classicauto

iTrader: (3)

the bottom line is that NEITHER setup is that drastically more beneficial then the other unless its being compared to one that was done entirely improperly.

ie. turbo lag: a properly designed front mount should not experience noticable turbo lag.....some back woods 2000 bends in the piping typ of system would see HUGE improvements if he switched to a Vmount after having a shitty front mount

However to try and argue that a vmount is retarded is entirely groundless and small minded (bear in mind thats the title of your thread) LOOK at it, its not rocket science as much as breaking it down to this finite level of yours might make it seem. ITS VERY SIMPLE, less volume to charge, more equal airfow between the two coolers repectively, no blcoking the oil cooler either. If you can't see ANY benefit in those few points (no matter how minimal the benefit is) then you really are in the wrong place because racing and pushing things to the limit involves making MAJOR modifications for only barely minimal gains once you past a certain plateau.

MonkeyMagic

In the next month or two, I am going to do the v-mount setup. I'll let you guys know how it is. I just need to put in my new engine first.

RylAssassin

"I知 graduating from OSU this may with my bachelors in Mechanical Engineering
Technology and I will be happy to back up any statements I make with technical data"

uh oh. Stand back everyone cuz i dont think were all worthy enough to debate the pros and cons of a v-mount intercooler with this incredibly important/intelligent person!!

LOL

Sleeper69

I said that so people wouldn't think I was arguing seat of the pants horsepower on V-Mount vs. Front Mount but with actual technical data.

I came to this forum because like I said, 7 owners usually know their **** more than the other car clubs. Sorry if it came off a little arrogant but it was late and I was hopped up on caffeine.

Sleeper69

I guess I should have been clearer about my thread title. The arguments I致e heard in the past sound really dumb to me. I will track down my old roommate and see if I can link you the 240sx thread I was reading about this initially off of.

Usually when a modification like this gets started there are guys using it and testing it in competition to prove its superiority. I was just looking for that kind of proof.

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

so you don't see an advantage of getting equal pressure, equal temp air to both the IC and rad at the same time? iv'e built allot of V mounts and everyone I've done has not only improve response times but improved the over all eff. of the rad to the point that on the hwy some of the opening needs to be taped off to keep the car at operational temps.. The main element in building a good V mount over a poor V mount is ducting.. both ingress and egress. if you can create specific low and high pressure zones around the IC and you have a good CFM draw on your rad Efan then you are always going to come out ahead over std. sandwich stacking.

however if you just put in a V-mount and leave it open on all sides then you might as well not bother.

Sleeper69

Just out of curiosity, How much pipe length did you cut out of the original settup with the V-Mount? It would have to be at least 3feet or so to really notice a difference or was it the number of bends you reduced?

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

one setup in particular on a friend's FC:

the turbo to I/c pipe = 8.75"
I/C to TB = 12.5", slight C bend

that short enough for ya?

edit: granetd the back of his I/C is higher than I would prefer, nonetheless, it is all ducted and has VERY short pipes...is this not getting through? do you know how long all the pipes in the greddy FMIC kit are? (Im genuinely asking) BI bet you there is far more than 3 feet over and above the total length of the average V mount setup

Whats so hard to grasp about this concept?

13b4me

It's both... Less piping + less bends = less turbulence + cooler IAT's = more efficiency...

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

THEN LOOK

example - Apexi D1 FD............v mount intercooler - any questions?

there are benefits to doing it either way but the fact is that when its done properly a V-mount is more efficient (however minimally) because of all te reasons stated multiple times in this thread...I don't know what stupid 240 kids got you all worked about this not working - but it does!!!

Sleeper69

Hmm...just over two feet. That痴 pretty short. I could see a half a psi pressure drop reduction from that. I would like to actually see if I could put a pressure sensor and a thermocouple on each end of the pipe from compressor to throttle body to verify its cooling abilities and what the real pressure drop is. A thermocouple in the air stream before and after a front mount and V-Mount would be very telling too. I have a friend who told me I can get them for personal use from a company called Omega. Im getting ready to run a fron mount settup and ive wanted to do this anyway. I just need a V-Mount FC test car.

I guess the cooling benefits just seem kind of mute in the fact that the previous systems I have had experience with, the radiator did its job adequately with the intercooler in front of them.

Sleeper69

I wouldn't clamor over every thing a performance part company sells because their #1 concern is not the product quailty, its marketing. What is popular right now is what sells and thats whats popular right now.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

both pipes are just UNDER 2 feet in combined length

then find me a genuine Apexi Vmount setup for an FD - they don't make one, rotary extreme does though...

That D1 car IS NOT all about marketing (yes alot of it is advertisinge yes) but its also a competition vehicle, they wouldn't put a setup in there that wasn't somewhat benefical just to market a product they don't even make........

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

whats popular is drift, not V-mounts......they are selling the idea of a car doing 80mph sideways, not a particular I/C setup that 90% of kids who watch D1 events couldn't indentify

Bukwild

ok the main reason RX& people need to go to vmount from FMIC is overheating problems.

The FMIC with AC off will run 205-210 on the highway under normal driving. This is to hot for most people because a few more degrees and your coolant seals will take a dump. My AC did not work so I cannot tell you what the temp was on the highway with the AC running but I have a feeling it would have cost me another motor.

So you can remove the AC condensor out of the way of the rad and that will bring your temps back down to 180-190 on the highway but you now do not have AC.

Vmount will allow you to keep the stock rad, AC and move the IC above it to vent out of some sort of exit in your hood. This will also shorten up the pipes which should improve spool. I am not sure if how much has been documented yet. It also will keep everything out of the rads way so it get fresh air so it can keep your temps at close to stock range.

The reason I have not gone with this setup is removing your intercooler everytime you need to get in to check everything out and reverse hood scoops have not be made available yet at a resonable price.

I am not sure if any of these posts in this thread have any more merit than Vmount allows you to run a large IC at close to stock water temps. And that's it.

bigdongsr94

I love when these threads start by saying "Im an engineer" Thats great and all but paper means nothing. Do some real world things and I think you'll be a little more humble. Even so yes Omega is a TC manufacture. You could try to measure the difference in pressure but you better have a logger for the data that logs very fast because its not going to be a steady pressure drop. Ill be your test car and if im done with my car soon enough ill supply the TC's. Im running far from the best V-mount and ill still bet that it will cool better. Ill be using a stock EVO VIII intercooler so keep that in mind.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

True, however given the MUCH shorter, striaghter pipes, its very logical that its IS lower, however small a degree

That statement has as much validity as any other, and yes, a vmount does allow you to do that.......but a properly done front mount would as well with a HUGE *** rad.......

Monkman33

iTrader: (28)

OK. I am going to point something out.

You are asking questions for benefits of one setup over another. THis would be alright if you didnt come into the discussion with a biased opinion. Now, you are trying to back up a biased opinion with a degree. however, once you are biased in any sort of discussion, your mind (psychologically - which is where MY degree is at) will automatically be more closed off, even if proof slapped ye in the ****.

So this whole discussion is pointless without unbiased members and without some scientific research and data.

Bukwild

I had the largest Griffin rad that woud allow the hood to close and it still did not keep it below 225 at 80mph on the highway on a 80 degree day. Now I went back to the stock rad/shroud with the stock clutch fan and it got the temps down to 210-215 under the same conditions listed above.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

interesting......

But on the Vmount setup of my friends (I will be running a custom FMIC this summer) we saw temps only fluctuating JUST above stock levels, 190-195 between the thermostat opening and closing....bear in mind this setup was fully boxed in, belly pans and all........

But I think there are larger factors at play here because my experience that I am comparing to Bukwild's here, was on a ~ 70 ish day......now he's down south - 80+ was the conditions he was running in.......

I think it would be safe to say that the difference between either setup is not as large as the many other factors that play a role in deceiding intake temps, air flow, and constant operating temp

tas_rx7

how do u mean tapping some parts off? does anyone have ne pics of a v mount mounted? are they hard to mount and do u have to move or chane anything in the engine?

graemy1

He ment he taped up part of the radiator to reduce its cooling efficiency because the engine temp was too low.

This is what a V mount looks like. www.rotaryextreme.com/t60-1-1.jpg

V mount intercoolers are used in just about every turbo racecar class from not only drift but japanese JGTC and international rally cars. This alone must provide enough merit to there efficiency and use.

tas_rx7

any pics of one in a fc engine and do uhave to move anything to make it fit

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

how were the egress/exit vents for the rad and IC particular constructed.. the greater the pressure differential the better the flow rates.. also things like fin counts and rad design make a huge difference.

For all rotarys I use a dual pass rad with matching fin counts on IC and rad.. louvered hood vents seem to work the best and crate the most even draw across the IC egress point.

Icemark

my only comments on this thread:

Graduating with a BE and can't even spell retarded.

...hard to take anyone serious as an engineer that can't spell, and doesn't understand flow dynamics.

I suspect this is simply a troll thread and will be watching it very closely.