Aruba27flr

hahaha, yeah, that makes the diagram make a lot more sense. i was thinking up was away from the car, but it makes more sense if up = more pressure, which would explain air flowing right into the radiator and tons of pressure on the nose. well i guess i'm retarted too

cardzrule

I think you have it backwards and I think that a case of beer needs to get sent to NZ.



I also think that your cigarette has something funny in it. get it get it? Crack kills.

88IntegraLS

At WOT at around 60 mph it wasn't much but at 80+ it was at least .05 ATU (5kpa). The other data I got was it would stay at 0 vacuum (gauge pegged) until about 3500 rpm, while before I made the intake it would only do this up to about 3k.

I dunno, I guess I was just making the remark that the constructive ideas get lost in the skepticism at times.

NZConvertible

I don't need to. I'm right.

Be careful about calling others stupid. Those arrows represent force vectors, the force created by air pressure on the car's surface. Hopefully you understand that the area at the nose of the car is a high pressure area because hits the air first. That's why the arrows point into the car. Because air is then deflected upwards, a low pressure area is created at the front of the hood, even though the air is still travelling along the surface of the body. That air then hits the base of the windshield and is forced to turn upwards, which creates a high pressure zone. Do you understand yet why your hood spacer kit won't work?

Agent_D

iTrader: (2)

i never said the hood spacer kit would work, i said i would like to test it with temperatures, and its not mine, www.aerodyne.net , they sell the kit.

RX_AV8TR

Force vectors....this is just funny...I guess you think that a 500lb rock hits the ground before the feather too...

Agent_D

iTrader: (2)

hmmm after an hour of searching for vehicle related force vectors, you know what i find, nothing but helicopter related stuff, care to elaborate on the vehicle force vectors??

gxlbiscuit

i hereby order all bullshit to cease and everyone focus on what i want to talk about cuz its my damn thread.. back to hoodscoops nz you are banned from talking in this thread:-P you over complicate ****. and if we let you you would go on forever. now i must be off to conquer the world before dawn..... dont forget bigger hoodscoops are your friend cuz biscuit says so.. (swings pendelum in your face)

NZConvertible

You seem to be avoiding the fact that you were wrong and owe me a case of beer.

A force vector is an arrow that represents the direction and magnitude of a force. The longer the line, the greater the force. That is what that diagram is showing.

In case you didn't realise, aerodynamics is complicated. If that bothers you, don't mess with it. I'll stop posting in "your" thread when people stop posting incorect info.

RX_AV8TR

Now I'm getting a little aggravated....in six years of undergraduate university science degree including a minor in applied mathematics (that's engineering) plus all aerodynamics courses to become a Naval Aviator I think I can talk about aerodynamics.

You will never use a force vector to describe airflow, you will decribe changes in pressure caused by changes in airflow velocity. A force vector will be utilized to show the resultant forces of air acting on a body, in this case lift and drag ...that's it!! There's not a single equation that utilizes force, that's mass times acceleration, has nothing to do with an airfoil (surface of the car).
This is no search result, and I got knee deep into it...it's a class and it's not called aerodynamics....it's called FLUID MECHANICS ( the behavior of gases in motion).

EDIT: Can we talk about cars now??

NZConvertible

And I never did.

That's exactly what I just said, and that's exactly what the diagram shows. Look at the arrows at the front and rear of the car. They're pointing rearwards, i.e. drag force. Look at the arrows on the top surfaces of the car. They're pointing upwards, i.e. lift force.

Sure we can. Are you still sticking by your statement that the base of the car's windscreen is a low-pressure area?

bcool

I just put mine in, let me know if you have any questions (hint...assload of zipties)

RX_AV8TR

Yes, I tell you why, actually there's a resultant force in those arrows, but it's opposite to them...it's pointing down like in the front of the hood, that area creates down force not up. The laminar flow departs the hood at an angle that hits the windshield right above that small area at the base of it, creating a small low press area where the arrows are pointing down.

Even if you were right and they were force vectors then the graphic would be showing more lift at the hood (lagrer arrows) than on the roof of the car, which is incorrrect.
I don't know, but I get the feeling that we're saying the same thing maybe using the wrong words.

Anyway...with the money it costs to make a scoop...I'd buy the piping and put the IC on the front....wouldn't u???

NZConvertible

If you don't believe me...

From AutoSpeed:

At the front there must be a point above which the air goes over the car, and below which the air goes under the car. This is called the stagnation point, and it is here that there will be the greatest pressure developed on the front of the car as it moves forward. This graphic of a Mercedes shows the high-pressure stagnation area in red, lesser high-pressure areas in green, and the low-pressure areas in blue.



You'll notice the shape of the pressure profile is simlimar to the one for the FC.

How about actual pressure measurements taken on a Lexus RX330 at 60km/h (37mph) using a Magnehelic pressure gauge (measurements in inches of water):

Middle of front numberplate +0.55
Front tow-hook blanking plate +0.40
Leading edge of front undertray +0.30
Middle of headlight +0.20
Middle of badge in grille +0.20
Base of windscreen +0.10
Below front foglight on bumper +0.05
Front wheel arch -0.10
Outer edge of headlight -0.45
Top of windscreen -0.60

Or a similar test on another car, using the same test method except driving at 80km/h (50mph), with the results again in inches of water:



That's three totally different tests all showing a positive pressure at the base of the windscreen. Does this evidence convince you? Can you present similar evidence to prove me wrong?

Why do you think that's incorrect?

I'm saying it's a high-pressure area, you're saying it's a low-pressure area. That ain't the same thing.

gxlbiscuit

nice pictures NZ.. HOWEVER you are still getting waaaaaaay tofar into the hole pressure thing.. the original post says MORE SURFACE AREA. the increase in pressure which i thought would occur was a bonus... forest for the trees once again you will go on forever.....

cardzrule

NASA says that lift and drag are a FORCE and you also forgot thrust and weight
http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/forces.html

There are a LOT of equations that NASA says utilize force but I only understand some of the pictures and not the equations.

Maybe you should Search more? My 6 minutes of searching owns ur 6 years of college. Search is good for young people like me who don't have college or old people like you who forget your college. Don't be a Search hater.

You owe NZ beer dood. You bet on on pressure not airflow.

cardzrule

You said you were not going to increase the intercooler surface area. Did you change your mind now that you know you were wrong about everything that people said you were wrong about?

gxlbiscuit

the DRAWING again shows AN INCREASED INTAKE AREA nothing about intercooler surface area. a misunderstanding on your part. and if i answered yes to your stupid question would you feel better? geesh waste of your energy... the pictures shows a bigger scoop hence the threadname "supersnout hoodscoop" notice that scoop part? or is it the hood part thats getting you. stop trying to make people look dumb..cardzrule

RX_AV8TR

cardzrule...weight and thrust are not a factor in this discussion, constant speed, keep searching, hey I don't hate search btw!!!




Last night I sent the RX-7 airflow profile and your pics to an buddy of mine that went on to get his PhD to see if I just absolutely braindumped.

The area at the base of the windshield is the area of high pressure, but it's high static pressure due to the deceleration of airflow, not pressure excerted on the windshield due to it's velocity, kinda like a drop of water at the base climbs very slow up the windshield because lower pressure excerted on the surface of it and lower aiflow speed, but it is a high pressure area. Then the dorp gets accelerated as the wind excerts more pressure on it's surface, but reducing the static pressure because of higher velocity....increasing drag.
Raising the hood would lower the temp because of a static pressure differential from the inside of the engine bay but would increase the drag dramatically.

Kinda confusing, we were saying exactly the same thing...different terms but in any case I was explaining it wrong, so.....I concede...cheers.

gxlbiscuit

so does the guy in puerto rico have the scoop?

theantirotor

iTrader: (1)

actually the rock probably would hit the ground before the feather. resistance is a bitch. unless you are talking about dropping them both in a vacuum of course.

NZConvertible

Ha! I missed must've that comment. For an "aviator" to not realise that the rock will definitely hit the gound before the feather is pretty scary.

flubyux2

how bout a water sprayer for the ic and just using 50/50 water-alky mix? get that stuff on your hand and blow on it, its wicked cold.. if you want it even COLDER, use ethanol. that stuff gets pretty cold too.

Evo's have it stock, so do some celica GT-4's. better than having a big guady hood scoop that you cant see around.

you guys are both idiots anyways, i know 500lbs of feathers are lighter than 500 lbs of bricks... therefore the bricks would hit the ground first !

--MAstermind--

9.8 meters per second square = gravity

(dont ask just thought id refresh my physics...)

wmelon137

i think i'll personally avoid spraying ethanol anywhere near my running engine. thank you very much. especially in the south where its humid as all hell