tigerboy rei i

is there any other way besides an overhaul?

bradenscreed

ive heard of atf, automatic transmission fluid, poured in the spark plug holes and let soak over night, turning the rotors via the main pulley every 6 hours, could be wrong, but couldnt hurt, btw will smoke like a bitch for a few minutes once u crank it back up

LAN

iTrader: (1)

Which seals?
Apex Seals?
I read alot of thread saying squirt MMO or OIL in the spark plug holes and let it soak abit. .. then crank it.
I also read about pulling the car with another car in gear.

Have you tried any of these?
I would squirt some oil in there first...

iceblue

depends if the motor is carbon locked or the seals are stuck. ATF is no good I dont know why that is said all over the net. I mean it works but with ill effects where motor oil and MMO will do about the same or the same or bettor without the ill effects of ATF. I have tried just about evrything to unstick seals and nothing works outside of a rebuild.

bradenscreed

why is atf so bad? ive never heard anything bad about it, im taking your word, but why?

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

******* sheep thats why...

Why do you ask? did you buy a J-spec or a car that has sat and it has 0 psi on one face?

Either way, I would recommend using oil over ATF.....just be prepared that if the reason you are asking is because one rotor face has zero compression - you MAY have to rebuild it....or you might get lucky - you'll have to find out

bradenscreed

still wondering why atf is so bad?

LAN

iTrader: (1)

It eats seals.
Go to aaroncake.com or is it aaroncake.net?
or search for ATF. **** is old man. you'll find countless comments/threads. etc.etc.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

ATF isn't good for the oil seals but you wanna know what?

**** it! if its trying MMO/ATF or a motor rebuild i suggest trying the MMO/ATF first and see what happens.

Iceblue, MMO is basically the equivalent of ATF but slightly thinned down, its lubrication properties are even lower than ATF so that it can be run in the fuel system, they are both detergents with some lubricative properties.

i suggest using MMO myself, since it is thinner and can work into everything easier. squirt a few ounces into each leading spark plug hole and install the plug, remove the inboard 2 fuses under the hood and crank the engine for about 5 seconds to move the MMO all over the internals and let it sit for about 5 minutes while you go to the store and pick up some starting fluid/ether. for T2 remove the BOV line at the LIM and spray about 3 quick shot of starting fluid into the port and reinstall the vacuum line, now remove the pressure sensor vacuum line from the ACV and spray 3 quick shot into the port and reinstall the vacuum line. for n/a remove the dynamic chamber(large PCV line between the mid mani and upper manifold on the driver's side) and spray about 3-4 quick shot into the port then remove the front vacuum line at the mid manifold and spray about 2 quick shot in it and reinstall the lines. reinstall the fuses and apply about 20% throttle and crank the engine over. if you're lucky it will fire up after some qualms about coming back to life, if you're not so lucky you will need to rebuild.

-Ben

iceblue

I figured someone would bring that up. Yes I know what it is but it is allot cleaner and don’t foul the plugs.

I have personally tried all the stuff ATF and all to avoid rebuild as you said and upon tear down I have seen no results at all. Then when you think about It, it makes scenes. “regarding stuck seals”

Chief

ATF and similar are high detergent, thats why its suggested, it will eat up carbon. my car was carbon locked when my roommate's cousin bought it ($250 for a clean *** 87 base) and they ATF'd it for 24 hours and rocked on it and got it unlocked. almost 40k later, since i bought it all fucked up and rough and missing parts and a busted tranny ($400....anyway) i have absolutely no ill effects. runs great.

anyway. what about the rubber seals in automatic transmissions?
and nothing about special treated this and that in a transmission, if the rubber seals can combustion heat, and constant rubbing on hot metal.. now if somebody had said brake fluid, i think i would agree a little more.
but, im totally open to corrections, give me some proof, and ill eat my words. promise.

unW7WZ

i thought they used neoprene seals in auto trannies...thats why u can use ATF in an AT


just a thought tho...

iceblue

ATF does about didaly to carbon all that happens in a locked motor is it provides lubricant and area to work the carbon free from the housing.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

there are many different types of rubbers. i forget which the seals in the autos are made with but try running engine oil through a heater hose and see what happens, or better yet look at your driver's side heater core hose when you are in that area under your hood, feel how soft the oil has made the hose and look around the forums for how often those hoses fail because they are not meant to interact with engine oil, same goes for auto tranny seals and engine oil and vice versa.

walken

iTrader: (6)

Do a compression test before and after.

Get a 19mm socket to turn the engine over. Remove the exhaust manifold and the throttle body if working by yourself. If not, you can have someone floor the gas pedal.

Two half turns on the socket will give you a pop of compression. It will let you know your progress.

Get a flash light and look in the exhaust port. Turn the engine slowly until you see the shiny apex seal.

Use a plastic or wooden rod (so you don't damage anything) and push the top of the seal with it. See if it is stuck or makes a little clicking noise. If it is stuck use a freeing agent and spray it across the seal. Then softly pry at the front and back of the seal. You might be able to free it.

Repeat on all seals until the compression sounds better or you have found a broken/rusted seal. When you turn the engine, your freeing agent will burn and smoke a little.

tIIforever

mmo freed mine up

tigerboy rei i

Mine starts and runs. It loses power randomly, and when i shut it off, smoke comes out of the exaust, along with condensation. It smells like burning oil. I think the apex seals are just filled with gooey carbon. can i run seafoam or something like that to help it?

uRizen

iTrader: (2)

I'd definatly recommend this method. I did this to one of my spare motors that was compressing very weakly in the rear and after clearing up the seals I got some nice strong pops.

If the engine is in the car use carb cleaner and make sure to give the car a good run afterwards because I've heard it can have ill effects on the housings if it sits there for awhile.

tigerboy rei i

what type of carb cleaner? like the gm top end and carb cleaner you run through a vacuum line slowly, then flood out the engine with and let sit for a few minutes and run out, or like the stuff that you spray in, or the stuff for the gas tank?

Phantomkid

hmm. i just bought a turbo motor and im wondering if a seal is stuck, walken mentioned for every half turn you should hear a pop. i recall someone telling me that the 2 rotors fire at the same time, but im not sure about that because i think it would be better design to have one then the other. So my question is for every turn 360 degrees, every 180 youll get a compression pop per rotor, or at the same time? thanks guys im hoping i dont have another blown motor.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

1 per rotor per 360 degrees so 2 pops per rotation, you need to do 3 full rotations to test all faces of the rotors.

there is no cure for oil burning, you may unstick the apex/side seals but if the oil seals are leaking you basically need to do a rebuild regardless because the smokescreen will make the car undriveable.

Phantomkid

karack you just made my night, or morning. damn and its my birthday life probably doesnt get much better then this. does it matter if im spinning the motor backwards. thanks alot

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

yes it does, turn the engine clockwise or it will try pulling air from the exhaust port and compressing it out the intake port which really doesn't work that well and doesn't make a pop or chug indicating decent sealing.

Phantomkid

thanks i have the top plugs out thats why it only made the pops when going backwards, the pops arnt very load and with the plugs in they wont hold(guess i have to buy another flywheel stopper for the turbo motor).Im not to worry that the pops arnt load because the motor is cold and hasnt run in a year alittle bit of oil should help... im just happy that it actually makes the pops

longisland87rx7

i heard that atf expands the apex seals ??