE, there will 5, then 2, then 1 and then none.
04-13-17, 05:10 PM
#270
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I don't think we're seeing much effect at all from what we would call "collectors". I think the majority of buyers paying up for FD's are people who want fast, great handling cars that look beautiful. If you look at the prices of new low-end sports cars, like the BRZ's, Fiats, Miatas, etc, they are all, say, $25-35,000 and they are not as fast or as good-looking as an FD. Buying any sports car or sports sedan with comparable speed and handling -- there aren't any with the looks -- you're talking $50-75,000. So, a low mile FD at $20-25,000 may be a real bargain.
I'd guess half the people spending 30k plus for low mileage stock examples are thinking limited miles/collector.
Once the low mileage cars starts costing 40k plus (and they will hehe) then most of those buyers will be collectors.
40k today buys low mileage:
Cayman
V8 m3
corvette
new mustang with 8k left over to mod it
etc....
Speaking of the E92 I may buy one of those soon
04-13-17, 06:17 PM
#271
Folks spending 22k for FDs with 115k miles are not collectors that's for certain.
I'd guess half the people spending 30k plus for low mileage stock examples are thinking limited miles/collector.
Once the low mileage cars starts costing 40k plus (and they will hehe) then most of those buyers will be collectors.
40k today buys low mileage:
Cayman
V8 m3
corvette
new mustang with 8k left over to mod it
etc....
Speaking of the E92 I may buy one of those soon
I'd guess half the people spending 30k plus for low mileage stock examples are thinking limited miles/collector.
Once the low mileage cars starts costing 40k plus (and they will hehe) then most of those buyers will be collectors.
40k today buys low mileage:
Cayman
V8 m3
corvette
new mustang with 8k left over to mod it
etc....
Speaking of the E92 I may buy one of those soon
04-13-17, 10:32 PM
#272
Why Pay Premium
The current pattern at Japanese auctions, as I see it, is that bidders are paying outsized premiums for limited edition Spirit R or Bathhurst (and RZ) . If people were just going for performance the later model Type RBs only have 20 hp less and are substantially the same cars except for more plain seats, standard suspension, and not too much else different. The Type RB are selling for about $8000 less (except for some rare examples).
04-14-17, 07:39 AM
#273
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The current pattern at Japanese auctions, as I see it, is that bidders are paying outsized premiums for limited edition Spirit R or Bathhurst (and RZ) . If people were just going for performance the later model Type RBs only have 20 hp less and are substantially the same cars except for more plain seats, standard suspension, and not too much else different. The Type RB are selling for about $8000 less (except for some rare examples).
Possibly the most important collector FDs both here and around the world will be those special cars regardless if they are RHD or not
04-14-17, 11:31 AM
#274
Weak Week
Seems only about 5 FD out of about 20, sold this week. None of the high end stuff and good bargains on the base models (ie. about Y500,000). May be "cherry blossom viewing week" in Japan?
There is a 92 crossing the screens today (last night). See how it went.
There is a 92 crossing the screens today (last night). See how it went.
04-20-17, 10:39 AM
#275
Junior Member
I know we've all talked endlessly about the value of these cars but a practical perspective is ripe or timely because the majority of the high priced FDs (prices north of 25k) I see for sale are not selling.
I've bought and sold hundreds of these cars so it's really easy for me to wax on and on about it.
The biggest reason I see for the prices hitting a wall is the availability of good cars priced 20k and below. When I say good I just mean they are straight, no rust, decent interior etc...
Follow that up with the cost of refurbishing the above car and this is where the wall is created.
Now add in the fact that most irons in these cars are 25 plus years old (most 93s built in 92) and have seen better days and they will eventually fail because of rust etc....or in other words the engine will need to be rebuilt on even the lowest mileage FD unless the maintenance was stellar. This usually isn't the case. Most low mileage FDs just sit in someones storage facility which is a great way to create internal engine rust.
So the elephant in the room is obvious to me. Why would I spend 35k for an FD with 20k miles that's mint when I can still buy a good one for 17? When the price was 25k it made sense to get the expensive FD (low mileage FD) but 17k goes a long way and rust never sleeps so the older these cars get the less reliable the original engine will be.
Example below of a decent FD I'd buy long before buying a 30k plus priced FD. The one below may already be sold or will sell soon where as all the ones listed for 30k plus will sit on autotrader for years (until the market catches up to the price) unless the sellers wake up or decide to take that cough cough low ball offer.
Cars for Sale: Used 1994 Mazda RX-7 Turbo for sale in Gainesville, GA 30501: Hatchback Details - 424192926 - Autotrader
Lets talk money and what that extra 17k you have in the bank will buy you. With some cars like the 993 911 for example the 17k will only rebuild your engine, BUT with the FD you get significantly more.
Engine 5k (NEW ENGINE)
Paint 7k (above car doesn't need paint)
Misc interior parts 2k (above car doesn't need interior work)
Used low mileage JDM trans 750 to 1k (every FD with 50k plus miles could use some trans work)
Labor to put said parts in 2k
So once the engine blows on the fairly priced FD you purchased you go through everything in the engine and you'll be out 7500 max BUT your engine should be solid for another 50k miles or more.
Over the winter you have it painted and put in some new weather stripping etc... 7k
Once the trans dies you either rebuild or replace 1500
etc...etc...
And it's not a matter of if on the original engine but when. So add 5k to your 35k total and it's starts to become pretty damn clear the FD isn't a good value at 30 or event 29k if you can still find them in good shape for 17k or anywhere below 20.
Anyway that's why you can't sell your FD for 30k if it has more than 30k miles on it. If someone decides to buy it well good for you (there is an *** for every seat), but if you want it to sell (and not waste money on taxes, storage fees, ins and or risk damage/mechanical loss), you may want to reconsider your price at this time.
There are clearly lots of FDs listed for 30k by owners who don't care if they sell and I am also sometimes in that camp so I understand the reason to keep it versus sell for anything less but if that's true then your car really isn't for sale, you are simply testing the market and your test failed LOL.
I've bought and sold hundreds of these cars so it's really easy for me to wax on and on about it.
The biggest reason I see for the prices hitting a wall is the availability of good cars priced 20k and below. When I say good I just mean they are straight, no rust, decent interior etc...
Follow that up with the cost of refurbishing the above car and this is where the wall is created.
Now add in the fact that most irons in these cars are 25 plus years old (most 93s built in 92) and have seen better days and they will eventually fail because of rust etc....or in other words the engine will need to be rebuilt on even the lowest mileage FD unless the maintenance was stellar. This usually isn't the case. Most low mileage FDs just sit in someones storage facility which is a great way to create internal engine rust.
So the elephant in the room is obvious to me. Why would I spend 35k for an FD with 20k miles that's mint when I can still buy a good one for 17? When the price was 25k it made sense to get the expensive FD (low mileage FD) but 17k goes a long way and rust never sleeps so the older these cars get the less reliable the original engine will be.
Example below of a decent FD I'd buy long before buying a 30k plus priced FD. The one below may already be sold or will sell soon where as all the ones listed for 30k plus will sit on autotrader for years (until the market catches up to the price) unless the sellers wake up or decide to take that cough cough low ball offer.
Cars for Sale: Used 1994 Mazda RX-7 Turbo for sale in Gainesville, GA 30501: Hatchback Details - 424192926 - Autotrader
Lets talk money and what that extra 17k you have in the bank will buy you. With some cars like the 993 911 for example the 17k will only rebuild your engine, BUT with the FD you get significantly more.
Engine 5k (NEW ENGINE)
Paint 7k (above car doesn't need paint)
Misc interior parts 2k (above car doesn't need interior work)
Used low mileage JDM trans 750 to 1k (every FD with 50k plus miles could use some trans work)
Labor to put said parts in 2k
So once the engine blows on the fairly priced FD you purchased you go through everything in the engine and you'll be out 7500 max BUT your engine should be solid for another 50k miles or more.
Over the winter you have it painted and put in some new weather stripping etc... 7k
Once the trans dies you either rebuild or replace 1500
etc...etc...
And it's not a matter of if on the original engine but when. So add 5k to your 35k total and it's starts to become pretty damn clear the FD isn't a good value at 30 or event 29k if you can still find them in good shape for 17k or anywhere below 20.
Anyway that's why you can't sell your FD for 30k if it has more than 30k miles on it. If someone decides to buy it well good for you (there is an *** for every seat), but if you want it to sell (and not waste money on taxes, storage fees, ins and or risk damage/mechanical loss), you may want to reconsider your price at this time.
There are clearly lots of FDs listed for 30k by owners who don't care if they sell and I am also sometimes in that camp so I understand the reason to keep it versus sell for anything less but if that's true then your car really isn't for sale, you are simply testing the market and your test failed LOL.
I love you!! no homo.....but as a buyer for the FD I have seen countless requests for 30k+ and everything you just wrote is exactly what goes through my mind. So hard to make the decision to throw 30k at the car when you KNOW you will have to dump more. regardless of how "mint" the seller says it is....so hard to find a down to earth seller.
I am in the works of looking at a couple this weekend. I had a seller drop his *DAMAGED* touring package from 35k to 28k and I still had to back out. It was too costly with the known repairs I had to do up front.
Amazing post my friend,
+1 from me,
Cheers