Goodbar6

iTrader: (1)

Wow, i am very impressed! Although i also feel that a good suspension setup could have solved some of your handling issues, i can see how a lighter car can be more fun at times!
Very cool, i want video .

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

lighter is always better

pd_day

iTrader: (6)

you are my new hero!

Icemark

Yeah, the S-AFC is probably next (although I have been also playing with a couple chips for the stock ECU). I keep hopeing that the people here working on chips can solve the run rich at high RPM problem that the stock ECU has.

I am happy with the HP, but would like to bring the torque up. That just may not be possible without doing more porting work

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

and I ask again,
could you sepcify which engine you used? Rotors and the rest?

Icemark

Ah, I thought I mentioned that in the first post,

Non turbo S4 block and Rotors. Mazda seals (except oil) and gaskets.

I was considering using the S5 Turbo rotors, but it doesn't gain anything in RPM over the S4 non turbo rotors.

other mods:
13 lb Flywheel
S5 turbo Alt
Flow matched and calibrated injector pairs
timing slightly advanced
Slightly ported throttle body without secondary set of plates
K&N cone air filter and custom alum cold air box (which actually feeds cold air from the big ol' hole behind the passengers headlight left from when I had the FMIC and turbo motor)
knightsports knock off chip (next too useless, I am just to lazy to pull it back out) It is supposed to lean out in the upper RPM
left over boost/vac gauge (now I am just watching vac- but I had it on there when I had the turbo motor).
And redline superlight gear oil in the tranny and rear end (an honest 2 or 3 HP back, just there).
4.101 rear end with clutch type LSD

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

you didn't do anything extra?
Race rotor barings... and / or the likes of that?

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

on our race car (e6x haltech in the stock ecu case with stock wiring/sensors) we were able to broaden out the power peak by a good 500rpm by playing with the timing

do you have a header on there?

Icemark

Nope, just used the stock bearings... they were in fine shape.

The motor had been overheated (the previous owner had just blocked off the thottle body coolant feed instead of routing it back to the front, and then I guess drove the thing to death) but internally was in great condition once the plates were lapped.

Icemark

Bonz pre-silencer and main cat. Being a convertible, Noise and emissions were a high priority.

Looks like this :


And I have been considering the Haltech or another ECU, but have been concerned with passing emissions (and my wife is getting tired of me spending everything I make on this car).

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

I am currious as to why you didn't use s5 NA rotors, they would net you more torque and power, would they not?

Icemark

2 reasons:

I was concerned with detonation. Using the S4 ECU
and
I couldn't find anyone on the west coast that had a good set and didn't want an arm and leg for them.

The only big advantage I saw in using them would be the 8K redline. The HP increase from the extra compression really is pretty small. You are only jumping from 9.0:1 to 9.7:1

Its not like the jump you would get from a piston motor jumping from 8.6 to 10:1 (as I did back on my old RA64 Celica).

ultradef

Wow, impressive numbers, congrats. Most people with similar mods (except for the extrude honed intake) make ~20-25 hp less. Would you attribute all that power difference to the extrude honing? If so, thats impressive and definitely something people should look into in the future. What kind of gains would you expect from a similarly extrude honed TII intake? Definitely seems worth the money, especially for you NA guys...

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

wow those are really nice #'s without a header!

um bascially the stock emissions system uses the air pump, acv and main cat, and 2 solenoids to control the acv. the haltech will run the 2 solenoids (relief and switching), and it is possible to put it in the stock ecu case and use the factory wire harness so nobody would know.

i like that you have kept it smog legal, that is setting the right example, i'm working on getting my 3 rotor to pass too

Icemark

After seeing Kevins numbers though, I am beginning to think my numbers are still optimistic.

I might have to run down to San Ramon and try it on the same dyno.

How much work is setting up the Haltech (or other aftermarket ECUs)? Dyno time at $125 an hour adds up real fast.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

well the wide open stuff is pretty quick on an na, so thats about an hour or 2. theres about 2-3-4 more hours to get the idle, cruise and transitions right though, but you dont need a dyno.

once you have a decent map, then you can go back to the dyno and attack certain rpm ranges. the dyno can be hard, because its loud,hot and smelly. you get tired quick. so its best to show up with a plan

wozzoom

Wow. I can't believe that you hit over 170 RWHP with the stock exhaust manifold, a cat, and stock emissions. Mazda has been trying to do this for years!!! Hell, your numbers are very close to the RX-8!?!?! ACTUALLY, with your 7000 RPM redline, YOU ARE MAKING MORE THAN THE RX-8 at 7000 RPM! WTF!

Icemark, you are by far one of the most trusted members on this list. If anyone else had made this claim, I would have said Bulls@it because I just can't see how it can be done. I'm just having a hard time believing it. (Maybe I'm jealous? :P )

If your numbers are right, then Mazda should have never wasted millions of dollars developing the RENESIS... All they needed to do was port the engine and intake of the S5 engine.

wozzoom

A verification run may be in order... I'm not calling you a liar by any means. I'd just love to see a run on the same dyno Kevin had his car on.

Kevin's GTUs has
The benefit of 8000 RPM Redline
A modified fuel map via the S-AFC
Ported intake manifold
Ported throttle body
Intake
A true dual exhaust with no restrictions.
BUT a stock block...

If I'm understanding your setup, you have:
a ported S4 motor with 7000 RPM redline
Stock ECU running a rich fuel map
Bumped timing
Ported Throttle body
Intake
Lightened flywheel
Full emissions and a cat!

You still made 15-16 more HP!

asuka42227

Beautiful work Icemark. Keep all of us na guys posted on that exhaust system. We need all the hp we can get.

Icemark

yeah I am think the same thing. I expected his car with his mods to make considerably more than mine, but it is looking more like the intake and ignition mods I did equalled the exhaust he did. Extude does claim a 30% increase in flow, but at that point I question if the ECU can keep up.

And, The first dyno run of that day I only did about 163 RWHP, which would be online with Kevins (like I am gonna post the low numbers when I am bragging).

Edit<After talking with Dale Clark this afternoon, I am more convinced that my numbers are pretty close. He said he himself had seen a non-turbo hitting 160-165 RWHP with no porting, but otherwise simular setup while using a high flow cat and a N1 (catback) exhaust. He and I both are convinced that the condition of the motor (new, rebuilt, 100K miles, 200K miles) really affects the power output more than anything. That would follow R&T's testing of their long term RX-7 where after 30K miles the car had 15 more HP than when brand new.

Remember Kevins motor has about 70K miles more than mine and his is 10psi lower across the board on compression as well.


You know I think it really was the Fake Mazdaspeed titanium oil cap...:

That has to be worth 50 HP right there... Right?


.

Icemark

Nah, the Reni is making considerably more HP still. I have driven a couple of them now. I'd say the Reni is making at least 30-40 HP more. Even with driveline losses the RX-8 should be making around 205 - 210 RWHP.

Driving an manual tranny RX-8 it does feel about the same power until around 6500 RPM, but then the RX-8 is noticeably faster (think of if the VDI kicked in again at 6500-7000) at/above that (where my motor is starting to loose power and die). Plus the reni is much more smooth at 6500 than I could ever hope for on my 'vert.

And the Reni is about 1000% cleaner. In theory my 'vert should pass 86-91 emissions, but there is no way in hell it would even pass 96 model year emission standards well alone 2004 year ULEV standards that the reni does.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

put a voltmeter on the afm and see where it maxxes out (fully open).

my gsl-se is maxxed out at 4500rpms
our s5 its car maxes out around 7000rpms

mike

NZConvertible

No offence, but I really hate it when people (you aren't the first) make ridiculous comments like these.

Noise and emissions standards are far stricter now than they were in the mid-80's when the S5 was developed, and yet the Renesis is still far more powerful. Compared to the Renesis the FC engines are archaic donkeys that wouldn't have a chance of being able to be used in a modern car.

RETed

Yeah, I always thought a header was mandatory for the 170+ power levels.

What's the spec on the dyno?
DynoJet?
Mustang dyno?
Dyno Pack?


-Ted

Bambam7

Headers, to me, just aren't worth anything.. might gain a HP or two... but it's amazingly louder.
Those are definately impresive numbers, especialy considering you don't have an S-AFC or anything.. though the knightsports chip is probably a pretty close substitute for it.
Curious- why didn't you go for the S5 NA rotors?? Lighter weight and higher compression- that a guaranteed increase in HP however you slice it.