rs_1101

this is a great idea.
i disagree with everyone who says to enlarge the actual intercooler opening. simply moving the intake area forward will increase the amount of incoming air immensly.you want the air to bottleneck before it reaches the engine bay.

gxlbiscuit

jacking my own thread.. here are CHEAP Air intake temp gauges with senders.. ugly red but they do they job http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=7987629454

RX_AV8TR

I'm not sure what you mean by that but it's basic aerodynamics, the ONLY way you'll increase airflow without cutting and welding metal is by defelcting the the plastic scoop upwards, there's something else that it helps with, it's called air boundary layer.....Google.

The inside dimension of the scoop past the opening can't be changed, therefore neither can the volume of air going through it at a given speed....but...we can change the speed at which air goes through accelerating it by increasing the intake area....just like the front section of a jet engine.

Uhhh...damn!...this IS a soap box...ok sorry about that....I'll get out now...

gxlbiscuit

i should get a laminar flow system going across the hood then aye? re route my exhaust into a trillion pin holes all over the body of the car. :-)

RX_AV8TR

Roger...you can then call it RX-7 Turbo II Starfighter

gxlbiscuit

hahaha just some old p-51 technology. i hope you find your friend in puerto rico

NZConvertible

The area you need to increase is the area measured perpendicular to the airflow, which in this case is the little letterbox slot the air flows through. The only way to do this is to make the scoop horizontally wider and/or vertically higher. Increasing airflow to the IC is a very good idea, but what you're suggesting won't do that.

Sorry man, but these two comments are really stupid. If incorrect info is posted, it must be corrected. Otherwise the whole forum turns into a steaming pile of useless info that nobody can trust. If being proven wrong bothers you, you should not be posting stuff like this!

So a bigger scoop will not increase airflow? Please explain.

It's interesting that you think you can improve on a design that experienced engineers and aerodynamicists almost certainly tested extensively in a wind tunnel...

gxlbiscuit

and those engineers invented dtss, fuel cuts, a clock that will always tell you your lunch break is over, a super handy dandy headlight switch so i can drive with my headlights up and not on...or so the switch can fail with them stuck up... you are so right those engineers are the greatest...............

"The area you need to increase is the area measured perpendicular to the airflow, which in this case is the little letterbox slot the air flows through. The only way to do this is to make the scoop horizontally wider and/or vertically higher. Increasing airflow to the IC is a very good idea, but what you're suggesting won't do that. "

i swore that was the area being increased.... i should make the posted picture bigger


its not about being proven wrong its about introducing an idea and finding if someone can carry out the task. its about finding a way around a problem with approach. to be proven wrong is to come back with numbers saying it doesnt work. thanks for another UNPRODUCTIVE POST .......way to go you are my hero

RX_AV8TR

Sure it can be improved, remember that those engineers designed that scoop so that the air temp is lowered to a specific parameters given a temp raise in temp from copmressing at the turbo. They know what air temp they needed to reach so they could get air density parameters within the combustion chamber so they designed the IC and the scoop to do just that.

The moment you increase boost so does temp and your IC looses efficiency and all the numbers those engineers figured out at the wind tunned go down the drain, time to increase airflow through the IC or get a bigger one.

DAMN!!...back in the soap box...I did it again...

cardzrule

But wouldn't it still be the same old TMIC? Also, wouldn't the increase in the opening lessen the optimal divergent aspect ratio?

So where exactly is this area of higher pressure? I'm not very smart on things like this, but I Searched this forum and found this picture from another post. It looks to me like you would be placing the inlet in an area of LOWER pressure than stock. Could you please explain this for those of us who do not have as much college education as you?
http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/2ndgen/pics...es/image33.htm

gxlbiscuit

coleje ejakation whats that?(i never went to college) arrows moving out means higher pressure. im going for more air rammed in moreover the pressure differences. the moving it fowarding into the higher pressure area is just a bonus of the design.

cardzrule

But the arrows near the front of the hood move out more than the arrows where the stock TMIC is. Therefore, where you want to put the inlet is actually lower pressure than stock. Right?

And your ram air idea is part of the problem of the lessening divergent design that I mentioned. So you would get LESS ram air than the stock design. I got this info from using the Search function and looking over Ram Air posts that specify a DIVERGENT design in order to work. Your design is still divergent, but not as much as the stock design. Using the Search function I found that most people recommend a 4:1 divergent area ratio for heat exchanger inlets.

If you didn't go to college, and you don't Search this forum, then what basis do you have for your ideas? I think there may be a reason why lots of people are telling you that your design is bad. I also don't understand the purpose of your thread. Why don't you just simply ask the smart people on this forum for help rather than getting all upset when they tell you that your make-believe design is flawed?

Agent_D

iTrader: (2)

lol, how can you say the design is flawed, you have no proof, or actual numbers with a similar setup to prove it is flawed, just your idea's, and there is nothing wrong with that. i understand why he is getting upset, everyone wants to bash an idea without any FACT that it doesnt work.

to me, increasing the area where air goes in by 2 times means... well more air is gonna go in there, and assuming that the stock bonnet or duct, whatever you wanna call it, is pushing the max volume of air in the inlet (which im sure it is, since that was the design that was in mind) increasing the area of which air goes in means it will have a higher velocity.

if you have any actual numbers, or facts, from someone or somebody that has tested a scoop/bonnet/duct of this type, or of a similar type (IE: more area) then post those numbers and prove him wrong, otherwise stfu

NZConvertible

I didn't say it couldn't be improved, in fact I mentioned how it could be. I'm just suggesting that the statement "simply moving the intake area forward will increase the amount of incoming air immensly" is extremely presumptuous and is based on pure guesswork, as opposed to the methods used by the original designers to pick a location for the scoop.

It's also very well known that the further forward you are on the bonnet the lower the pressure is, so I'm not sure how moving the scoop forward is supposed to increase airflow into it...

gxlbiscuit

duuude watch the big words

gxlbiscuit

damn it why do i have to pull out the hate gun again ... damn it cardz... why the hell do i have to search for something like this. it was my freaking idea...bonehead. college doesnt mean $h!t its a piece of paper thats nice to have. doesnt mean you are any more or less smarter. the front of the hood is a higher pressure area. the back of the hood is a lower pressure area. that wwhy they make the muscle cars with backwards cowls and people play with hood spacers. moving it forward would increase the pressure differential. this would contribue to better performance. its just a lil rule pressure, temperature, electricity, likes to try to balence itself out.. from area of most concentration to least. applies to alot of things BASIC PHYSICS.

and last but not least you are not seeing the forest for the tree. the main goal is to increase the size of the intake area to promote better flow. the increased pressure differential is just a added bonus from moving the scoop forward.

im asking for someone to help create a scoop. people are trying to destroy it before its reborn. SO I ASKED THE FORUM FOR HELP. not open a hey lets be an asshols session. so help out or shut the hell up ..... BOTTOM LINE i want a scoop made to see if it works or not.. all this talk is bull$h!t.

NZConvertible

Wrong, it's the other way around. That's why on pretty much all cars the HVAC intake is at the bottom of the windscreen, where the presure is highest.

Reverse cowls were designed to force air into the engine bay, using the same high pressure area. Lifting the back of the hoods will have the same effect; air will be forced in, not sucked out.

gxlbiscuit

hahaha im an *** and *** backwards.. you are right... i still want the hole bigger

Agent_D

iTrader: (2)

im not one to contradict you NZ, cause i know you know your ****, but if you read his first post he didnt only suggest moving the scoop forwarrd, but giving it twice the area of air induction, or flow, of the original, he did not say, i just want it moved forward. and it seems your saying that it wont get better flow cause its moving to a lower pressure area, as was stated before, lower pressure doesnt mean its not going to get more air flow, it seems a lot of people like to associate low pressure with no air, which is stupid to think, cause if there was no air flow in "low pressure areas" then there would be no benefit to having any kind of scoop on any hood of any car.

all he is saying is, he wants one made to test out, and i think unless someone has some kind of proof that it wont do anything over a stock one, that none of you really know that its not going to help airflow, or the intercooler. its just a basic principle, or common practice, not to "talk ****", if you will, until you have some kind of proof to back it up.

CrispyRX7

iTrader: (139)

Thought you guys might find this image useful.
Regards,
Crispy

coldfire

iTrader: (1)

oh that's freaking awesome. definetly saving that diagram!
does someone want to fully explain the flow diagram? any aerodynamics engineers here?

it looks like the stock hood scoop is placed in a location that transitions flow, allowing the air coming up the hood to enter easier.
so i think it is safe to assume that the LOCATION of the stock scoop is fine, however the size could be an area of improvement.

CrispyRX7

iTrader: (139)

It's just a simple pressure map. High pressure arrows pointing towards the body, low pressure away. I wish it had numbers on it though. Dunno where I found it
Regards,
Crispy
- not an aero engineer

gxlbiscuit

forest for the trees ladies and gents. main priority is to increase the intake area.....

RX_AV8TR

Gotcha......What I mentioned before was for the present location, as far as the pressure stuff it's very simple, in general he is still right, the area on the hood where the pressure is the highest that's where airflow velocity is the highest too, less pressure, less velocity, the difirence in air velocity (high to low) is what creates low pressure.

Why is it fwd or back on some cars?.......drag vs airflow. Usually when you need more airflow you can do one of two, raise the scoop upwards like a mentioned or move it fwd, but that comes with other factors to deal with mainly drag.

It all works toghether, take a little bit on one side...you loose big on the other and vice versa you put it where the gains on one compensates the loss on the other, we're talking higher math here.

Damn this soap box!!!

gingenhagen

it's in the yamaguchi book. Let me see if I can find any aerodynamics kids around here...