|
Declining Values?
Hi All,
I just saw the latest update to Hagerty's Price Guide Report for the 3rd Gen. To my surprise, the values showed another slight decrease in the price. Price Guide Report I feel that I have been hearing quite a bit more mention of the 3rd Gen in various discussions of up-and-coming collector cars and I was expecting to see a bit of a bump in the values. Any thoughts? Accurate? Lagging the market? |
its winter, these are summer cars
|
If the overall value is declining it's because so many FDs are not being maintained or are being poorly 'modified' with low quality body kits and other tasteless changes.
The market for clean, low mileage, tastefully modified FDs is rising and continues to rise IMO. Take a look at Autotrader and you'll find quite a few clean examples with asking prices of around $30,000. I myself sold a low mileage BB R1 for just short of that price about a year ago. Still regretting that one :lol: |
What's considered low mileage?
|
hard to say. The cars are over 20 years old now...... under 75k in my opinion is nice, under 50k is even nicer.
|
LOL
Graph is a joke. Please search this forum, autotrader, craigslist etc... and find a nice FD for 18k. Post it here and I'll either buy it or pick it apart :) |
Just figured out the graph. The only nice FDs that have sold in the last 24 months have been allrotor93's cars at a 15k avg. He's probably sold 20 which is more than the rest of the country combined has sold :lol:
These are the 3 cars I'd be interested in buying: 1994 Mazda RX-7 Twin Turbo R2 Chantilly , Virginia | Motorcars Washington Cars for Sale: 1993 Mazda RX-7 in Westborough, MA 01581: Hatchback Details - 384996123 - AutoTrader.com Cars for Sale: 1994 Mazda RX-7 in Ellicott City, MD 21042: Hatchback Details - 391574615 - AutoTrader.com The clear deal is the CW touring :nod: |
Scratch the ssm touring from the list. Body damage.........see what I'm saying LOL
|
A few years ago, if you wanted your unicorn you just had to wait and cough up $20k.
(94/94 base or r2. Close to stock, w/ emissions & AC, not carved up for an knock-off widebody, not red) Now you have to hunt and cough up ~$30k. On the other hand, there are lots more abused FD's available now. Color changes, gutted creature comforts, awful modifications, cheap wheels. $8-12k. Racers and ricers are quickly moving through the supply of mid-range FDs. We're now left with the low and high end. It's relatively rare that an FD leaves an owner nicer than it got to them. I'm trying myself, it's hard. Time, money, whatever. Price guides are for squid and insurance companies. They're not a comprehensive resource. Everyone here knows what it takes to get a top-notch FD. It's not getting cheaper. It's not getting cheaper fast. |
Not until the market takes a dump anyway.
|
Discretionary spending is tied to the health of the economy and times are pretty good: growing employment, rising US GDP, (stock) market highs, consumer confidence, and cheap oil. 2008 and the years shortly after are evidence prices move both directions.
|
Originally Posted by gmonsen
(Post 11860627)
Good points, broadly. There are about 147,000,000 people employed and I would argue that the 1-percenters are generally not effected much in downturns. I don't remember well, but thought prices more or less stagnated for FD's after 2008. They still went up though more slowly for M3's. These are third, fourth, fifth, sixth cars. There are a fair number of guys on here with multiple collector cars or exotics, including an FD. Earnings have been stagnate for years now and although CPI seems low, its components do not include food or gas, so, clearly, the discretionary income of the middle and of lower working classes has declined. The upper quintile of the employed have not had stagnant incomes even during the 2008-2012 period. I think we may be headed into a very difficult time, again or still, I suppose. Wages are stagnant or down for the majority of working Americans and the prices of staples, food, gas, oil, electricity, and health care are up notably. We'll see what happens, but the only serious downturn I really remember was around 1990, where a recession combined with a 10n year binge of collector car speculation.
G The cost of living reached a point in 2007 where the avg american was spending more they earn and that's critical because each day that goes by while this is occurring is another day that we all have to pay for this. So the gov is broke and the people are broke at some point we have to pay for it and it's only a matter of time before this country is crushed by the weight of it's debt just like all the other countries that have counterfeited money for too long. Will this effect the price of low mileage FDs? F$CK no because the people that will end up buying them are the ones with 6 car garages who have bought the condo you live in and sit back raking in cash from all the investments/assets they have accumulated over the last 10 years by taking adv of the cheap money. |
Originally Posted by gmonsen
(Post 11860396)
Fritz... That SSM R2 is fantastic. Best of everything, imho. Cars like these are going to increase rapidly over the next 5+ years. I can't justify another one yet, though I keep trying. :( I do occasionally think about trading somebody even for one of these.
G (rear bumper...) BUT I already HATE paying the frikken property tax and auto taxes I'm currently paying and those of course will continue to go higher and higher along with medical expenses etc... to pay for all the jacked up BS in this country like: Stupid wars STupid health system Stupid war on drugs Stupid education system Jacked up infrastructures Stupid economic policies.......IOW stupid american gov...... |
Interesting that the '93 linked above refers twice to the great 4 speed manual?
|
Originally Posted by jmadams74
(Post 11860695)
Interesting that the '93 linked above refers twice to the great 4 speed manual?
when you see dealers smart enough to recognize a classic car that they know nothing about you are witnessing the birth of said classic car. I get so tired of looking at R1 and R2 listings to find with great disappointment it's a touring because the dealer has no idea what they are selling. |
In September, I purchased a 94 Chaste White Touring with 33k miles. It was not the cheap FD that was easily attainable from 8 years ago. I've owned several FDs, and what I've started to notice now, is that maintaining these cars has gotten quite expensive. Parts can be difficult to find, interior parts in good condition are at a premium.
I feel like an old man now, because I'm finding myself actually interested in restoring the car, rather than modifying it like I used to. This tells me some interesting things. First, a well maintained, low mileage FD is going to be a tough car to come by in a few more years, as prices for parts and engines will only increase, and shops that specialize in them will decrease. Second, buyers who are my age, wanting to find a "unicorn" FD, are going to be interested in a stock car that has been well maintain and restored that they remember looking at years before. Those same guys are going to be getting to the age where they will have a lot more money available for such a car. I agree that prices are going to increase significantly in the next decade. |
In September, I purchased a 94 Chaste White Touring with 33k miles. It was not the cheap FD that was easily attainable from 8 years ago. I've owned several FDs, and what I've started to notice now, is that maintaining these cars has gotten quite expensive. Parts can be difficult to find, interior parts in good condition are at a premium.
I feel like an old man now, because I'm finding myself actually interested in restoring the car, rather than modifying it like I used to. This tells me some interesting things. First, a well maintained, low mileage FD is going to be a tough car to come by in a few more years, as prices for parts and engines will only increase, and shops that specialize in them will decrease. Second, buyers who are my age, wanting to find a "unicorn" FD, are going to be interested in a stock car that has been well maintain and restored that they remember looking at years before. Those same guys are going to be getting to the age where they will have a lot more money available for such a car. I agree that prices are going to increase significantly in the next decade. |
Originally Posted by Fritz Flynn
(Post 11860680)
Will this effect the price of low mileage FDs? F$CK no because the people that will end up buying them are the ones with 6 car garages who have bought the condo you live in and sit back raking in cash from all the investments/assets they have accumulated over the last 10 years by taking adv of the cheap money.
|
Originally Posted by VTECthis
(Post 11860805)
I've owned several FDs, and what I've started to notice now, is that maintaining these cars has gotten quite expensive. Parts can be difficult to find, interior parts in good condition are at a premium.
I feel like an old man now, because I'm finding myself actually interested in restoring the car, rather than modifying it like I used to. |
Originally Posted by gmonsen
(Post 11860822)
VTECthis... As an older guy here that bought his first FD new as a middle-aged guy, I started moving that way a while ago. I went with an NA 3 rotor in a car that looks very stock and often wish I had simply kept my 18,000 mile '93 R1 totally stock. I haven't kept up with how many of these are on the road and of those how many might be clean, stock, low mile fairly pristine cars. Fritz has a better handle on that, I'm sure. I doubt there are more than 10,000 of these registered and on the road out of the 15,000 brought over here. If 2,000 are still stock of those, I would think its a high number. Of those, may 500 are low mile pristine cars at most. You've done the math already apparently. :-)
G |
Originally Posted by gmonsen
(Post 11860822)
Mazderati... I'm beginning to think I remember you from some time ago. Most stockholders are passive pension funds investing for workers. Most of the rest are longer term investments. Margins are more conservative than ever. Very very few investors are leveraged in the sense you suggest it. The upper 2-5% of the country is doing very very well and they survived the last home price downturn. While I think we are headed for a recession, I do not believe that the top end is going to be effected much at all. It frankly seldom is. Lastly, how do you jump to the opinion that those who have money in some downturn are going to pass over the FD for something else? Did you read VTECthis' post? Amazingly, smart, well-off people are actually capable of appreciating the unique, outstanding beauty and performance of Japan's finest sports. Apparently, more so than some owners? Can we stop the doom and gloom?
Hey, I've been a fan of the RX-7 for a long time. All I'm saying is the RX-7 is like any other specialty car; prices go up, prices go down. Values have trended positive the last several years but that's not to say values won't trend negative the next few. |
Values are not going to trend negative unless we have another huge economy meltdown and I don't think the nice examples will be hit very hard this time. You can only get one other car that is more for the money right now and that is the C5 Z06. It lacks the classic looks(though I actually like them) and rarity of the FD. The next step up in car is a 996 turbo(but everyone knows its not a 997 due to the headlights)C6 ZO6, and Viper. You go from dropping high teens to low 20s on a FD or C5 Z06 straight into the upper 30s, that is a big leap. I won't even comment on Supra prices as I don't consider it a superior car though I do really like them, their prices are just comical to me but at the same time I understand it.
Finding a nice FD is difficult, finding a really nice low mileage one without a story is extremely hard. Almost every FD I see is a restoration project or priced in the mid to high 20K range because that is the current value for a no headache car. There are exceptions to every rule but the value as a whole is definitely on an incline. |
Well, I guess I will chime in here on this subject without turning this into a economic/political post. All I can say is there is different segments of the FD market place from a price point perspective we all know that. In order for someone to get top dollar money for one of these cars whether modified or not it has to be sold by a trusted member of the community. The FD market whether it is sales or service is a niche market. Not many people want to touch these cars let alone sell them, it is a cult car. Values in my opinion will most likely go up but probably not as high as an NSX or a supra. FWIW if the values go real high (like 40-60K) how many people will actually drive these cars anymore as opposed to leaving them in a garage?
|
Originally Posted by 2-Rotor
(Post 11861033)
Values in my opinion will most likely go up but probably not as high as an NSX or a supra.
Just a few years ago people were saying that Japanese cars will never bring money and we all know how that is going. As an extreme example *cough* Toyota 2000gt *cough* lol |
Originally Posted by VTECthis
(Post 11860829)
Gmonsen, everything I've read would make me suggest that those numbers should be cut in half for an accurate estimate, but that's only my opinion. I think a few years ago, someone with insurance/dmv type access determined that around 6 thousand were registered in the US. Again, not sure if those numbers were actually verified, or rumor. With as many of these cars that are raced/modified beyond repair/ruined/crashed, combined with the lack of qualified mechanics and the increasing difficulty in finding parts/engines, I'd say that these cars, especially those in good running order, are going to be exceedingly rare in the next 10 years. Nevermind stock vehicles.
I'd say there are max 5000 decent running driving FDs in the US VTEC like a lot of current FD owners has returned to the FD because he knows it's an exceptional car in every sense of the word. I think there a still quite of few owners who don't understand what they own because they haven't driven many other sports cars or the FD they own isn't setup and running properly etc.... I'll repeat find me a low mileage nice fd as described by Hagerty's definition of what a green group car is for less the 20k and I'll either buy it or pick it apart. The graph is way off the mark. That dealer in DC paid 28k for that SSM car (funny I offered the owner that exact amount when it was listed on EBAY) do you really think a dealer pays that much for a 20 plus year old car that isn't a classic. COME ON MAN there is no arguing this car is a classic today and anyone who denies this or doesn't grasp this especially if they own the damn car is simply not in touch with reality.
Originally Posted by gmonsen
(Post 11860822)
VTECthis... As an older guy here that bought his first FD new as a middle-aged guy, I started moving that way a while ago. I went with an NA 3 rotor in a car that looks very stock and often wish I had simply kept my 18,000 mile '93 R1 totally stock. I haven't kept up with how many of these are on the road and of those how many might be clean, stock, low mile fairly pristine cars. Fritz has a better handle on that, I'm sure. I doubt there are more than 10,000 of these registered and on the road out of the 15,000 brought over here. If 2,000 are still stock of those, I would think its a high number. Of those, may 500 are low mile pristine cars at most. You've done the math already apparently. :-)
Mazderati... I'm beginning to think I remember you from some time ago. Most stockholders are passive pension funds investing for workers. Most of the rest are longer term investments. Margins are more conservative than ever. Very very few investors are leveraged in the sense you suggest it. The upper 2-5% of the country is doing very very well and they survived the last home price downturn. While I think we are headed for a recession, I do not believe that the top end is going to be effected much at all. It frankly seldom is. Lastly, how do you jump to the opinion that those who have money in some downturn are going to pass over the FD for something else? Did you read VTECthis' post? Amazingly, smart, well-off people are actually capable of appreciating the unique, outstanding beauty and performance of Japan's finest sports. Apparently, more so than some owners? Can we stop the doom and gloom? G |
Originally Posted by gmonsen
(Post 11861073)
and, (cough) that pristine CYM you drive. ;-)
G I don't really care about resale of my car in particular (but I do care for FD's overall). I am not one of those types that does everything possible to give the car the most value. Screw that I bought it for myself to enjoy myself! I'm not a storage facility keeping it nice for the next guy.... |
Thanks G. Coming from you that means a lot :bigthumb:
|
I am not saying that the FD is not a special car. I know that its value should be a lot higher than it is but lets face the facts people not everyone knows how to work on them or wants to deal with the needs of a rotary engine. A high percentage of people who bought these cars I would be willing to bet had owned an RX-7 in the past. This is why I say it is a cult car. Some people love them and understand how to maintain them and operate them. I personally do not care what the values do they can go up, down, sideways, I am still keeping mine.
|
Originally Posted by 2-Rotor
(Post 11861643)
I am not saying that the FD is not a special car. I know that its value should be a lot higher than it is but lets face the facts people not everyone knows how to work on them or wants to deal with the needs of a rotary engine. A high percentage of people who bought these cars I would be willing to bet had owned an RX-7 in the past. This is why I say it is a cult car. Some people love them and understand how to maintain them and operate them. I personally do not care what the values do they can go up, down, sideways, I am still keeping mine.
I actually hope the values stay below 50k (or don't go crazy) because I enjoy driving the car so as the value goes higher I will feel silly daily driving it and end up putting a cover on it and daily driving a cayman or something. |
Originally Posted by gmonsen
(Post 11861239)
Fritz... I don't know if you remember the crap I took at the time when I started saying just before the recession that prices were going to go up, because it was a classic, but I took a lot of it. I also agree that many FD owners likely don't appreciate what they have for the reasons you stated. The FD was a modern day Lotus Elite and few appreciated the early Lotuses. I don't think any other sports car has remained beautiful in a current sense and competitive performance wise for 25 years other than the FD. And, the performance even a relatively stock FD provides is still exciting and in the top leagues ignoring exotics. Its Lotus-like sophistication, light weight, and silent rotary are remarkable.
G We've both taken a lot of crap over the classic car statement but clearly the car is currently a classic and there's no denying that or it would be selling for 5k max instead of 15 to 20k for a decent car (more than I paid for my 1st FD in 1999) and 25k plus for a very nice low mileage car and the values have gone up 2k minimum the last 5 years and I expect another 2 to 10k leap in the coming 5 years. Bottomline: For all the naysayers it's time to admit you were wrong, that this car is a classic and the values are not going to go down. If you disagree post here and we can bump this thread in five years when a low mileage FD is still selling for 30k or even 40k :egrin: |
It's basic economics..... supply vs. demand. As time goes by, less and less FDs will be available. Certainly less pristine low-mile stockish FDs.
Mazda didn't sell many of them to begin with----compare production numbers to any other sport car and you'll raise your eyebrows. Chevy produced over 37,000 Corvettes last year alone, for example. |
Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
(Post 11861832)
It's basic economics..... supply vs. demand. As time goes by, less and less FDs will be available. Certainly less pristine low-mile stockish FDs.
Mazda didn't sell many of them to begin with----compare production numbers to any other sport car and you'll raise your eyebrows. Chevy produced over 37,000 Corvettes last year alone, for example. There is and there always will be a demand for great sports cars and the FD is a one of the greats. |
Originally Posted by Fritz Flynn
(Post 11861747)
Bottomline: For all the naysayers it's time to admit you were wrong, that this car is a classic and the values are not going to go down. If you disagree post here and we can bump this thread in five years when a low mileage FD is still selling for 30k or even 40k :egrin:
From Jan 2009 (six years ago):
Originally Posted by Montego
(Post 8916082)
There is no doubt in my mind that the FD will be a collectible car. Those of you that disagree well you are entittled to your opinion, but I believe that one day you will say "I used to own one of those cars, look how much they go for now...should had kept it". I can't tell you how many times I've heard older dudes say that exact phrase about camaros, mustangs, GTOs... BTW when you say it you can think of me :)
& Feb 2010:
Originally Posted by Montego
(Post 9832323)
So if one day it truly becomes a collectible, I wont be surprised one bit. I'm keeping my car forever... So I really dont care how much money it brings other than to say to all those who sold theirs: "I told you so" :)
|
I think the only thing that puts a kink to a potential rapid rising sale values of the FD is the rotary itself. It serves as a double edge sword as, despite the chassis's looks, the engine makes it even more unique and rare but on the downside from the people I talk to (including many car enthusiasts) 95% of drivers out there are just plain scared of the rotary. And that percentage will only get higher with time as these engines age and/if builders become scarce.
Take the rx8 for an example, from my research I've found that Mazda improved on that chassis in practically every way over the FD. It's only downsides are it's looks (in comparison to the FD), and so many renesis failures. Now they are selling for less than FC prices already...a chassis that can potentially outhandle the FD, all because of the bad rep from the motor. Also look at the Supra. Great looking car, poo for interior IMO. Absolutely solid motor which is most of the reason why they sell for so much...although I do agree that their prices are too a little inflated for what you get. In conclusion to my rant, if the FD were accompanied by a rotary motor that never gained a bad rep I have no doubt in my mind they would be selling for 30-40k right now with ease. But people don't want to pay too much money for a car that potentially will need a lot of maintenance, and won't have anyone nearby who can do it unfortunately. |
^^
Take for example this 1955 VW bus that just recently broke a record by fetching $235,000: http://assets.blog.hemmings.com/wp-c...-h-700x438.jpg Yes a VW bus... Now lets stop and think about the practicality of the bus - Unreliable and very finicky. Rule of thumb in owning an air cooled VW (I should know I own one): Is to always carry tools because that car will leave you stranded. Maybe not today, not tomorrow but it WILL leave you stranded without a warning. If you think about it RX-7's don't even come close to that mindset. Yeah blowing engines are common occurrence with us but dammit that Rx-7 with the blown engine will still drive you home! - Extremely under-powered. Especially with the buses since they came with the same engine as their much smaller counterparts. A 1955 bus came with 30HP! talk about being under-powered. Got 6 friends and wanna go up a hill? Better be in first gear and have two friends push lol... - Sitting in one literally feels like sitting in tin can. By all accounts an under-powered finicky piece of crap. However, a piece of crap that many love. As it brings nostalgia of family outings, road trips, vacations, and even memories of being broken down on the side of the road that somehow bring a smile. http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/05/autos/vw-bus-auction/ With that being said, I never prescribed to the notion of it's a rotary and therefore people will be deterred from it in the future. Collectible cars are not about practicality (or in rotary terms reliability) because they are not purchased for everyday drivers. Rather they are purchased because they bring out passion and nostalgia to those that love them. |
Originally Posted by rx7 SE
(Post 11861932)
I think the only thing that puts a kink to a potential rapid rising sale values of the FD is the rotary itself. It serves as a double edge sword as, despite the chassis's looks, the engine makes it even more unique and rare but on the downside from the people I talk to (including many car enthusiasts) 95% of drivers out there are just plain scared of the rotary. And that percentage will only get higher with time as these engines age and/if builders become scarce.
Take the rx8 for an example, from my research I've found that Mazda improved on that chassis in practically every way over the FD. It's only downsides are it's looks (in comparison to the FD), and so many renesis failures. Now they are selling for less than FC prices already...a chassis that can potentially outhandle the FD, all because of the bad rep from the motor. Also look at the Supra. Great looking car, poo for interior IMO. Absolutely solid motor which is most of the reason why they sell for so much...although I do agree that their prices are too a little inflated for what you get. In conclusion to my rant, if the FD were accompanied by a rotary motor that never gained a bad rep I have no doubt in my mind they would be selling for 30-40k right now with ease. But people don't want to pay too much money for a car that potentially will need a lot of maintenance, and won't have anyone nearby who can do it unfortunately. I can't wait to drive my FD home tonight and that's after 15 years of driving them. If I daily drove any other sports car I doubt I'd still feel the same way 15 years later and that alone says just how special this little car is. |
I don't know if reliability is going to be a factor or not, considering that some of the great sports cars of the past were complete pieces of junk mechanically. Jaguar, Ferrari, early porsches, Lamborghinis, etc. The main thing about some of these cars, is that when they are running correctly, there is little else like them out there, similar to the FD.
|
I'd add that the rotary makes the car. 5k gets you a rebuilt motor. I just paid 4k for a trans for my wife's car. I'd say all in all engines aren't crazy expensive. I hope values go up so someday I can recoup all I spent on fb's over the last 20 years.
|
Originally Posted by gmonsen
(Post 11861961)
now, almost all the people on the forum/list have modded their cars beyond collectibility."
The problem is, some of the cars have been modified very poorly/tastelessly. Tacky, awful body kits, poor or messy turbocharger installations, battery relocations. Gaudy interiors done cheaply. Bad wiring. Ebay parts, gauges sprouting out of the interiors, terrible wheels added. Fart can exhausts. Fast & furious parts from China, plasti-dipped things, etc. I can't talk. But the fact is, you would not slap an Ebay body kit onto a 1969 Dodge Charger or a Porsche 911. What makes it okay to desecrate the FD? if you're going to make a track-only race car, fine, chop one to death and live with your choice (please choose a low spec or basket case car for this purpose though :blush: ) But the real collectability is in the restored, low mileage cars which have been well maintained. They will ride the price wave the best. If I don't have one in a few years (who know what the future will hold) I'd be happy at that point to pay 50 or 65K to get back into one, because there is little else out there like it, and I would NEED an FD in my retirement years. |
This is the reason why I save every factory part I take off my car. And any mod I do, I make sure to make it 100% reversible. Just in case my grand-grand-grand-son decides to bring it back to stock form, at which point I wont care as I'll be dead, he at least wont have to spend years searching for old FD parts haha, they'll all be stored in the garage. That 'lil bastard better not sell it! :lol:
|
I've owned 2 MKIV Supra's and I can't tell you why their valued so high. People like the idea of a reliable car that can put out astronomical numbers at the dyno. Most of them are accident cars and Targa tops which are awful and creek over every little bump on the road.
I always find myself coming back to an FD. I haven't gone the NSX route because dollar for dollar I'd rather have something faster. Plus there's so many better cars in the market for that kind of price. E92 M3, Porsche Cayman and Lotus Elise. With the FD there really isn't much in the price range of 13-18k. All I can think of are Scion FRS or Mustangs. I think the reason why FD's don't pull the premium like the NSX or the Supra is because of the reliability stigma behind it. I can see FD's going for less their aging and there's a lot of backyard specials. To find a well sorted FD is very hard and personally I wouldn't pay more than 18k for any FD. Unless we're talking low mileage and I mean low mileage care like less than 40k R1 SSM/CYM that's it. I've owned 2 FD's and I'm in the market for a 3rd but it's difficut finding a good one. That doesn't mean i'll pay more when I do because of supply and demand. A product needs to be a good product to command a premium price. NSX's and Supra's are more reliable than a wood burning stove and FD's aren't even close as far as fit and finish. Performance wise they blow them out of the water. But from a third party standpoint people think i'm nuts for wanting one again. |
Originally Posted by Montego
(Post 11861957)
^^
Take for example this 1955 VW bus that just recently broke a record by fetching $235,000: http://assets.blog.hemmings.com/wp-c...-h-700x438.jpg Yes a VW bus... Now lets stop and think about the practicality of the bus - Unreliable and very finicky. Rule of thumb in owning an air cooled VW (I should know I own one): Is to always carry tools because that car will leave you stranded. Maybe not today, not tomorrow but it WILL leave you stranded without a warning. If you think about it RX-7's don't even come close to that mindset. Yeah blowing engines are common occurrence with us but dammit that Rx-7 with the blown engine will still drive you home! - Extremely under-powered. Especially with the buses since they came with the same engine as their much smaller counterparts. A 1955 bus came with 30HP! talk about being under-powered. Got 6 friends and wanna go up a hill? Better be in first gear and have two friends push lol... - Sitting in one literally feels like sitting in tin can. By all accounts an under-powered finicky piece of crap. However, a piece of crap that many love. As it brings nostalgia of family outings, road trips, vacations, and even memories of being broken down on the side of the road that somehow bring a smile. VW Bus sells for a groovy $235,000 - Dec. 5, 2014 With that being said, I never prescribed to the notion of it's a rotary and therefore people will be deterred from it in the future. Collectible cars are not about practicality (or in rotary terms reliability) because they are not purchased for everyday drivers. Rather they are purchased because they bring out passion and nostalgia to those that love them. |
Originally Posted by rx7 SE
(Post 11861932)
Take the rx8 for an example, from my research I've found that Mazda improved on that chassis in practically every way over the FD. It's only downsides are it's looks (in comparison to the FD), and so many renesis failures. Now they are selling for less than FC prices already...a chassis that can potentially outhandle the FD, all because of the bad rep from the motor.
i'm actually disappointed i haven't had to do an engine yet, its like drinking your first beer, or you first kiss or something,
Originally Posted by Montego
(Post 11861957)
- Unreliable and very finicky. Rule of thumb in owning an air cooled VW .
my brother has a 1985 golf, and it is the worst car ever. not only is it totally unreliable, but if you think finding someone to work on the FD is hard, try an 80's vw, mechanics literally run away from it |
Originally Posted by rx7 SE
(Post 11862278)
The poor success of the Rx8...
|
Originally Posted by j9fd3s
(Post 11862391)
that is a good way to put it, they made 266,000 Rx8's in a 9 year model run. the NC miata has also been around for 9 years, and they have sold ~50,000 of them.
|
Originally Posted by rx7 SE
(Post 11862402)
Going to need you to site your source for that one.
Mazda RX-8 Sales Figures - GOOD CAR BAD CAR Mazda MX-5 Miata Sales Figures - GOOD CAR BAD CAR i've got about ~79,000 miatae vs 73k Rx8's in the US. i can't find a global number for the NC miata. |
Originally Posted by Narfle
(Post 11860401)
It's relatively rare that an FD leaves an owner nicer than it got to them. I'm trying myself, it's hard. Time, money, whatever.
|
Originally Posted by gmonsen
(Post 11863260)
When 00SPEC and Narfle talk about how FD's leave their owners in worse shape than when they bought them its very interesting.
G Though, I think this was a much more relevant statement in the previous decade---these cars are so rare now...and kids are ruining S2000's now instead :nod: regardless, valid points u make! |
Originally Posted by 00SPEC
(Post 11865325)
I believe actually, we meant that FD Owners rarely part with the car in better condition than when they received it, generally of course.
Though, I think this was a much more relevant statement in the previous decade---these cars are so rare now...and kids are ruining S2000's now instead :nod: regardless, valid points u make!
Originally Posted by gmonsen
(Post 11865334)
00SPEC... I would say the kids were like a locust plague.
G |
Bump from the dead....
So with the FD getting close to 25 years old I suppose we're going to start seeing imported RHD cars from Japan/Australia etc...has anyone considered how this will effect the resale value of the US models as the newer imported models start to hit the states? |
| All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:27 AM. |
© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands