RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i'd leave the flaws instead of putting anything over them(except maybe touch up paint).

i dropped a transmission on the passenger side door and took a chunk out of the paint and put a fat dent in it. i left it alone until i get to fixing it, until then i still clean the car as if it weren't there.

TheGoldenSB

iTrader: (1)

Damn way to make me not want to even post on my own thread. There's no need to be a dick rotary evolution I never said I was the all knowing rotary god like you claim to be. I simply wanted to buy an engine and build it and you knock me for it. You started somewhere so let me start somewhere. There are tons of people who have successfully built these engines with little to absolute no good automotive experience. Even if something goes wrong in the process and im out a motor hey I learned something. Not learning anything and having someone else always build my engines isn't getting me any knowledge.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

or you are taking something upon yourself, as apparently it is a sore spot for you. i never named anyone, just went on a tangent, so if you're taking it personally then it must be somehow partially true.

the inevitable truth is these jdm engines are all short lived. you don't buy 25 year old tires and expect them to run on the street for another 10 years. that is exactly how i view these engines, they can't sit on a shelf indefinitely and be expected to go back to work without any complaints after so many years of dis-service. what seals the inside of these engines? rubber.

even if you somehow get lucky to get one of the few not scavenged yet jdm engines that isn't blown, the coolant seals are still on borrowed time even if the cooling system passes a pressure test.

these imported engines are the bottom of the barrel, junk that every other importer passed on. 5-10+ years ago there were piles of them, importers could pick and choose what to take, what you have left is the fat non-athletic kids who no one wants on their team if they want to win.

TheGoldenSB

iTrader: (1)

I apologize rotary evolution i agree with what you were saying i got confused on names and was actually talking about rotary resurrection. The names being similar threw me off. I just did not like how he highlighted my text and called me out just for asking if there was any other little things i should look for when purchasing an engine and saying if i ask that i must not know anything.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

ah ok, yes our names are similar.

TheGoldenSB

iTrader: (1)

So what would you do rotary evolution if you were in my shoes right now? I really want to build something on the side while i continue to run my current turbo motor. I could pick up some new housings and rotors for about 2000-2500 but then i dont have any of the other parts. It really sucks that the rotarys are like animals on the endangered species list. Makes me realize why everyone ends up going v8 or something thats more easily sourceable.

wthdidusay82

iTrader: (15)

You could see if car-part.com has anything cheap. I got lucky and got my engine for $250 and all of it was usable except the eshaft and one rotor. Granted it was an s4 engine but deals are out there if you look hard enough.

Rotary > Pistons

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

buy a JDM engine (or other) and rebuild that.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

I guess the truth must hurt.

About 25% of the rx7 work I get comes from people who tore the damn thing apart and either couldn't put it back together, or did and it doesn't work. I do not feel like I am overstating the difficulty of the job for someone who has never done an rx7 before.

I don't care how many 302's or 350's you've worked on, there are more wires, connectors, hoses, tiny little springs and seals, etc. that need attention on this engine than any other production car engine. Just because the rotary only has "3 moving parts", it is not simple to take apart and put back together, because there are about 100 other small parts that are not taken into account in that estimate.

Now if you are the type who has money and time to burn with experiments, then by all means, go right ahead. IF you want to put the damn thing together and have it work with a minimum of head scratching, parts re-replacing, and re-repairing, and you only intend to work on this single car/engine, then I don't see how you can justify going to all the trouble of learning and obtaining the tools and equipment you'd need to do this job.

IF you want your butt kissed then you can rely on the forum kiddies for your technical expertise. IF you want real experience and advice on where the bull sits, you can take the word of precious few people on this forum, and two of them have posted in this thread already. We won't hold your hand or spoon feed you, but we will give you the info you need to get the car fixed right. IF you want to be cocky and arrogant, then stop asking for help and learn it yourself, the way we had to learn back in the day.

This is one of those "if you have to ask, you don't know as much as you think you do" times in life.

TheGoldenSB

iTrader: (1)

I have never came off as cocky or arrogant in this thread. If anything you have. If i was cocky or arrogant i would not have even made a thread cause i would have thought screw it i know anything and everything i dont need to ask any questions lets dive right into it. But the simple thing is i dont and its nice to get a little feedback from strangers. I appreciate the advice you have given me you just came with the wrong attitude and tried to knock me down from the very get go. You pretty much cyber bullied me.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Really?

Seriously?

You don't work in the real world with other humans often, do you?

Dude, if that is actually what you think, I would suggest you go hand out on offtopic or 4chan for a while. Maybe it will thicken your skin a little bit, then you can come back and re-read my posts. Then you will realize that nothing I have said remotely approaches "bullying". At worst I would say it is a moderate dose of reality. However, since you are apparently the sensitive type, I will apologize for "bullying" you on an internet car forum.

TheGoldenSB

iTrader: (1)

That was the only term I could come up with. Going around trying to intentionally put people down. I'm not super sensitive nor am I butt hurt on the subject. Just trying to let you know your the one who comes off as an arrogant *****.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

there is no easy answer, the best thing to do is try to find a low mileage unopened block.

most often when some unknown third party rebuilds an engine i usually find a small list of things wrong that generally cannot easily be undone. porting for one, by amateurs can ruin irons and they can be quite costly to replace. not everything has to be new, but it does take an experienced eye to figure out what will work and well in a rebuild.

and i do agree with Kevin, except i am actually more pessimistic. i find at least half of the DIY rebuilds are not done right, regardless of wrenching experience. i have said it before and i will again, i was a factory tech for 10 years dealing with cars that i knew nothing about every day and took a head on approach to rotary engines my first time. it took me 3 teardowns to sort through all of the problems with my first engine which is still currently in my car. i was also the person that they handed out all the most difficult work to, reconditioning engines that no one else had experience doing first up. these cars will demean and degrade you into being a humble mechanic, which is why most mechanics won't even touch them.

mazda doesn't even allow their dealers to tear apart/rebuild a rotary engine.

if you plan on doing it take all that into account and be prepared that it will be a learning project and should NOT be done to a car you will rely on once completed.

TheGoldenSB

iTrader: (1)

Thanks RotaryEvolution i appreciate the well thought out response. As a fellow technician i know that rarely anything you do for the very first time is easy and goes exactly as planned. I have to do something new at my dealership almost everyday and its always a learning experience. Im lucky to have amazing rotary technicians around me like Jeremy and Mike Lowe that could help with what questions i have and to do the porting for me. As thats something i definitely don't want to do. I definitely do want to try it out as i have disassembled quite a few junk n/a motors and have a good idea of how things work even though assembly vs disassembly is a world of difference. But when it comes time to putting it back together if i don't feel 100% confident with the assembling of the engine i will have someone else build it.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

most of the issue is with parts inspections, faulty parts usually aren't glaring you in the face with these assemblies. the cooling system is obstructed by small passages and rotor clearances not always easy to define due to odd wear patterns.

assembling is the easier part but there are still always little ways to mess up with the assembly process which can have huge issues with the engine. such as pinching oil seals when installing them, or installing apex seal springs that get wedged under the seal and bind

to cure the latter issue i snap the seals apart, install the long seal loosely into the rotor and install the springs after the rotor is placed inside the engine followed by the boot and corner seals.

TheGoldenSB

iTrader: (1)

Yeah i completely agree that would be one of the hardest parts for me is making sure each part is usable and still in factory specs. Like for example if a rotor bearing is on its way out i may not even notice it unless there is a lot of copper showing. I know there is a lot that goes into the build of these engines and a lot to look out for like corner seals falling out of place during assembly, pinching oil seals as you mentioned, apex seals not being placed properly as you mentioned, making sure not to twist the coolant seals, grinding out the side seals to a perfect fit... ect. Any other common mistakes you have seen in some of your builds / teardowns of other peoples builds?

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Most common issues are coolant seals slipped/rolled out of the groove, improper thrust bearing/spacer assembly and endplay inspection, front cover o-rings, and the oil pump key slipping out of place during assembly. All of those will yield a DOA engine as soon as you try to start it up.