cardzrule

... in my post which is 10 posts before the one where you included the same picture. But I'm a bonehead so I guess my input doesn't count. I guess it doesn't matter since I found it searching this forum so it's not like I was the first person to post the picture anyway.

In other words you admit that I was right about the lower pressure because I used the Search function and you didn't. The TII has been out since 1987 so what makes you think that you are the first person to attempt to redesign the scoop?

Now about the intake area that you think needs to be increased... when using the Search function on this forum I found that the intake area should be about 1/4 the size of the intercooler core cross-sectional area, which I think is close to how Mazda designed the stock system. So if you double the size of the inlet area but keep the same intercooler core, then wouldn't that make the ratio more like 1/2 instead of 1/4? And if 1/4 is optimal then wouldn't 1/2 be worse?

Maybe you should have NZConvertible design the scoop for you? What he is saying mostly matches what I have found on the internet.

If that is the case then what is the point of this thread if it is not intended to have any discussion? Is everybody just supposed to ooh and ah just for the sake of promoting something simply because it is different? Those who don't want any criticism should just build their retarded intercooler scoop and not post on internet forums.

Agent_D

iTrader: (2)

lol 1/2 is bigger than 1/4... 1/4 may be optimal for stock boost levels, but he isnt running stock boost levels.

as for the thread, he asked if someone would make it, he didnt say "i want everyone to throw in their criticisms even though no one has any real proof or numbers saying it doesnt work"

bottom line to everyone, if you dont have numbers or some kind of proof to back up that its a bad design/bad idea/ or otherwise, quit wasting his time with hearsay or what you think is right or wrong. if you wanna say its not gonna work, make one like he said, go get it tested, post your numbers compared to stock and prove him wrong, otherwise its just talk.

the only person i give any credibility to is NZConvertible, cause i know he's one smart cookie and knows a LOT about FC's, but even so, he has no numbers backing up his theory either.

cardzrule

What makes you think that 1/2 is better than 1/4? Look, if 1/4 is optimal, then everything else is NOT optimal, which means worse. Therefore 1/2 would be worse, and 1/8 would be worse. Why would anybody want to have LESS cooling if they intend to run higher boost?

Actually he started the thread with a statement of his incorrect theory on what would make a good intercooler despite the fact that he has no education to support this claim, no proof to support this claim (which ironically seems to be your main concern but you ignore HIS lack of proof), and he did not even bother to search the forum to find out that the whole idea is a waste of time. However you are right that he was asking for somebody to build it and not tell him that the idea is dumb. He obviously knew that the idea was dumb when he started the thread so he may just be trolling this forum. I have seen a lot of problems with that on other car forums.

Agent_D

iTrader: (2)

lol his proof would be if it worked or not, if it didnt work, then he was wrong, but you keep insisting that your right with no proof, believe what you will, when you have numbers disproving the theory then you can talk all the **** you want.

the way you saying it, 1/4 is optimal for absolutely everything for the TMIC, 1/4 is optimal for a stock system, you have no way of knowing if 1/4 is optimal for a different turbo, more boost, engine porting, etc etc etc.

GET NUMBERS THEN TALK ****, i dont care what kind of educatin you do or do not have, without actual numbers supporting what you say, everything you say is useless, why is that so hard to understand??

oh btw, im done with this thread, when you have hard evidence, IE: numbers if you didnt figure that out, disproving his theory, and actual testing done to see that it doesnt work, PM the numbers.

i never said it would or wouldnt work in any of my posts, i said it could increase velocity of air going in, and he never said it would or wouldnt work either, just to make it so he could find out.

cardzrule

Yes he did, and misinformation like this is harmful to people like me who rely on the internet to make up for a lack of education, age, and actual testing experience:
Would you also like me to test to see if street porting the engine makes the car go faster, or do you think that a simple Search and some common sense would save everybody a lot of trouble?

RX_AV8TR

HOLY CRAP!!!

Dudes, all you need is is to read my previous posts to figure out if it would work or not, I'm not going to repeat myself...this is waaay over the head of some, just some of the posters here.

LOL, 1/4 beter that 1/2 on a heat exchanger...dude, I'm not even going to comment on that monumental statement. Here's the bottom line YES IT WOULD WORK period.
You want numbers?? I charge regular math tutorial fee, even if you do you wouldn't understand a single page of the many to show them.
Please don't take this personal, but if a read a post I know if it's over my head, we're all here to learn... so I think some of you have been way out of line insulting
each other (OK OK I'm new here..I'm saying it anyway), so c'mon we're supposed to be a fraternity here!

Google will help little on this but Physics I+II, Aerodynamics, Thermodynamics and Fluid Dynamics will get you the numbers everybody has been talking about. Oh yea BTW, you need Calculus I, II, II and Differential Equations before taking most of those!
Or plenty of experience moving IC's around and measuring temp at the IC.

I think this thread is entering a stall!! (Google that...it will help to understand this thread)

RX_AV8TR

I didn't mean to throw anything on somebody's face, I'm no better that anybody else, but this silyness needs to stop. I want to put some good tech info here...that's what this place is all about.

If were just going to say " Ahhh you're full of ****" the moderators might as well put a big, stainless steel, bullet proof LOCK on this thread

Agent_D

iTrader: (2)

hahaha, see you dont understand at all, no one has done any testing for this type of larger scoop, lots of people have tested street ported engines so we know numbers on that, and that it produces better results.

your trying to make a comparison between something with no testing and something with lots of testing, and it just isnt the same, link to me a thread, or a webpage anywhere that has some kind of testing done with a larger hood scoop, you wont find one.

i agree with you av8tr, people talk **** and say bad stuff about each other, but no one ever has the inclination to actually do any kind of real world testing on anything to see if it works, they just want to say it wont work. if people posted good useful information on here we wouldnt have so many questions, but everyone tries to post stuff they have heard, or know nothing about and saw a web page with the info on it that was actually wrong.

RX_AV8TR

Well....Subaru has...

Anyone like to post their result???? (pics would be enough!!)

Agent_D

iTrader: (2)

oh no, i didnt mean another company, just the FC alone, i doubt the numbers would be the same on a WRX since the air flow characteristics are probably different, they probably have a different size IC, maybe different sized scoop inlet duct, etc.

i believe it will increase velocity, volume; maybe not, but velocity for sure.

RX_AV8TR

Oh Ok, you're agreeing...my bad, but if you increase air velocity you increase airflow through the IC...therefore = more volume of air/time which = more heat exchange!!! Bingo!! Yeeeaaayy!!

gxlbiscuit

what the world needs now............ is luuuuuuuv sweet luv................... AND A BIGGER FREAKING FRONT SCOOP!!! subaru did make the scoop bigger for the stis because it works better. im done i just want a freaking bigger scoop. the forum can be poop sometimes.... i want a solution some of you people just subconciously have to find the time to argue about something(must be the bitch at work or home). either you can help US get bigger scoops or shut up. (*&#$*(&@@ @ !!!!!!!! im done trying to debate my concept renewed.. help or dont post .. done

NZConvertible

Lower pressure does not mean no air, but it can mean less air. But there's far more to it than that. There's a very important point about pressures that everyone's missing here. Not one person has mentioned the pressure under the hood. When you're deciding on a location for a scoop or vent on a hood you need to measure the pressure both above and below the hood at various points to find the greatest pressure difference. That's where it will work best. There are significant differences in pressure under the hood as well as above it. Without proper testing it's very hard to predict where the best spot will be, but looking at other cars with forward-facing hood scoops it's not hard to see that most are in the middle of the hood, not towards the front or rear. It's pretty obvious from all the posts above that nobody other than MAZDA has done any testing to determine the best place for the scoop. All I see is the assumptions of people with fairly limited understand of aerdynamics and who have presented nothing that might even hint at another location being better.

gxlbiscuit

Omg Stop Talking About Pressure We Need A Bigger Scoop...........

cardzrule

Why? Where do you get your information from? Why not make the scoop 10 times bigger? In fact, why not just remove the hood completely if you think that exposure to more air is going to help?

BTW, isn't a custom scoop going to cost like $2k? Have you gotten any estimates from custom shops like Monster Garage?

RX_AV8TR

NZ, are you willing to bet on that?? I go to Australia often, sometimes to NZ... PM me if you want to know why I think it's neglible you just mentioned. We've talked about it enough here.

BTW...That's a bold statement you made, all I've posted based of principles straight out of books, and lots of years of study and tweaking TII's...I really don't appreciate that my friend, I know you're the man but on this one I think you should budge a bit.

Happy face.... This is all in a friendly tone...

gxlbiscuit

Just the scoop is being made bigger stop trying your best to be so damn stupid..you're succeeding... i drew a simple picture for you........... now who can make the scoop........

NZConvertible

Bet on what?

If you're really serious about this you don't need someone else to make if for you yet. Why waste time and money having someone fabricate something until you know it will work? For prototyping something like this all you need is some stiff cardboard or plastic sheet and some duct tape. That way you can make improvements and changes as you test it's effectiveness. Which brings up the next important point. You need some way of quantifying your results. How are you going to do this? As a minimum you should be measuring the pressure on top of the intercooler (more pressure means more flow) and the intake temp. You need to be able to take before and after measurements on the same day, particularly with temps.

In your first post you called yourself resourceful, said you didn't want negative comments, and just wanted someone to make this for you. If you can come back with a design that you have proven will improve intercooler efficiency, you will be taken far more seriously. Everyone keeps blabbing about proof; how about you go get some?

renagade_rotary

......... omg no one can be that ****** retarded

its common sense that a bigger opening will force more air through the ic

and if u remove he hood completely it wont force air through the ic it will create a low pressure area above the engine which will suck air from the engine bay and bleow the car

gxlbiscuit

hmm lets see.. im in the military... i surely dont have the work areas to create such things.. i brought my idea renewed to the forum in hopes someone else would goo haaaaaaaaaa good idea i wanna do that. i will be measuring intake air tempteratures.. throws a table at NZ. lands on his big toe... stop trying to be so damn difficult. one purpose of the forum is to help each other out.. what the **** is this..

cardzrule

Looks like you only need about 25 square feet for this project
http://www.procooling.com/articles/h...ite_air_du.php

You don't seem to want any help. Why don't you just have a local shop build your scoop?

I left the Honda forums because of things like that. Why don't you go there instead of this forum?

So you are saying that it is important to have a high pressure zone at the intercooler inlet and a low pressure zone at the intercooler outlet?

NZConvertible

C'mon, we're talking about a piece not much bigger than the stock scoop. I really don't believe you haven't got room to do this. If you have a place for the car, you have a place to do this.

Then your expectations were probably a bit high.

That's a start, but it'll be difficult to really show how much of an effect the scoop is having. Intake temps are dependant on many other variables besides how much air gets pushed through the IC. Measuring the pressure on top of the IC at a range of speeds before and after your mod will give you solid numbers that will clearly show how successful you've been. A water manometer is the cheapest and easiest way to do this. It'll cost a few bucks at most.

So suggesting you that test something to see if it actually works before you build it for real is being difficult? Damn, I'm glad you don't design stuff for a living...

This is you showing that you're unwilling to listen to anything except exactly what you want to hear.

RX_AV8TR

Looks like the conversations are getting better....whew!! Now I'll put the physics principles aside and now to reality, this is just my personal opinion on IC's.
After debating a lot here, although I think that it would definitely result in a drop in temp, I think it would be minimal, when I say that I refer to it being berely noticeable in performance...if at all, just like a cat-back, it gives but very little.
Given the amount of work involved in making or modifying the scoop vs. relocating the OEM IC to the front...it's probably not worth it. Now, putting the IC in the front right in front on the grille that's another story, you're taking a huge factor out...radiated heat, and there's no way around that top mounted. Even with about .5 to 1psi drop the drop in temp alone will result in increased hp...and there's tests to many brands and sizes of IC's out there to back that up, all you do is turn that **** 1/4 turn to the right!!!
All in all...I would just put it on the front...

Food for thought.

CrispyRX7

iTrader: (139)

pffft! I've had that pic on my harddrive for ages, so no I didn't get it from your post ...thanks. BTW the link in your post #35 takes me to some other image (shrug). Profile shot of a rotaries innards? Anywho, you girls keep arguing, and I will withdraw from the pissing contest. Apologies for trying to assist.

Regards,
Crispy

gxlbiscuit

ok nz youve crossed the line.. how about a nice cold glass of shut the hell up you dont know what my living conditions are like.... we arent allowed to work on our cars in the parking lot and since im 1500 miles from home hmmmmmm... cant fabricate **** using fibreglass and the usual bits of things you would need..... damn know it all you are officially in the range of saying **** you know nothing about... i guess the goal is to agrivate me.... dipshit