Save the Rotary Engine!
#101
Rotary Enthusiast
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: bloomington, mn
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have worked in numerous dealership positions over the years and they hands down make the money in the service/parts aisle. Used cars a close second depending on the manager. New cars would not keep the lights on with how thin the profit margins are to what they pay the manufacturer and shipping charges to get the dropped at the lot.
Techs do get **** on though.
Techs do get **** on though.
#102
Sharp Claws
iTrader: (30)
I'm really surprised by this because up here i can't think of a dealership that charges less than $110 an hour for service. Yeah some jobs are a flat rate but they are not cheap. Cost me $150 to have the rear drums on my truck turned at my last dealership visit. I know dealers and shops in general have a lot of overhead but $95?
#103
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Posts: 30,900
Received 2,643 Likes
on
1,872 Posts
you needed to think outside the box! all the "top" techs learned how to dispatch themselves
#104
Sharp Claws
iTrader: (30)
at the dealership i used to work at, the GM makes $22,000 a month, and he's so useless he has the parts counter guy do the spreadsheet/profit graph, which is how we know what he makes. the owner makes about the same, as does the owners dad…. so yes there is a lot of overhead.
its the same here, in 2008 the management cut everyones pay (but theirs), by about 50%
you needed to think outside the box! all the "top" techs learned how to dispatch themselves
its the same here, in 2008 the management cut everyones pay (but theirs), by about 50%
you needed to think outside the box! all the "top" techs learned how to dispatch themselves
it's just bad when the people doing the work are some of the lowest paid in the chain. but i probably wouldn't make a good service writer, because i would have a difficult time lying to people.
all you really need is a parts person(they make money off the parts so it is separate from the service dept) and a service writer to every 4 techs. a non lazy general manager/assistant could take the job of the service manager. some dealers had no dispatcher, others had more and less service writers per tech ratio depending on how good they were.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 11-26-13 at 01:18 PM.
#105
Information Regurgitator
Been following this thread and thinking on it. I think it has been stated they would have to fix the reliability and fuel consumption issues. There are n/a S4 cars that made it to 200 to 250k so it seems the potential is there, though EPA regs probably prevent them from injecting the amount of oil that those cars did and pass emissions at the same time. Seems if they had a light car say 2700lbs max with a bump over 200hp and at least 25mpg they could play in the FR-S/BRZ segment. But engine would have to make it to at least 200k. Question is if they could pull it off could they over come the black eyes given to them by the 3rd gen Rx-7 and the Rx-8?
#106
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Posts: 30,900
Received 2,643 Likes
on
1,872 Posts
Been following this thread and thinking on it. I think it has been stated they would have to fix the reliability and fuel consumption issues. There are n/a S4 cars that made it to 200 to 250k so it seems the potential is there, though EPA regs probably prevent them from injecting the amount of oil that those cars did and pass emissions at the same time. Seems if they had a light car say 2700lbs max with a bump over 200hp and at least 25mpg they could play in the FR-S/BRZ segment. But engine would have to make it to at least 200k. Question is if they could pull it off could they over come the black eyes given to them by the 3rd gen Rx-7 and the Rx-8?
so yeah your 200k life span is in the ballpark, although, 150k is probably better, as they need to give you a reason to buy the new one.
*a record high
#107
Lives on the Forum
iTrader: (8)
i was going to ask, how many miles does the first owner put on a car, really. i googled it, which in stand up comedy is a punchline, and the average age of a car in the US is 11.4 years*, if you drive 15,000miles a year, which is also average, that is 171,000 miles.
so yeah your 200k life span is in the ballpark, although, 150k is probably better, as they need to give you a reason to buy the new one.
so yeah your 200k life span is in the ballpark, although, 150k is probably better, as they need to give you a reason to buy the new one.
#109
Lives on the Forum
iTrader: (8)
I've had people buy rx8s, drive them for a few weeks until they encounter stalling/hot restart issues, then contact me for a rebuild. As soon as they pick the car up and drive it home, they post it on craigslist for sale. I've seen them get sold THE SAME WEEK THE BUYER PICKED IT UP FROM ME. I know this because the new owner usually calls or emails me asking questions about it. Most rx8s that I've run a history check on, are already on their 4th or 6th owner. So you do the math, that's one owner for a couple of years.
IF you watch craigslist in your area often, you will see the same cars get listed, sold, and relisted as it goes through owners. Hell, a couple of years ago there was an FC that was listed. I went and looked at it, put in an offer, didn't buy. Ad went down after a few weeks. About 3 months later, the same car pops up in a different town with a bad transmission (automatic). Put in an offer, didn't buy. Ad comes down. About 3 months later, THE SAME CAR pops back up in a different town. Ad states it has a brand new rebuilt transmission and a blown engine, lol. Put in an offer, went and picked the car up, and now it's sitting in my storage lot. lol.
IF you watch craigslist in your area often, you will see the same cars get listed, sold, and relisted as it goes through owners. Hell, a couple of years ago there was an FC that was listed. I went and looked at it, put in an offer, didn't buy. Ad went down after a few weeks. About 3 months later, the same car pops up in a different town with a bad transmission (automatic). Put in an offer, didn't buy. Ad comes down. About 3 months later, THE SAME CAR pops back up in a different town. Ad states it has a brand new rebuilt transmission and a blown engine, lol. Put in an offer, went and picked the car up, and now it's sitting in my storage lot. lol.
#111
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Posts: 30,900
Received 2,643 Likes
on
1,872 Posts
so thats basically the warranty period for the Rx8… so this is remarkably achievable
there is an Rx8 here that has been on CL for a year and a half. its an 04, with 120k on it and a salvage title, so i'm not sure its worth anything at all, and he's asking $6500….
theres another one that was up for a while, another 04 Rx8, somehow the engine is missing, no front bumper (reinforcement is tweaked too), the rest of the car looks ok, $1800, a few weeks later its $1600, and you get lien sale paperwork for a salvage title, i did the math, and that cars value is negative….
theres another one that was up for a while, another 04 Rx8, somehow the engine is missing, no front bumper (reinforcement is tweaked too), the rest of the car looks ok, $1800, a few weeks later its $1600, and you get lien sale paperwork for a salvage title, i did the math, and that cars value is negative….
#112
Lives on the Forum
iTrader: (8)
so thats basically the warranty period for the Rx8… so this is remarkably achievable
there is an Rx8 here that has been on CL for a year and a half. its an 04, with 120k on it and a salvage title, so i'm not sure its worth anything at all, and he's asking $6500….
theres another one that was up for a while, another 04 Rx8, somehow the engine is missing, no front bumper (reinforcement is tweaked too), the rest of the car looks ok, $1800, a few weeks later its $1600, and you get lien sale paperwork for a salvage title, i did the math, and that cars value is negative….
there is an Rx8 here that has been on CL for a year and a half. its an 04, with 120k on it and a salvage title, so i'm not sure its worth anything at all, and he's asking $6500….
theres another one that was up for a while, another 04 Rx8, somehow the engine is missing, no front bumper (reinforcement is tweaked too), the rest of the car looks ok, $1800, a few weeks later its $1600, and you get lien sale paperwork for a salvage title, i did the math, and that cars value is negative….
#113
Sharp Claws
iTrader: (30)
i have hard time wanting to flip the 8's, at any given time there's dozens for sale at or below blue book. why pay $2-3k, spend weeks fixing it up and just maybe get what i would if i spent it rebuilding someone's engine instead? guaranteed money versus the possibility of making something.
same goes for FCs, FBs no way in hell, FDs are the only rotary car you can make money on flipping side from the rare occasions of finding an exceptional deal on an FC or old school rotary car/truck. and even finding FDs for less than $5k that need work hasn't been happening in some time.
the only one we bought we bought to keep it, as it replaced our old E36 which we sold for what we paid for it without even listing it. my gf seems to think it's a $9k car, i see a $5-6k car with a salvage title if i fix every little thing wrong with it.
same goes for FCs, FBs no way in hell, FDs are the only rotary car you can make money on flipping side from the rare occasions of finding an exceptional deal on an FC or old school rotary car/truck. and even finding FDs for less than $5k that need work hasn't been happening in some time.
the only one we bought we bought to keep it, as it replaced our old E36 which we sold for what we paid for it without even listing it. my gf seems to think it's a $9k car, i see a $5-6k car with a salvage title if i fix every little thing wrong with it.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 11-27-13 at 07:19 PM.
#115
TaK
iTrader: (1)
Why didn't Mazda put a oil gauge that works like a fuel gauge so you no when it needs oil?
Why are all rx7&8s so hard to work on?
They crammed so many points of failure on the motor you can't tell that it's a 1.3L
Why didn't they create air flow around the motor for extra cooling.
. I'm not totally convinced that two plugs per rotor is necessary. And if it does help why did they put the trailing so high that a single misfire will distory an engine.
The rotary and the rx7 could of been perfect. Only 3 moving parts there shouldn't be any reliability issues on a factory rotary engine!
Why are all rx7&8s so hard to work on?
They crammed so many points of failure on the motor you can't tell that it's a 1.3L
Why didn't they create air flow around the motor for extra cooling.
. I'm not totally convinced that two plugs per rotor is necessary. And if it does help why did they put the trailing so high that a single misfire will distory an engine.
The rotary and the rx7 could of been perfect. Only 3 moving parts there shouldn't be any reliability issues on a factory rotary engine!
#117
Engine, Not Motor
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 29,789
Likes: 0
Received 109 Likes
on
92 Posts
Why are all rx7&8s so hard to work on?
They crammed so many points of failure on the motor you can't tell that it's a 1.3L
Why didn't they create air flow around the motor for extra cooling.
. I'm not totally convinced that two plugs per rotor is necessary. And if it does help why did they put the trailing so high that a single misfire will distory an engine.
The rotary and the rx7 could of been perfect. Only 3 moving parts there shouldn't be any reliability issues on a factory rotary engine!
#118
Anything built by humans (and with moving parts, regardless of how many or how few) will at some point face some amount of reliability issues. It's part of nature, there's no way around it. Great post Aaron
#119
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Posts: 30,900
Received 2,643 Likes
on
1,872 Posts
Mazda's are the easiest cars on the planet to work on, the Rx8 in particular is very good. just about every job you need to do on the Rx8 can be done in less than a half an hour.
true, there is also a double standard at work. Toyota is perceived as building reliable cars, yet they had a multi year period where they recalled more cars than they sold.
also true, well except for the occasional Roman aqueduct, THOSE are built very well.
There are reliability issues on everything. I just sent back a laser printer which was DOA out of the box. With all the laser printers we make and as well as the tech is understood, there shouldn't be any reliability issues on a factory laser printer? There is always some margin of failure.
also true, well except for the occasional Roman aqueduct, THOSE are built very well.
#120
Retired Moderator, RIP
iTrader: (142)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Smiths Falls.(near Ottawa!.Mapquest IT!)
Posts: 25,581
Likes: 0
Received 131 Likes
on
114 Posts
Post#84 By RotaryResurrection...lol!
I would have Jammed a Barbara Streisand "Yentl" CD in the Stereo...That or Barry Manilow..hahahhahaha!
I would have Jammed a Barbara Streisand "Yentl" CD in the Stereo...That or Barry Manilow..hahahhahaha!
#122
TaK
iTrader: (1)
A oil level gauge is smarter. I oil light might not be working. If you drive 3000miles and your gauge hasn't moved you know it's not working.
Rx7/8 easy I work on. Only of it modded. Mazda could of been more clever in the engine bay making everything accessible and simple. Try changing and air filter rx8 or plugs. You have to jack the car up.
The suspension rear trans all easy to work on. Anything engine related is unnecessrily difficult.
Rx7/8 easy I work on. Only of it modded. Mazda could of been more clever in the engine bay making everything accessible and simple. Try changing and air filter rx8 or plugs. You have to jack the car up.
The suspension rear trans all easy to work on. Anything engine related is unnecessrily difficult.
Last edited by ghost1000; 11-30-13 at 01:39 PM.
#123
TaK
iTrader: (1)
There is a difference between a manufacturing error and a design flaw.
Rotarys don't have a bad reputation because they run perfect all the time and last forever. But with only 3 moving parts a rotary can.
Felix Wankel designed a very good engine Mazda just tried to make money on it in a selfish way, Expensive to buy and own. There are a few of us who know how good a well built rotary can be.
Rotarys don't have a bad reputation because they run perfect all the time and last forever. But with only 3 moving parts a rotary can.
Felix Wankel designed a very good engine Mazda just tried to make money on it in a selfish way, Expensive to buy and own. There are a few of us who know how good a well built rotary can be.
Last edited by ghost1000; 11-30-13 at 01:47 PM.
#124
Engine, Not Motor
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 29,789
Likes: 0
Received 109 Likes
on
92 Posts
The light self-checks every time you start the car like all the other idiot lights do. If they don't light up with the key on "RUN" and the engine not running, the bulb is burned out. The oil level sender is also connected to the buzzer. This by the way is the same as the coolant level.
Rx7/8 easy I work on. Only of it modded. Mazda could of been more clever in the engine bay making everything accessible and simple.
You want to talk poor design: I just filled up the wather fluid on my parent's Chrysler Intrepid. In Chrysler's infinite wisdom, the filler cap is halfway under the driver fender lip!
Try changing and air filter rx8 or plugs. You have to jack the car up.
And having 3 moving parts is a double edged sword. There is less chance of a failure with fewer parts, but fewer parts means that any type of failure has more chance of being catastrhphic. And if you seriously think an engine can be made to "run perfect all the time and last forever" then you need to read up on metalurgy, electrical engineering, thermals and all the other disciplines which will explain how it's impossible to make a perfect machine.
Felix Wankel designed a very good engine Mazda just tried to make money on it in a selfish way,
And making money in a selfish way? What is that even supposed to mean? Mazda bought a license from NSU to produce the engine, just like most manufacturers at the time. The difference is that Mazda nearly went broke perfecting it for sale, and then sold it at a profit like any company which opes to survive would do. Would you be shocked that I would not build you an engine for free? So what would you expect Mazda to do? And do you really think they didn't lose money on the RX-8?
#125
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
A oil level gauge is smarter. I oil light might not be working. If you drive 3000miles and your gauge hasn't moved you know it's not working.
Rx7/8 easy I work on. Only of it modded. Mazda could of been more clever in the engine bay making everything accessible and simple. Try changing and air filter rx8 or plugs. You have to jack the car up.
The suspension rear trans all easy to work on. Anything engine related is unnecessrily difficult.
Rx7/8 easy I work on. Only of it modded. Mazda could of been more clever in the engine bay making everything accessible and simple. Try changing and air filter rx8 or plugs. You have to jack the car up.
The suspension rear trans all easy to work on. Anything engine related is unnecessrily difficult.
There is a difference between a manufacturing error and a design flaw.
Rotarys don't have a bad reputation because they run perfect all the time and last forever. But with only 3 moving parts a rotary can.
Felix Wankel designed a very good engine Mazda just tried to make money on it in a selfish way, Expensive to buy and own. There are a few of us who know how good a well built rotary can be.
Rotarys don't have a bad reputation because they run perfect all the time and last forever. But with only 3 moving parts a rotary can.
Felix Wankel designed a very good engine Mazda just tried to make money on it in a selfish way, Expensive to buy and own. There are a few of us who know how good a well built rotary can be.
seriously though, i find it hard to make sense of a lot of what you're saying in these posts. Rx-7s are so easy that i find myself saying "why couldn't they do this like the Rx-7?" with just about EVERY other car i work on. the Rx-8 is a little more tedious, but it's certainly NOT the most ridiculous. try changing the intake manifold gaskets on an Impala and let me know which is worse. i change the air filter and plugs on my Rx-8 just fine.
Aaron already commented on your 3 parts = it CAN run forever comment, so all i can say is ditto. it can't happen and 3 moving parts is both a blessing and a curse.
why don't you give some examples of your ideas (and i really mean that, no sarcasm)?