Transmission fluid in Gas?
10-26-06, 10:18 PM
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Transmission fluid in Gas?
Has anyone heard of putting half a quart of tranny fluid in every full tank of gas for extra lube for the seals? Is that better for the motor/ok? Its a turbo. Thanks for you help.
John
John
10-26-06, 10:29 PM
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Well, I'm planing on buying a TurboII and the owner said this was a trick he learned? Should i be worried about the condition of the seals or whatnot? Could anything be damaged if hes been doing this? I'm kinda worried. Thanks
John
John
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10-27-06, 09:28 AM
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Manual gear oil isn't going to have any better effect than engine oil in the gas, use regular engine oil in the gas instead. ATF in the gas will wreck the seals on your fuel pump and eat at your rubber fuel lines, BAD.
If you want to put ATF in the engine pour it in a spark plug hole or in the intake. It works better than way, less damage.
If you want to put ATF in the engine pour it in a spark plug hole or in the intake. It works better than way, less damage.
10-27-06, 09:57 AM
#14
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Does this vehicle have the oil injection disabled or bypassed?
ATF isn't harsh or corrosive to any seals. If anything, its more mild since the additive package is lacking compared to motor oil. ATF doesn't need to deal with combustion byproducts. ATF doesn't have multiweight grades so it doesn't have an overdose of VII. Its also pretty thin and might burn better then 20w50 mud that everyone likes to run.
Read your motor oil bottle. Does it mention that it can be used as premix with oil injection? Nope! And, the last time I checked, there arent' too many 2-stroke oils recommended for 4-stroke motors.
If anything, ATF is better then motor oil. But, 2-stroke and UCL's are best.
If the OMP is disabled, you should be running premix using 2-stroke. If you run out of premix, ANY lube is better then none. Don't fear ATF, PSF, motor oil, or even Crisco/Mazola in an emergency situation.
If the MOP is not disabled, you can run just about any oil as a supplemental lube. Low doses(2-4 ounces per full tank) of oil can be used to supplement the oil injection system. You do not need 1/2 bottles! Excessive lube will add to the carbon buildup.
Buy the vehicle. Run a couple tanks with a quality FI cleaner to help remove any carbon from the excessive use of lubricant in the fuel. Then, either disable the oil injection and go premix, OR add a couple ounces of UCL/TCW3 to every full tank. No need to overdose.
ATF isn't harsh or corrosive to any seals. If anything, its more mild since the additive package is lacking compared to motor oil. ATF doesn't need to deal with combustion byproducts. ATF doesn't have multiweight grades so it doesn't have an overdose of VII. Its also pretty thin and might burn better then 20w50 mud that everyone likes to run.
Read your motor oil bottle. Does it mention that it can be used as premix with oil injection? Nope! And, the last time I checked, there arent' too many 2-stroke oils recommended for 4-stroke motors.
If anything, ATF is better then motor oil. But, 2-stroke and UCL's are best.
If the OMP is disabled, you should be running premix using 2-stroke. If you run out of premix, ANY lube is better then none. Don't fear ATF, PSF, motor oil, or even Crisco/Mazola in an emergency situation.
If the MOP is not disabled, you can run just about any oil as a supplemental lube. Low doses(2-4 ounces per full tank) of oil can be used to supplement the oil injection system. You do not need 1/2 bottles! Excessive lube will add to the carbon buildup.
Buy the vehicle. Run a couple tanks with a quality FI cleaner to help remove any carbon from the excessive use of lubricant in the fuel. Then, either disable the oil injection and go premix, OR add a couple ounces of UCL/TCW3 to every full tank. No need to overdose.
10-27-06, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by deadRX7Conv
ATF isn't harsh or corrosive to any seals. If anything, its more mild since the additive package is lacking compared to motor oil. ATF doesn't need to deal with combustion byproducts. ATF doesn't have multiweight grades so it doesn't have an overdose of VII. Its also pretty thin and might burn better then 20w50 mud that everyone likes to run.
ATF in the engine is generally a BAD idea.
Here is a nice writeup by AaronCake:
http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/atftrick.htm
10-27-06, 12:19 PM
#16
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Well, you need to do more research.
ATFs have less AW/EP additives.
They are thinner and tend to hold that thin viscosity well, no excessive VII or thickeners to shear. And, there isn't an excessive amount of TBN additives. This is why it'll burn cleaner. Basically ATF is the same as motor oil but with less of everything which leads to less ash when burned.
And, motor oil lives in a harsher environment. We change our motor oil every 5k or less when ATF can actually last the lifetime of the transmission. That says a lot for which environment is harsher.
For any fluid to become corrosive, heat and moisture are needed. ATF doesn't see the moisture that motor oil sees, the byproducts of combustion.
If ATF was so harsh and corrosive, transmissions(both automatic and manuals), power steering systems(that use ATF), and transfer cases(many now use ATF), would have a very short life. Thats not happening! This is because ATF isn't harsh or corrosive.
Also ATFs are tested to multiple standards. These specs(like Mercon or Dexron) have numerous material tests that spec seal growth/shrinkage over the life of the fluid. Because of this, the additive packages are very neutral to any and most synthetic or organic sealing materials.
Any product in the fuel is used up quickly. Its not like your getting 10000mpg and have to worry about the age of whats in the fuel tank. ATF as supplemental premix won't cause any issues.
Since the thread starter was overdosing it as premix(not mentioning whether OMP is working or not), the only issue I see if a little carbon buildup(that every rotary has anyway). Use a couple bottles of FI cleaners for CC decarboning, and start an appropriate 2-stroke dose.
ATFs have less AW/EP additives.
They are thinner and tend to hold that thin viscosity well, no excessive VII or thickeners to shear. And, there isn't an excessive amount of TBN additives. This is why it'll burn cleaner. Basically ATF is the same as motor oil but with less of everything which leads to less ash when burned.
And, motor oil lives in a harsher environment. We change our motor oil every 5k or less when ATF can actually last the lifetime of the transmission. That says a lot for which environment is harsher.
For any fluid to become corrosive, heat and moisture are needed. ATF doesn't see the moisture that motor oil sees, the byproducts of combustion.
If ATF was so harsh and corrosive, transmissions(both automatic and manuals), power steering systems(that use ATF), and transfer cases(many now use ATF), would have a very short life. Thats not happening! This is because ATF isn't harsh or corrosive.
Also ATFs are tested to multiple standards. These specs(like Mercon or Dexron) have numerous material tests that spec seal growth/shrinkage over the life of the fluid. Because of this, the additive packages are very neutral to any and most synthetic or organic sealing materials.
Any product in the fuel is used up quickly. Its not like your getting 10000mpg and have to worry about the age of whats in the fuel tank. ATF as supplemental premix won't cause any issues.
Since the thread starter was overdosing it as premix(not mentioning whether OMP is working or not), the only issue I see if a little carbon buildup(that every rotary has anyway). Use a couple bottles of FI cleaners for CC decarboning, and start an appropriate 2-stroke dose.
10-27-06, 03:04 PM
#17
From Aaron Cake's site:
I think that pretty much sums it up, especially the part in bold. Also, the automatic transmission is a pretty harsh environment, but it is totally sealed up from outside contaminents which is why it doesn't have to be changed as often. It also does NOT last the life of the transmission. Unless of course you never change it, which could kill the tranny. It is generally recommended to change it every 100k miles.
The seals and materials in an automatic transmission are different than those in the working chamber of your engine. While ATF may not be corrosive to the bands, clutches and gaskets in an automatic transmission, it is corrosive to carbon (which is good, and why it cleans the engine) and has been shown to affect the rubber O-rings used to seal the rotor housings together, as well as the o-rings used on the oil seals. ATF attacks all those seals, and if they were marginal to begin with, they will most certainly be ruined by the ATF trick.
Last edited by Sideways7; 10-27-06 at 03:06 PM.
10-27-06, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by onehalfasia
Well, I'm planing on buying a TurboII and the owner said this was a trick he learned? Should i be worried about the condition of the seals or whatnot? Could anything be damaged if hes been doing this? I'm kinda worried. Thanks
John
John
10-27-06, 03:56 PM
#19
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ATF doesn't even affect carbon. Most people don't understand how the ATF trick works. ATF has more BTU's then gasoline, like any other thicker higher level petroleum products. That heat, along with improved compression sealing caused by having ATF(or any oil) coating everything, gives you more complete combustion to burn everything out. Its nothing but a short term fix. Steam is the best way to decarbon a motor. But, most are too dumb to do it correctly, and too cheap to add water injection. Solvents, and synthetic equivalents, make ATF look lame when it comes to removing carbon. If ATF was so great, every garage parts washer would come filled with it.
What material will ATF attack? Name the material!
ATF is neutral to rubber, silicone, teflon, and dozens of other gasket/hose materials used in transmissions and powersteering systems. It also doesn't attack any metals. So how can it be corrosive?
C'mon post some ******* facts! Don't blabber about corrosive if you don't even know what that word means.
And, just because someone has a webpage doesn't mean they are correct. That above 'bold' quote is wrong, as is plenty of misinformation available on the web.
What material will ATF attack? Name the material!
ATF is neutral to rubber, silicone, teflon, and dozens of other gasket/hose materials used in transmissions and powersteering systems. It also doesn't attack any metals. So how can it be corrosive?
C'mon post some ******* facts! Don't blabber about corrosive if you don't even know what that word means.
And, just because someone has a webpage doesn't mean they are correct. That above 'bold' quote is wrong, as is plenty of misinformation available on the web.
10-27-06, 03:58 PM
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Engine, Not Motor
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Originally Posted by deadRX7Conv
What material will ATF attack? Name the material!
ATF is neutral to rubber, silicone, teflon, and dozens of other gasket/hose materials used in transmissions and powersteering systems. It also doesn't attack any metals. So how can it be corrosive?
C'mon post some ******* facts! Don't blabber about corrosive if you don't even know what that word means.
And, just because someone has a webpage doesn't mean they are correct. That above 'bold' quote is wrong, as is plenty of misinformation available on the web.
ATF is neutral to rubber, silicone, teflon, and dozens of other gasket/hose materials used in transmissions and powersteering systems. It also doesn't attack any metals. So how can it be corrosive?
C'mon post some ******* facts! Don't blabber about corrosive if you don't even know what that word means.
And, just because someone has a webpage doesn't mean they are correct. That above 'bold' quote is wrong, as is plenty of misinformation available on the web.
Unfortunately I did that before I made the ATF web page and have not done it again since, but now that I've been reminded look for a graphic example of the evilness of ATF next time I update my website...
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