RX7.Pilot

iTrader: (8)

considering what you’re gaining small price. The only realistic thing I would count as a wrong would be the OEM fan shroud being too low. I placed my order with Chips to remedy the problem. The koyo dual pass. With the low profile full shrouding and Spal fans. With that kit, you gain all the clearance you need, and then some. You could also do I do it yourself and use the radiator zip attachments I’ve seen to mount a cooling fan.

R-R-Rx7

iTrader: (24)

I have been living with the HKS VMOUNT for 12-13 years now… so let me give you some real feedback not the bs stuff you read online and no its not a small price to pay. It is a poor system overall

the fans hang incredibly low you will destroy the stock fans in the first issue on the street. Consider that a guarantee.
the concept behind the hks is nice. Use any OEM Style radiator and be done, in reality things are a little more complicated than that… the brackets to mount the fans on the opposite side is just a very poor solution.
i would much rather if HKS offered a real radiator with both the inlet and outlet on the same side, change the radiator angle so you get more ground clearance or have provisions for aftermarket fans with a plug and play solution… that aint the case either… i would have gladly paid a grand on top of the current retail price if the kit from HKS was an actual completed kit…


for Aftermarket fans:

the fans through the radiator with that BS zip tie garbage does not work. You need the fan shroud for that to be efficient

the chips motorsport places the fan shroud in the wrong location for the hks kit. Whether he would weld it on the opposite i dont know
But the 800cfm fans that he offers, despite calling them 3000cfm is not enough…
on the same token , everytime you need a new radiator you will rely on chips to make you a new radiator/shroud setup?

you cant get a proper intake

the a/c lines , as they are part of the kit, is a poor design

The intercooler inlet tubing it is almost a guarantee that you will interfere with the hood unless you use a manifold that places the turbo low

the core itself its prone to failure on highboost applications

it is not a 800hp core as you said before, it is a 500ps according to HKS.

the power steering loop is replaced with a hose?

the battery tray weighs a ton and its built
like a tank.. fuseboxes etc mount on to it. Relocate the battery and then everything hangs like a limp dick .. sure you can zip tie everything together… so much for a “kit”

the bracket that relocates the the diagnostics plug and the other things could have been stiffer so it doesnt just bend with no effort..

front relay box does not fit on current mounting holes and you have no access to it unless you remove the bumper…

the list goes on

RX7.Pilot

iTrader: (8)

Glad to hear of your experience. A friend also has one both the Greddy and the HKS on 2 different cars and it I would say the Greddy it is 35-38% smaller IC core then the HKS R but easier to install. It still has some things that will need to be dealt with like power steering lines on your own and a few other things so it also is not 100% bolt on. For those that want 100% it will be this U Type IC in the stock location. For those that want the biggest IC every stuffed into an RX7 then the HKS R is the only way until there discontinued.

I understand some people can't or are unable to do some things inherent to modding unless it is bolt on. If you want the best WORK OF ART that that belong in a museum IC then the HKS R is it and will never be another like it. There is no substitute period. Only HKS could pull of the feat of making something this intricate and complex. These were made for JDM cars and not our US spec and there were difference over the years and regions so it's no surprise there will be issues to install especially with this many variables . ALL can be overcome with a competent capable person.


Thanks for the info on the fans. I'll let Chips knows to flip it or leave it off. If not then it is not difficult for me to re do it my self and weld it. I plan to clean up all the welds on the KOYO NFlow anyway because I'm not a big fan of welds anyway. Then will do black thermal dismemberment coating on the whole unit as well. So he SPAL fans on the Chips look to be 12" pullers and those are rated 1451CFM so both at 2902CFM. SPAL does make HO 1851CFM 12" but it will stick out almost 1" the fan being 4.39" thick. The one on Chips is 3.46" thick. Now there all kinds of claims of stock fan CFM 2300-2800 online. We will never know but I guarantee this fan will beat out the stock Mazda fan. SPAL is an OEM Tier 1 supplier and performance aftermarket. Been around since 1959 and you will see there fans on many cars like Ferrari or Lamborghini and others. Anyhow so this setup will have much more clearance then OEM fans and will solve the most important issue. If you don't have a way to make a shroud or don't want the Chips or cash, then SPAL has a locking METAL zip tie with a bracket, made to pass thew and lock to the radiator core. This can work of coarse not as good as a full shroud but work in a pinch. The pull fans as you know are effective in slow or no motion but once in motion air velocity takes over.

Here is a quote from a Aussie forum. "This is an HKS V-Mount kit installed on my FD. It is a very comprehensive kit. There was no need to modify or manufacture anything for it to fit. However, if you have a non-OEM radiator you could have fitment issues."

This was from installed from a 1992 RHD JDM car.

About the 800HP I mentioned, I had clarified that I thought it was 800HP because the dimensions are the same in other applications that run the same size HKS R Core that guys were running big boost and HP. One of the EVO guys was running 46psi threw his IC no failure. There was only 1 reporter here and on the EVO forum from the tube swelling. From my research I suspect it was only certainly early cores that had this issue because I saw no issues from guys that had bought from 2010+. HKS would have heard about this and corrected it log ago form the home market of Japanese tuners.

The battery tray is robust because of the dynamic weight it is carrying with a heavy battery and anything else attached. Here is a great video on the install and installer says he didn't have to fab anything to install but against JDM car. He complained about the really box zip tie like you. I'll make an aluminum bracket once I get to that point.

With HKS lower price and the yen to usd such a great rate, you can get one looks like around $1700-1800 shipped.

R-R-Rx7

iTrader: (24)

I suppose the incapable incompetent person who only likes the bolt on stuff is addressed to me…

You obviously did not see what i did with my system or what i do with my car. I am not going to take any offense into your statement as i really dont care enough to continue this. you are fully blinded by the HKS VMOUNT and how “incredible” it is just because of the core size and how hks was ballsy enough to do this or whatever else you said in your own words.

it is a poor system. I have optimized mine probably better than anyone’s but out of the box it is a poor system…
For what its worth my car is also a JDM car… but because someone said he didnt have to modify anything, which is a lie, it doesnt mean that the system is good…

ZE Power MX6

iTrader: (157)

I don't run AC so didn't have to do a thing to the GReddy Vmount, just bolt on and go... did I miss something?

Natey

iTrader: (19)

This thread is now about HKS V-mounts and what you read on the internet.

RX7.Pilot

iTrader: (8)

No I would not suppose that at all. Firstly I said nothing of incompetency. Secondly you have already figure it out and installed it.

Your right I have not seen it? Did you do install thread on the V mount? Will you still keep the system after 13-14 years or replace with a different kit?

True I am blinded by fine works of art with that V mount and the RX7.

I don't think that guy on the video is lying but anything is possible. He does show the install each way threw. I'm speculating but there is a good chance HKS has revised this kit since you bought it? Did you buy it new or used? If we go back 14 years to 2010 HKS would have manufactured in bulk and could have been made years before you bought it. It may have been updated since then?

RX7.Pilot

iTrader: (8)

Ok lets talk about your Bltiz SMIC. How were able to make 551hp when it's not rated for that?

If I went SMIC I would do this PWR for sure. Looks nice with the curve transition on the bottom and the carbon duct looks very nice as well.

Neutron

iTrader: (10)

I believe @GucciBravo is producing a true bolt in full v-mount kit that is the real deal. A complete kit that is fully ducted, properly sized and will actually be rated for high hp turbocharged Rotary. To be honest, nothing available is truly complete and sized for even a modestly modified single turbo rotary.

TwinCharged RX7

iTrader: (14)

I would recommend that kit, even if it doesn't turn out to be vaporware.


Regarding the HKS kit, not sure why it's being viewed as art or a meuseum piece, or the "biggest IC ever stuffed in an rx7". It's not. It's a kit from a famous Japanese tuner company. That is cool if you want it, but far from the best option out there.

RX7.Pilot

iTrader: (8)

Show me the intercooler setup and I'll show you the crime.

Nothing on the market currently or in the past that keeps under hood battery location, with AC, with no cutting of stock bumper the best separation of air to the radiator and intercooler without passing threw each other.

Then the quality of the welds and other ascetics like the piping being mandrel and not weld so as much. If your building a track car or all out performance and are not looking for certain important factors that other people would be looking for in a very clean OEM+ type setup.

There nothing that can touch the HKS overall for those that are looking for the largest quality V mount every made for the FD for those looking to stay clean and OEM + as possible, It truly is a master piece. With parts being discontinued, it's days are number. I had to buy another with how low the price is with the Yen.

TwinCharged RX7

iTrader: (14)

I mean if you put all those situational constraints on it then yes, there are not many options and it is a nice large core. Remove the constraints and you have a lot more options. To say it's a museum piece is though is a bit different.

For example, I have a 900hp (piston rating) core from Garrett with cast end tanks, welded nicely. I will absolutely push it past the rating and it will be fine (just not as efficient as a properly rated core would be, but space is a limitation and I don't want to cut my front end more than I have already.

Also I see I made a rather big typo in my previous comment. I meant "would NOT recommend that other kit even if it doesn't turn out to be vaporware". Would definitely go for the HKS or others over it despite the legit issues mentioned, and fix the issues.

silverTRD

iTrader: (37)

I’m in the market for a SMIC. I’d be interested in a blitz, greddy, or this one. But I’m not down to wait over a year for one with delays on ducting or whatever the reason is. I’m tired of dealing with flaky rotary vendors.

TwinCharged RX7

iTrader: (14)

I have this knightsports if interested. I bought it used and have not installed myself but looks in good shape, could use a good cleaning.

boostin13b

I was kind of thinking about this too but it makes me feel better seeing the hot air from the turbos passes through the rear core first, then the cooler front core before entering the intake. Not sure if it works out any better either way from a heat transfer aspect (I've been out of school for some time and would have to dig out my Thermodynamics book) but from a purely intuitive standpoint without any real math, I would think it would function better this way. When its time to grab mine, I'm either going to get this PWR intercooler or the Knightsports one. Purely from a Aesthetics standpoint I want a carbon fiber duct to match my AutoEXE intake and with the Knightsports I would have to make one which would be just another learning process and time I don't have, I would probably have somebody that works with carbon just cover the one that comes with it.

RX7.Pilot

iTrader: (8)

It's still better then a single row SMIC. The Knigtports is not as good as the PWR. I had one from the 1990/2000 and the welding was the worst. They got better later but also the PWR has a nicer round bottom for the air to flow and the carbon duct so your done and overall looks better made.

RX7.Pilot

iTrader: (8)

Is 100% is a museum piece no question. I wish there was a better one so I can call that the museum peace but there is not. The V mount is best mount because the two heat exchangers are getting fresh air rather then like your front mount were one will get it then heat pass threw the radiator.

Garret is a top quality core but Bar and Plate which is not the best way to go especially in a front over a good tube and fin. The Bar and Plate once heat soaked takes a lot longer to recover. The Tube and Fin recovers much faster and also has less pressure dropped. The Bar and Plate is much heavier. Good video youtube from HPAcadamy and Plazmaman on it. Also, Plazmaman makes the best front mount and is Tube and Fin but no mentioned of AC on it and it has a much longer pipe run over the V mount. I don't care for that look with the pipe my self and also like your setup you have to cut the bumper and MOST of the core is blocked on the front mount. Thank god for the HKS R kit! Full flow and all the benefits mentions down to the high quality intricate pieces BUT yes if you have a non Denso AC your going to do some fiddling but it can be done.

BTW do you still have AC? Any complete set of pics of your IC system?

Greddy other then being smaller then HKS is very nice top quality kit but the other issue is how the IC sitting. The core flat so the air passing threw is obstructed some by the hood were as the HKS R is not and gets a lot more flow.

TwinCharged RX7

iTrader: (14)

Sorry but you are making statements based on opinion vs actual tested facts. FMIC work fine when properly sized and ducted, it's been proven many times. Most that fail have poor ducting (if any) or improper sizing of components. I was merely referring to the size of intercooler needed for high horsepower, not trying to turn this into a FMIC vs VMIC. Both can work if done properly. Yes I will have AC.

Good luck with your "museum" piece. Let me know when it's on display in the Smithsonian and I'll be sure to check it out.

RX7.Pilot

iTrader: (8)

Sure it works. I have one on my Supra but there are pros and cons as you know. On the Supra that is pretty much the way to go. Tube and Fin for sure because of the guys that ran bar and plate had issues from what they had posted in the past. It certainly works on the RX7 as well but if your keeping the stock bumper you need to cut it and only half the core will be exposed to air. Since your running a bar and plate, you need to see if that will restrict flow to much to the radiator as you know the air first must pass threw the IC then the AC condenser (usually in that order) then the radiator. Figure out the mounting and AC lines. If temps are an issue and then you have to run the largest oil cooler you can with a nice setup and if it's still an issue then you need to go to a tube and fin core to allow more flow.

This is the best front mount kit I have seen. https://plazmaman.com/product/rx-7-s...tercooler-kit/

"Plazmaman developed special external fin spacing, which allows maximum air flow onto the radiator in both street and circuit applications."

It can work and so on but yes in my opinion on this application with the space we have it is better to run a good V mount unless you need more intercooling and have to run a large front mount. With the V mount you can then separate it the radiator flow from the IC. How could you do it with the front? Pull the IC back and till it maybe if there is space and run a duct to it and then to the radiator ?? You would have to mount the radiator in the engine compartment I would think? Don't see another place to fit? You have more piping so a bit more lag and heat soaking time. Anyhow good luck and let us know how it turns out?

I going to have 2 on display at the Smithsonian

Natey

iTrader: (19)

Hey hey hey! Stop trying to make this thread about U-Type SMICs!

lol jk. That thing looks like it's nice and clean, and it's a rarity for sure. GLWS

TwinCharged RX7

iTrader: (14)

I don't get the part about tube and fin being needed on a front mount. I agree that it is more efficient cooling for the charge air. But just as much air passes through a bar and plate to reach the radiator, or at least not a meaningful difference.

Stock bumper? That is long gone. Also remember that a heat exchanger does not need a massive opening. Opening of the duct should be roughly 1/3 of the area of the heat exchanger due to all the room taken by either the bars or tubes depending which one you have. That's why race cars have relatively small openings to keep the drag down while still getting airflow.

RX7.Pilot

iTrader: (8)

You won't know for sure until you try it. Keep us in the loop on how it goes if you don't mind. Personally for the reasons mentioned I would run tube and fin.

Very good videos on the subject.

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

Here is my experience on the 2 above mentioned v-mounts

HKS v-mount - Ground clearance issues, Extremely inefficient core, Heat soaks very quickly in traffic under idle conditions , at 570HP at the wheels (Car went 9.7@137MPH) air temps start at 40 deg c(Was actually 24-25 deg C when the car was started but between idling and short burnout it made the starting temp 40 deg C), Intake air temp was 95 deg C by the end of the run

Greddy V-mount - Really hard to fault this kit, provides cavity for intake, comes with quality radiator, does not have ground clearance issues, the Limit for this intercooler is just over 650HP at the wheels, I have found over this power level you start to get really large swings in temperature under boost

Of course the above testing relates to street driving, roll racing, drag racing

V-mount layout really lends itself to continuous movement style events i.e tracking racing and they work REALLY well in those scenario's, they could sustain higher power levels than I have mentioned above assuming your minimum speed was 60-70km/h continious

Goes without saying, this is simply my experience, i've had both v-mount kits in my own FD's as well as many that we have fitted in customer cars and catalogued data over the years

In my experience the best intercooler setup is the one best matched to it's type of usage, in my case I love roll racing, street driving and a little bit of drags, front mount has proven to be the winner here for me and we use very large cores. We essentially use the intercooler as a huge heat sink to absorb heat since in the applications I mentioned they don't really get much air speed till the event is over. Just as an example, for one of our cars making 700HP at the wheels we would use a 600X300X125MM core, we have used that core all the way up to 1100HP

Have not seen a scenario where the temperature swings at all under power, start the run at 28 deg C and end the run on 31-32 deg C

It is also important to note, if you are going to do a front mount, you want the radiator, ac condenser and intercooler to be mounted at the same angle(Straight up with a small air gap seal with form or rubber) to ensure that at speed you are getting fresh air to both condenser and radiator and the car is not 100% reliant on thermo fans to regulate temperature
Cars that retain the OEM radiator positioning and install a front mount intercooler in front of it tend to struggle to maintain temperature at speed.

Hope this helps someone

RX7.Pilot

iTrader: (8)

Thanks for posting your info. Any V mount will do pretty bad in drag racing at the track due to heat soaking and lack of air flow as you mentioned. The location under the hood is very bad for heat when not moving but very good for weight distribution, throttle response and keeping the the radiator much cooler then a front mount. The AC system will also work better. So long as your moving. The faster the better. In Japan the guys that run circuits mostly run the HKS V mount. Here is one that went from front mount to V due to cooling issues. https://www.auto-r.com/sagyou/fd3s/nihksv/nihksv.html Guys that run the HKS on other platforms like EVO in a front mount have made 700hp. Never read on the treads high temps which makes sense with a front mount vs V. Which turbo were you running with the Greddy and HKS? A friend of mine as both 1 on each car and both work well but the HKS definitely recovers faster then Greddy and I don't remember seeing high intake temps either. We were moving though and doing spirited driving and freeway pulls. For the fan issue that can be solved with Spal fans as they are lower profile. The Greddy you have to relocate the batter which is a no go for me in cutting my bins and running wiring but I did see a small battery kit to mount in the engine bay. The HKS already mounts in the engine bay out of the box. Since the Greddy is 35%-40% smaller then the HKS, you have space to put the air filter next to it. Since the HKS is full bay, you need to do some shielding or figuring out on the intake. When in motion it is not an issue but spot light to spot light it can be if you don't shield. The HKS RS intake does help to move to the fender but I will be doing what I can to bring fresh air and shield what I can.

TwinCharged RX7

iTrader: (14)

Evo guys you are referring to make more power with the same intercooler because they are piston motors, they require a lot less air vs a rotary.