stronger rear end??
stronger rear end??
10-04-08, 03:37 PM
#5
Rotorhead
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
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I don't think there is any significant difference in torque holding between the two, but the S4 clutch-type is better for racing. Keep in mind that if you buy a used S4 LSD you are going to need to rebuild it, which is not cheap. The S5 VLSD is a disposable unit.
10-05-08, 04:34 PM
#6
i have seen s4 and s5 TII rear hold up to 400-500 HP. you can also have the ring and pinion cryo treated for around $150 wich will aid in its strength.
but if your throwing huge numbers like 600+, a ford 8.8 or a nine inch is the way to go. solid rear is the way to go for all out strait line traction and durability.
but if your throwing huge numbers like 600+, a ford 8.8 or a nine inch is the way to go. solid rear is the way to go for all out strait line traction and durability.
10-05-08, 04:43 PM
#7
i have seen s4 and s5 TII rear hold up to 400-500 HP. you can also have the ring and pinion cryo treated for around $150 wich will aid in its strength.
but if your throwing huge numbers like 600+, a ford 8.8 or a nine inch is the way to go. solid rear is the way to go for all out strait line traction and durability.
but if your throwing huge numbers like 600+, a ford 8.8 or a nine inch is the way to go. solid rear is the way to go for all out strait line traction and durability.
nah,im not a straight line person at all....but hey,at least you answered my question,,,but i still dont get one is diffrent from the other besides being rebuildable....i got one of each..
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10-05-08, 05:47 PM
#8
53.6%/46.4% - Crap!
For example, a basically stock LT4 (and many people mod them first):
I don't think you will see a torque curve like that on a rotary, and considering that most of the V8 guys are launching off drag radials or slicks I'd say it's a decent group of cars to reference.
If you really want strength then you have to go with an 8.8 or 9 inch solid rear or upgrade to the Cobra IRS, but that's if you are making pretty decent power.
I love when people assume that swapping an entire drivetrain over from another completely different car is the cheap and/or easy way out.
BTW, don't worry about my sig, that's the factory N/A open diff hard at work.
Last edited by Rexpelagi; 10-05-08 at 05:50 PM.
10-05-08, 07:40 PM
#11
correcting you..your wrong...thats the diffrence between lsd and an open differential....LSD (depending on the various types/engagment) puts power to both of the wheels whare as an open diffrential has one wheel with the power on a turn( given you dont lock it prior to the durn)
10-05-08, 07:49 PM
#12
53.6%/46.4% - Crap!
In the context of this discussion both the S4 and S5 TII rears are limited slip and supply power to both wheels. The S4 is a clutch type and the S5 is a viscous type as mentioned above.
On the weaker side the N/A rear ends on some models, such as the GXL, I believe came with a weaker LSD in the S4 years. However, they switched to open diffs in the S5.
10-06-08, 09:29 PM
#14
Lives on the Forum
Now you're going to argue that the non-turbo rear end is strong enough?
Sorry, try again...
I love when people assume that swapping an entire drivetrain over from another completely different car is the cheap and/or easy way out.
I never said anything about swapping drivetrains...
-Ted
10-07-08, 06:20 AM
#15
53.6%/46.4% - Crap!
Anyway, I ran the non-turbo rear end on my car for awhile. I didn't do this because I was cheap necessarily but I did it as a step to another rear, and I wasn't sure what I wanted to go with.
The N/A rear lasted 15 passes on street tires with 1800 rpm launches (it likely could have gone more) and then 5 passes on M/T ET Street Radials with 3000-3500 clutch drops. It finally blew the spider gears on the 6th pass where I tried a 4000 clutch drop. I was able to cut a 1.7 60' before it broke.
This is on an LT1/T56 combo with the same sort of torque curve as the dyno I posted above.
I entirely expected it to break at some point and I had a TII rear ready to go for months, I was just waiting to see what it could take.
Considering that most people on here say how weak they are I was impressed that something designed for 145 ft-lbs at the flywheel could hold up to around 300 ft-lbs at the wheels.
10-07-08, 06:30 PM
#19
the NA rear is not "weak". but it is no where close to the TII rear in strength and durability.
the strength usually comes from the ring gear and pinion. usually the bigger, the stronger. as in a for 8.8 is 8.8 inches. and the 9 inch, is just that. 9 inch ring gear.
the TII ring gear is 8 inchs. along with the FD and rx8. and all three are swappable. and the NA is 7 inch ring gear and is swappable with the 7inch ring gear from the 1st gen.
now you can cryo treat the ring gear on the NA rears for less than buying a TII rear wich will prolong it breaking with high HP. road race guys do it to all moving parts where they must remain stock.
but nothing is forever with rear ends and racing. remember that these parts we get used are 20 years old with most likely a lot of abuse. even newly built and upgraded 9" rears explode...
the strength usually comes from the ring gear and pinion. usually the bigger, the stronger. as in a for 8.8 is 8.8 inches. and the 9 inch, is just that. 9 inch ring gear.
the TII ring gear is 8 inchs. along with the FD and rx8. and all three are swappable. and the NA is 7 inch ring gear and is swappable with the 7inch ring gear from the 1st gen.
now you can cryo treat the ring gear on the NA rears for less than buying a TII rear wich will prolong it breaking with high HP. road race guys do it to all moving parts where they must remain stock.
but nothing is forever with rear ends and racing. remember that these parts we get used are 20 years old with most likely a lot of abuse. even newly built and upgraded 9" rears explode...
10-07-08, 07:21 PM
#21
53.6%/46.4% - Crap!
It all depends on what you are doing and how you are driving. I'm sure I could have ran street tires with limited drag strip use and seen some decent life out of the rear (this is the open diff, I think the n/a lsd may have snapped a half-shaft real fast).
When you can hook at 4k with 275/40/17 drag radials something isn't going to like it, in this case the spider gears which should have teeth (left and right in this picture).
At the same time that rear was able to take this, at least a few times anyway:
My comment was just that they aren't as weak as people may say, but I would never recommend running something that requires you to be excessively careful. I would answer your question by saying they don't hold 300 hp for very long if you are doing what I was doing, and they definitely won't hold it forever whatever you are doing. So in short, no it won't.
However, the same general statement can be applied to a TII rear. You can definitely break it in the right situation even if you don't have a lot of torque. It's how you drive and what you are doing.
When you can hook at 4k with 275/40/17 drag radials something isn't going to like it, in this case the spider gears which should have teeth (left and right in this picture).
At the same time that rear was able to take this, at least a few times anyway:
My comment was just that they aren't as weak as people may say, but I would never recommend running something that requires you to be excessively careful. I would answer your question by saying they don't hold 300 hp for very long if you are doing what I was doing, and they definitely won't hold it forever whatever you are doing. So in short, no it won't.
However, the same general statement can be applied to a TII rear. You can definitely break it in the right situation even if you don't have a lot of torque. It's how you drive and what you are doing.
Last edited by Rexpelagi; 10-07-08 at 07:30 PM.
10-07-08, 08:42 PM
#23
wow, you actually broke the gears on the diff! usually it would be the ring gear to go.
and are you doing a wheel stand there???
NA's are a lot stronger than people make them out to be. but like i said above, most diffs in our cars are 20 years old with plenty of abuse on them.
and are you doing a wheel stand there???
NA's are a lot stronger than people make them out to be. but like i said above, most diffs in our cars are 20 years old with plenty of abuse on them.
10-08-08, 09:15 PM
#24
53.6%/46.4% - Crap!
wow, you actually broke the gears on the diff! usually it would be the ring gear to go.
and are you doing a wheel stand there???
NA's are a lot stronger than people make them out to be. but like i said above, most diffs in our cars are 20 years old with plenty of abuse on them.
and are you doing a wheel stand there???
NA's are a lot stronger than people make them out to be. but like i said above, most diffs in our cars are 20 years old with plenty of abuse on them.
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