i thought that W technically meant vicosocity .. not weight?


so from reading all this... stick with synthetic?? or maybe use a syn blend?

 

i keep hearing about this synthetic vs petroleum based argument. Personally i have sided with dino juice since i change it alsmot every 2000 km anyways... makes no difference.

I plan on putting in the OMP bypass used on airplanes, getting a cold start assist bottle or some other bottle of some sort, put a level sensor, T that into one of the warning lights, and run premix through that and syn in the block itself.

But if you change your oil enough it doesn't matter. Who cares... its only staying in for 2000 kms for me anyways

 

Don't use a 'synth blend' unless you blend yourself. I haven't seen synth blended oils with a clearly labelled percentage ratio on the bottle. They could put a miniscule drop of synth in it and it would be good enough. For example, Pennzane(used by Pennzoil) cost almost $400 a quart. How much do you think is in that $5 quart of synthetic pennzoil oil?

August hotrod mag--10hp gain by switching rearend/trans/engine to synth oil.
If you have a good library and search various import/domestic/4x4 car mags over the past ten years, there are numerous comparisons which is proof enough for me.
Synths always produce more power on dyno. Synth oil also can reduce water temp. Synth wears less(never use for breakin). Synth has a higher film strength(more important than viscosity). Viscosity is the 20w50 users argument for poor film strength which isn't really much of an issue with newer oil. Synth tolerates a wider range of temp(important for T2 owners who could coke/cook a turbo). Synths do not evaporate or thicken as quickly as dino oils. Synth are more slippery(less friction). Synths keep engine sludge free and clean(could be a problem with older engine relying on sludge for compression and oil control).

Synths cost too much. Synths do NOT extend oil change intervals. Synths weep/seep more easily. This is mostly an issue with old/tired seals and not the oils fault. I have never experienced/seen any seal leakage/oil consumption that can be directly blamed on the oil(unless the synth cleaned out the sludge that was acting like a seal). This might have been an issue with synths(20 years ago) that didn't have additives/conditioners because they didn't need them. All new certified synths have seal conditioners to prevent oil control issues.

 

But how many HP was the vehicle starting with, as I don't get Hot Rod anymore???

Just a raw HP number by itself means nothing IMO. Now if it was a 100 HP Civic and it got 10 more HP from reduced driveline loss and engine efficency then I say "HO boy, lets go for it". Thats a nice 10% increase.

But if it is a 300 HP rod and you only gain 10 HP I am saying its a waste of money, because it is about only a 3% increase.

Anyway, its good to see that someone has started backing up the claims of actual performance gains using synthetics. And I highly recommend them for driveline, use, I just can't personally justify the cost as engine oil.

 

I show proof of the HP increase with a reputable source and then someone has to slam it with the word % Maybe '0' percent, maybe 10! It depends on the condition of the engine/trans/rearend.......
Any increase is better than none. Even the $600 RB catback claims an increase in 5-7hp. But this is beyond the scope of this thread.

Use whatever weight and whatever type oil you want and change it whenever you want. I don't care. But, if you want the MOST power possible, use synthetic.

These links show some dyno pulls. This is but a few of the numerous of comparisons in the past 20 years.

http://www.circletrack.com/editorial...=text&id=79838
http://www.circletrack.com/editorial...=text&id=15378

amsoil bragging
http://www.pecuniary.com/synthetics/...dynotests.html

redline bragging
http://www.redlineoil.com/frames/dynotesting.htm

royalpurple bragging
http://www.capt-andy.com/royal/news/power.html

In case you want to use it in your lawnmower
http://www.briggsracing.com/tech_tip...lueprints.html

grassrootsmotorsports
http://www.grmotorsports.com/stock%20tips.html

oil cooled engine benefit
http://www.mklsportster.com/xloil.htm

 

I have to pipe in..
DeadRX7Conv has covered this topic well. I just want/need to add my .02 cents.

If you just drive your car and like buying new ones often. Run dino oil.

If you like your car and like to make it perform and last, treat it like you want it (car) to treat you. I ditch the OMP adn run Premix. This allows me to run synthetics in the crankcase. I run synthetics everywhere else also.

Think of oil like beer. Sure, schlitz and old mil will get you buzzed, but doesn't a nice Microbrew go down soo much smoother and tastes better?

I'm not going to quote a bunch of data, its already been done. But I use to run the Oil Analysis Program for a squadron of 13 FAST ATTACK Nuclear Powered Submarines. Guess what we used? SYNTHETIC. Why? IT WORKS: end of story.

RANT ON:/
If you want to drive a high performance sportscar, treat it like one. Don't use:
CHEAP OIL
Cheap Tires
Cheap Shocks
Cheap Thermostats
Cheap Coolant
Cheap Filters

If you can't afford to maintain the vehicle properly: YOU CAN'T AFFORD THE VEHICLE!!!!
Sell it and buy a moped to drive around.

Rant off!

 

I am not knocking synthetics. As I said:

I am just saying that the .5 to 2 percent increase in HP that Redline, Royal Purple, Grassroots and all the others mention is not cost effective IMO.

Again IMO an estimated $180 annual cost (based on $40 for tranny/diff lube change/1 per year, and 4 oil changes/year) is hardly worth 2 or 3 HP.

But if using it floats your boat, and you have the money to spend on them, then by all means I see nothing wrong with doing so even without going to no OMP and pre-mix. As I mentioned earlier, each and every synthetic I have looked into all have a flash point under 500F, and a equal or lower ash level than any of the conventional oils. Now the Zinc content is lower as well, but the extra durability of the oil should compinsate for that in most cases except for low oil level in the pan.

In other words, I see no reason what so ever based on what the oil companies say is in their synthetics not to use it the same as conventional oil is used in a rotary motor, be it stock or otherwise, except for price.

 

I'm assuming that most people that switched from dyno (20w50) are using 5w30 synth now, right?

Anyone remember how much it affected their oil pressure...???

 

???

 

Hi

I use Red Line 15w-50.
RE-A uses it even for a race cars.

Thanks

 

Must get 15w-50.................
Im ok using non sythetic Castrol 20w-50 for now.

 

W = Winter

Example: 20w-50 = has the viscosity of 20 weight oil during Winter temperatures, and 50 weight at operating temp. ASTM D-445 rates the viscosities at 40 deg C and 100 deg C.

IMO synthetic engine oil isn't worth the money unless you are racing.

 

how much does a quart of oil cost in canada? i mean a liter... i mean, hell i dont know. i was raised with this damn american system of measurement.

 

Higgi isn't in Canada. He's in the Czech Republic.

We pay about $2.50 for 1L of good oil (Castrol). Synthetic is about $5 per L.

 

Syn Blends CAN be a good cost alternative if you buy right. I just bought several cases of Castol 10/30 Syn Blend for $1.75 a quart. So, being a Castrol fan otherwise, I bought more than a couple cases.

I'm in Icemarks camp regarding Synthetics. Synthetics in a drivetrane, a very good thing and easily cost justifies. In the crank case, justifying the much higher cost cost is directly related to the love affair between you and your Rex.

Also, I've read that to mix a bottle of synthetic in Dino Oil of visa versa isn't a good idea weight and brand being the same. Something about blending needs special attention to type and levels of detergents used. So, best to leave blending up to the manufacturer.

 

I am using 20W50 right now. Might change to 10W30 for winter though.

 

It depends on the weather. My beast runs on 20w-50 Castrol. All the racers I have met recommend it!!

 

I'm about to switch to straight 50, damn it's hot around here

 

10w 30 synthetic

 

20W-50

 

I use Valvoline VR1 20w-50. Good stuff. Although I'm contemplating chaning to 10w-30 on my next oil change (next month) for the winter season.

 

15W50 Mobil One, or 20W50 Valvoline SynPower full synthetic...It's what we use in the four rotor, so I think It's safe to use in my T2...

 

My sister also told me to never use 10W40 in any vehicle, for the same viscosity reasons stated above. I actually did read my owner's manual, but the ranges are a little confusing for someone that lives in an area that can experience all four seasons in a week.

Does anyone know why the owner's manual tells you not to use synthetic? I have never seen anything which documents synthetic is better in an actual car engine, when the engine is studied, but I was curious on the command not to use it.

Still confused as to whether it is better to follow the manual for 1988 or have oils changed THAT dramatically in the newer standards?

Hozzmann, if you ever get to Minnesota, I owe you a couple drinks/beers! I was going to ask on the synthetics in the brake box, drivetrain... and you already went there for me!

 

Your sister is right, never use 10W40 in any modern high reving engine.

As far as oil weights, it's pretty straight forward, use 20W50 if you expect your temps when starting and average running to be above 20F and use 10W30 if your engine is expected to be started and run in temps between -10F and 80F
If by chance you see ultra cool weather for long periods of time 5W30 can be used for temps under 30F

Quote:

Does anyone know why the owner's manual tells you not to use synthetic? I have never seen anything which documents synthetic is better in an actual car engine, when the engine is studied, but I was curious on the command not to use it.

As mentioned above in this thread, it is because at the time of publication of the s4 FC manuals the only synthtics available were crap and had ash, deposit and seal issues in a rotary. Now more than 15 years later synthetic oil quality has grown leeps and bounds and the better ones (like redline, Neo, Royal Purple, castrol) can be used with little fear of problems other than the effect on ones pocketbook.

 

10w-30
10w-40
i really cant tell the differ between them