Chimeron

I am curious, what supercharger would I be able to use on my fc to run about 6-7 psi. I would be running this on a non-turbo engine and don't yell at me about how this will be a bad setup.

I merely want to know what those who know would recommend. I hoping I can find something I can get from a junkyard or salvage yard (same damn thing) that will be able to have the right airflow.

Thanks guys.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Anything that you can physically fit will work. However, there is no actual kit produced, so the work will be 100% custom. There are several FCs around with a Paxton centrifugal unit, which fits well on the passenger side of the engine. Atkins Rotary sells Camden kits, but you need to convert to carb to run them.

Paxton/Nelson used to make kits, but very few were produced so good luck getting one. They also tended to crack mounting brackets and overspeed the compressor.

Tsunami

yeah any supercharger you can squeeze in there will make 6-7 psi, you just have to get the right pulley setup and bypass valve.

Chimeron

ok, thanks. I figured it would be all custom work since I'm looking to do this rather inexpensively and I'm not too concerned about the engine going. I'm sure it's on it's way out anyway. I was just hoping for some advice on a setup, like if someone had an idea of a specific charger from another car I could pick up and what size pulleys would be useful. I guess I'll have to figure that out myself oh well, then I'll know exactly what it's doing anyway right?

ddub

atkins rotary is working on a bolt on supercharger kit for FC's right now, the one they have thats already done you have to convert to carb, but they are currently working on a fuel injected version too.

BDoty311

Might look into getting a supercharger from either a T-bird Super coupe, or a GTP. I also remember reading somewhere that the Lightning/Harley supercharger suits a rotary better than the smaller ones.

cuntee

We are producing a Supercharger & a COMPLETE kit to simply bolt straight onto a EFI 2nd Gen Rx7 if interested e-mail: geri4lea@aol.com

chris406

The easiest way to do a supercharger for a n/a is with a centrifugal belt driven supercharger, like the vortech, procharger, paxton. There have only been a couple cars that were produced with factory centrifugal superchargers, on of which was the mustang in the 60's and i think very few of them were made. If you were to get a supercharger from the junkyard it would have to be a roots style unit, like the ones from supercoupe t-birds or GTP's. Those are eaton superchargers and they will produce 6-7psi but that would require most likely a carb conversion, cutsom IM. If you were to use one as a fuel injected application you would need a custom IM and some sort of throttle body elbow. If you want a good price on a centrifugal supercharger try ebay and try to find a p-600b model of ATI procharger. THat specific charger is one that is built for entry level kits on all types of cars, it will easily produce up to 20psi. I wouldn't recommend a paxton or vortech unit because their smaller superchargers weren't known to be all that effecient, while ATI has the fastest and most horsepower out there, paxton and vortech have do have some really nice bigger superchargers.

truespin88

Well, hmm.
I was watching a Vortech install on a V8 Mustang on Horsepower TV last week. It seems that all you would need to fab is the mounting bracket, and maybe a pulley change. I don't see why we would need to convert to carb with a Vortech. The Vortech I am thinking of is, for all I can see, a belt driven instead of exhaust driven turbo. No hotside - greatly reduced heat. You would have to fab a line from the output of the supercharger to the intake, but the Mustang application's TB placement is very similar to the FC, and I don't think clearance will be an issue if you remove the air pump if you want to mount it passenger side, or the a/c and p/s if you want to mouth driver side (and do an e-fan conversion0. In theory, you could mount it on the driver's side where the A/C is, run your intake for the belt-snail into the driver's side brake duct, tuck a short (heightwise), long intercooler (a la Porsche 951) into the front bumper fascia, and run your intake pipe back up behind the radiator to the TB. AFM movement would require a bit of lengthening to the AFM's wiring. Aside from supporting mods that would go with this (fuel pump, injectors, fuel pressure regulator, fuel controller, radiator) it seems fairly simple... Thoughts?

YearsOfDecay

I thought about this a lot before buying a TII.. and you're right, it should be a fairly simple install. Three Requirements though. Time, Standalone ECU knowledge, and money. When i got down to it, it was cheaper in the long run just to buy a TII and mod it!!

Chimeron

OK, I have a question and since this thread is back I'll ask it. I've been told that it is insane to put a blower in front of the throttle plates becuase the pressure will blow them out when they close for decelleration. Umm.. well what about a BOV? Wouldn't that solve that particular problem? Just put a valve in there to let off the pressure. Hell, I built that kind of valve all last summer and could even go set it to a very specific pressure.

truespin88

Chimeron, I was trying to say that if you use the correct style and positioning of the blower (i.e., the Vortech I mentioned) you can run JUST LIKE A TURBO on the intake side. Only difference being placement and setup. So in theory, the Vortech belt-driven supercharger is a very nice one for this application. Of course, if you used the Vortech to replace the turbo setup on a turbo motor, who knows what sorts of power you might command.

Chimeron

I'm sorry, I should've been clearer. I understand what you were saying, thank you also, I've been looking for some support for this type of thing. I'll be clearer now

I was discussing this in another section of the forum at one point and some one had said that if I put a certain type of supercharger, I can't remember what type, that the pressure generated would blow the throttle plates off because it wouldn't be able to stand the stress. I know some chargers have ways built in to deal with this but I'm not an expert so I'm asking you guys to explain this a little more. I would think that a pressure relief valve would allow this pressure to escape safely.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Find whoever told you that and give them a slap for me...

You could use a BOV, but you would be solving a problem that doesn't exist. A blower spins with the eccentric shaft, so when you close the throttles and the engine spins down, so will the blower. The turbo keeps making boost for a little while because it freewheels.

RETed

How about do you have $4,000 burning a hole in your pocket?


Recommended?
And then you ask what you can salvage from a junkyard?
I'd call that NOT recommended.


-Ted

wozzoom

I agree with Ted. Everyone who has ever gone down the supercharger on an NA block has come to the same conclusion...Bad idea.

Here is the *typical* chain of events of a SC install:
1) Owner thinks this can be done easily and cheaply
2) Owner buys a SC (used $250 new $1000) and begins fitting the unit
3) Owner quickly realizes that the custom fab work, pullies, idler pulley, belts cost well into the $500 range.
4) Installation is complete, but now the engine runs lean. Fuel upgrades begin: Bigger injectors, fuel pump, some kind of piggy back computer, fuel pressure regulator = another $600-800 bucks.
5) Car is tuned and running well for about a month. Then the motor pops due to the NA high compression rotors.
6) Rebuild engine with Turbo II internals. $2000-4000.
7) Owner relizes he could have sold his NA and bought a decent T-II for $3000-5000. (subtract the $1000-1500 from the sale of the NA)
8) Owner contemplates mistakes and wonders why he didn't listen to Ted!

UNLESS YOU HAVE MONEY TO BURN AND WANT A UNIQUE RX-7, skip the SC and find a turbo II.

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

I think one of the old paxton kits are for sale in the 2nd gen for sale section. You'd have to search a bit but it's there.

Chimeron

Thanks Aaron, that's what I thought.

I realize that a lot of fab work is required, I realize that running lean is bad, I realize that it could pop my engine, I realize..... I'm gonna stop now.

How about people running n/a rotors in their TII engines eh? They pop, normal TII's pop, other **** pops, the reason is the large amount of boost they try to use. I'm not trying to make this a drag racer or even a regular racer. I'm just looking for a mild performance boost on a car I've already put a lot of work into.

As far as the junkyard, maybe I should have said salvage yard, ya know those brand new Thunderbirds that get T-boned, yeah, they go somewhere too. *IT'S CALLED SALVAGE* Just cause it's used doesn't mean it's old or crap. How many other people have gotten things from junk yards that suited their purpose?


Now, if you aren't going to be helpful, please don't repeat that same damn crap over and over.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Now all the naysayers are really making me want to do this...I may have a GSL-SE (or another 2nd gen) coming my way, so perhaps we'll see just how complicated this is...

RETed

I don't use used parts from another others car on my FC.
No Fiero/Taurus/MR-2 fans
No Mustang rims
No Corvette air pumps

If you're so adamant about doing this, why are you asking our advice?

Just do it and report back with your findings.


-Ted

Chimeron

This is the last one of this type of post I will respond to because we really shouldn't be arguing anyway. The reason I'm asking advice IS, get ready here cause you might wanna quote me later, I DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING.

I'm asking advice so that people who have looked at doing this can aid me, people who may know for instance that "The easiest way to do a supercharger for a n/a is with a centrifugal belt driven supercharger, like the vortech, procharger, paxton" I don't want to start this blind and if I can get help from a forum DEVOTED to our cars then I damn sure and gonna try.

I'm sorry if I offended you by saying I want to try something or by my actions.

Parastie

Hehehehe, the SC bug bit me not too long ago and i've already made my shopping list. S-AFC II should be here sometime this week, already having modified exhaust used SC will be next. I might just end up with the only SC Vert in texas!

The centrifugal SCs are the easiest considering that it won't be necessary to modify the intake anymore then adding some new piping for the SC (at least that's what i think). You could always use the T2 intake though i'm not sure how necessary it is. I eventually plan on finding out.

My plan is to mount the SC around the area of the air pump. Obviously a mounting braket (brakets?) of some sort will have to be made, but i won't know how much until i order the SC and start building.

totallimmortal

OK sorry if someone already said it but i saw someone mentioned the camden kit for EFI, its supppose to be released in the end of marchn or early april, for $3800, they claim 176 to the wheels using stock injectors and up to 260 to the wheels using the stock ECU and bigger injectors, don't flame me i know everyone says if you change the injectors you gotta do sumthin to the ecu i'm just sayin what was on thier site, sounds interesting tho 3800 bucks some injectors and the SAFC II I already have with staight pipe exhaust should yeild well over 250 to the wheels

RETed

$3800 will get you the Turbo II with a full exhaust that will come close to those numbers with better reliability.

You're stressing the NA drivetrain components, so at the very least you better have the budget for an upgrade clutch (the Turbo II will probably need it to).  When you start to break drivetrain parts, would you still call it a "good deal"?

I want to see the kit hit 260 to the wheels myself...


-Ted

Chimeron

Lemme know how it goes Parasite