White_FC

Well sounds like your wideband is working then.

Your still 14+:1 AFR's under load?
If so, something is messed up and i'd be EXTREMLY suprised if it actually drove without bucking... alot..

HAILERS

Yes, connector off, the air will be dumped overboard. Ever notice that even with the blue connector on, the air gets dumped at 3800 rpm.

A repeat of what WhiteFC said. Something on your car is messed up if your reading 14's at wide open throttle. Is the vacuum hose connected to your FPR???? Are you sure its vacuum?

Once again, go drive the car and tell us what the readings are at wide open throttle. The airpump and acv shouldn't have been effecting anything at wide open throttle in the first place. But it's good to see that your airpump/acv and solenoids were working right in the first place.

HAILERS

I went back and looked at your original post again. A 86 n/a running lean at wot AND the settings function *** backwards. HINT: I don't know what, but the SAFC is NOT connected up right or not programmed by you right. Do you have the English instructions for it?

foild

ok guys..
i will do this.
on sunday, i will take pictures of everything.
i will go through the SAFC2 setup, and i will take pictures of every change i do to the safc2, and the results in my wideband log.
i will post wideband and safc2 pics on this thread mid sunday.

i dont know what else to say...
if my wideband is working, and you can tell this by the reading at idle, compaired to the reading at idle with blue connector off, the SAFC2 would have nothing to do with my lean conditions.

all i know is that it reads backwards.. yes.. this is a problem.. but, like i said, me and Ddub had the same problems, and he was at a dyno at the time who checked everything over cllosely, and everything was wired right.

i also know that when i first set it up, and saw the lean reading, i tried to + "add" fuel, after adding about 15%, and watching the AFR's get leaner and leaner to the point that my car WOULD buck and ****, i knew something was wrong. from then on i -"subtracted" fuel on the SAFC2, which in turn made my readings get richer.

as of now i have reset all of my SAFC2, and re did the the settings.
4cyl (up and to right if i beleive)
flap
5 in 5 out

i am runing at no correction for the time being untill we figure this out.

i appreciate everyones help, and look forward to figuring out the sollution to this problem.
this problem is bombarding my head with thoughts and it is driving me crazy.

foild

also, as you may or may not have noticed, i am a bit of a beginer with rotary's

but... throw the wideband and the safc2 out of the picture.

it says i am running lean at wot.. there must be something causing this..

HAILERS

Wrong size injectors? Plug off a secondary injector? Vacuum hose off the fpr?

You've a reading that is for %correction. Does it change when driving thru different rpms?

foild

oh yes,
it does change... but not anymore since i put all the corrections back to 0

i doubt it is wrong size injectors because my car is totally original (as far as i know) - its got 110,000 original kms on it also... nothing has been done to the engine internally as far as i know (only one owner before me, and it was some lady doctor who i doubt spins wrenches, let alone chaneg the injectors).
i will check the injector plugs, although i dont know where they are.
also, i will check the vacuum hose on the fpr, although i dont know where that is either
lol

foild

ok.. figured out were the secondaries were... the plugs are attached properly.
also, i checkedthe FPR. the vacume hose is attached properly.
one thing that i was wondering about.. it appears to the untrained eye that i can move the secondaries side to side (in a clockwise/counter clockwise fasion), but the are seated properly, and everything is atatched and secured.

both of the enjectors move the same amount, so to me it seems fine... but.. just a thought..
**** im really worried/confused. everything in my engine bay is pretty spotless, no tampering has happened in or around the engine bay besides my cone intake.

every vacume hose i see is attacvhed, and i can see no unplugged vacume lines, and i cannot see any non plugged nipples or anything.

something here is messed.

(p.s. my car feels fine, no bucking.. nothing... feels absolutly fine.)

foild

could it be the fuel filter?

i wonder if that needs changing.. i have no idea when it was last changed... i cant find any record of it.

Parastie

I completely clogged fuel filter would cause the engine to run lean, and it's not too expensive or difficult to replace.

Also, you should need to worry about the air going into the exhaust if you're not running a cat, the air is only used to keep the cat from clogging.

foild

who said anything about 720cc injectors?

all my injectors are stock.

orangegarage

Ive been fixing cars for 15+ years, any time the mixture is going the wrong way, yes i said every time, the o2 sensor is the problem. moniter the mixture with is pluged in, and with it unplugged, if there is no difference, replace it. Also to check that your feed back system is working, gound the wire that plugs into the o2. Not the o2 sensor wire, but the wire that goes to the computer, dont worry, it wont hurt the computor. If every thing is working right, you shoud go extremely rich.

NZConvertible

The O2 sensor is only used under light-load cruise conditions. It is ignored by the ECU in all other driving conditions. It is highly unlikely it is causing this problem.

foild

hrmm..
im stumped.

HAILERS

No. Your not stumped. You answered your own question, in a way. I'd change the fuel filter and while your at it, buy a filter/sock for the fuel pump and replace that also. It may look clear, but those *socks* get a varnish over them that WILL cause less than optimal fuel flow.

While I'm here, I'll repeat what I think someone said before..........since your sure your set to flap/o5-05/and the arrow up and to the right, I'd suggest doing the INITIALIZE that is described in the manual and then reinstall those settings.

Are the white and the yellow SAFC wires possibly crossed? Mixed up?

The only time I saw the rich/lean arrows work backwards was when I had hit *hot wire* accidentaly. I re-initialized and reset the configuration to flap etc.

So since I've tried to help, even though unsuccessfully, will you do this........Drive the car at a steady speed. Say fifty five or sixty mph. Hold that speed for a few moments, then just let off the gas pedal just a hairs breath. Question: say the afr was 14.7 while cruising. Did it drop to about 13afr when you just just a hairs breath?

foild

i will try that for sure.
if i let off the gas a little, my engine/exhaust makes a different tone.
also, when i decelerate i run 21 AFR consistantly.

if i decide to rule out the acv and air pump by blocking them off, do i need a block off plate for the split air pipe?
and.. would i need to cap off the split air pipe..

will my 6 ports still actuate if i cap the split air pipe (since backpressure would still be going to the ports via the T)

foild

apparently according to the FSM air is injected into the "split air" upon acceleration and heavy load... this is done via the switching valve. would removing the connector to the switching valve, and that green connector be ok if i left it that way forever?
i know we have come to the conclusion that leaving the green connector off would be fine, but what about the switching valve?

foild

bump

HAILERS

If you've a series four, and you remove the airpump and the acv, you don't need to block off the split air pipe. The split air pipe has a checkvalve just above the tee that feeds the aux ports. It traps the exaust air in the split air pipe so the actuators should work if there is enough back pressure in the exaust.

Green connector??????? I missed something here.

The sad part about removing the airpump, is that now you WILL have a water pump problem. The water pump uses that airpump pulley as a idler pulley (sort of). No air pump...results in a slipping water pump belt at higher rpms.

Just in case..the airpump air has nothing to do with aux ports opening.

The switching solenoid is GREY and the relief solenoid is BLUE.

If you have no catalytic converter, why worry about any of this? Grey/Blue solenoids etc? Or do you have a catalytic converter?

If you leave the airpump on and the acv on but pull the Blue connector, then almost all the air should go overboard. So you could just leave the airpump and acv on the car. If you need pressure to actuate the auxillary ports, you could buy a SummitRacing RPM switching device and use the air b/t the airpump and the acv for the pressure source. Plus using one of the unused solenoids for the open/close valve for the aux ports.

foild

well, i have no cat.
my exhaust system is as follows:

stock manifold.
downpipe
straightpipe to corksport single exit exhaust.

i dont want any air going to the exhaust, so i can get correct AFR readings at WOT.

right now i get anywhere from 14 - 17 afr at wot on average.

now.. to some people this seems overly lean for an NA, but i dont buck or bogout.

i also dont backfire. ---- so to me, this got me thinking.. is my NA running realy lean, or is it my wideband.

well, according to everyone there is no air injected into the exhaust unless it is WOT.

so.. in this case, since i am giving you my AFR's at WOT, they should be correct.

therefore, why is my car running so lean??? - i have checked the vacume line @ the FPR, i have checked the connectors on the the injectors...

should i just add fuel on the SAFC2, to get 13:1 ---- or should i be wondering wtf is causing these lean conditions??

another thing that is worrying me, is that if i read 15 at WOT, and i adjust this via the SAFC2 to get 13:1, and in all reality i am actuallly running rich as it is (like people say my na should be runing, as most NA's run pig rich) this will worsen my fuel economy, and hurt my engine...


now, i am sitting here with a 700$ worth of equiptment, (wideband and SAFC2) and i cant even utilize them.

foild

speaking of which. what would be average AFR for a mildly stock NA (s4) at WOT??

White_FC

NOT between 14 - 17:1...

Hell you'd be lucky to CRUISE at those sort of AFR's without bucking like a rodeo rider.

HAILERS

You seem to have some doubt about the air from the airpump causing wrong readings. SO...do this instead....remove the belt from the airpump. You'll then see that pulling the Blue plug off has the same effect as removing the belt.

If the afr's are still the same, in the upper 14's, I'd start to suspect the wideband. Or, just for grins, add fuel with the safc just to see how that effects the afr readings at wide open throttle.

What is tthe brand name of the wideband? Curious.

foild

check this.
heres is the wideband pic i promised. i doubt it is the wideband that is the problem, because at idle it is around 11.8 AFR (thanks to hailers for telling me to pull that plug')
here is a pic of the wideband with the best captions i could provide. this is a WOT run with the blue connecto unplugged.

see for yourself what i am being confused by.... this may or may not be what i should be seeing from a 1986 NA with k&n cone intake and straight exhaust (no cats)

if this graph seems realistic... i will shut up and just tune with the SAFC. if it isn't, this is where i get worried and need advice on how to figure out wtf is making me run lean.

once again.. this is a s4 NA with intake/exhaust (no cats)

foild

pics