bigdv519

iTrader: (3)

S4 TII Drivetrain to S5 NA Vert

This could, quite possibly, be the craziest drivetrain swap I've ever contimplated. But my 90 NA Vert is in dire need of a light flywheel, a new ACT clutch, and numerous Energy bushings. And she has a few drivetrain problems ie: no third or fouth gear, that rearend bushing thats wacks the crap out of the car when I let off the gas, no LSD (this is not really a problem but it could be for the sake of swapping it :-)). It would also make sense to replace broken things with something of higher strenght.

So, I do have a complete 87 TII drivetrain.

Questions:

1. Will a complete 87 TII drivetrain directly bolt up to a 90 Vert engine?

2. Will a complete 87 TII drivetrain directly bolt up to a 90 Vert chassis?

3. If the drivetrain is interchangable, what counterweights, if any, need to be changed?

4. What electrical problems could I encounter. There are a few wires that run from the 90 NA vert tranny to the wiring harness.

5. Isn't a GTUs basically a TII without the TII engine/harness.

Thanks a whole bunch!!! You guys have never failed to provide me with top quality info. I think this is my first thread without some BS in it, so I hope Im maturing to a true rotory enthusiast. :-)

bigdv519

iTrader: (3)

Anyone???

totallimmortal

i don't think gtus had a tii drivetrain just different gear and a sportier car, i'm pretty sure it should all bolt up, you'll need tii flywheel of course as well as the starter, the wireing shouldn't be to hard to convert considering the availibility of FSMs for all model FCs on the internet. hmm what else...... you may need the tii counterwieght i'm just telling you what i remember from researching but someone who hasn done it should be able to fill in my blanks soon

ddub

1. Yes, this is assuming you change the flywheel and clutch on the engine, too.
2. Yes
3. You can do a few things, get an s5 TII flywheel and it will have the built in counterweight to match the front counterweight, you can get an aftermarket flywheel with an S5 auto counterweight to match the front, or you can put in an S4 TII flywheel (either stock or aftermarket with s4 counterweight) and switch the front counterweight to an s4 one.
4. Shouldn't be many, not really sure about this one but search I'm sure it's been talked about enough
5. GTUs does not have a TII drivetrain, it has a normal N/A tranny, driveshaft, 4.33 N/A rear end, N/A half-shafts, etc...

flamin-roids

Yes everything will bolt directly to it. However you will need a S5 auto counter wieght if you go aftermarket flywheel unless you go stock TII flywheel in which case you'll need a S5 TII flywheel. A S4 TII flywheel will cause problems. And this is coming from someone with a S4 TII drivetrain in his S5 N/A.

bigdv519

iTrader: (3)

You guys are great!!! I dont know what I would do without the help I get here!!!

dDuB, you say I can get an aftermarket flywheel. Ok, so Ill get the RB lightweight steel flywheel. Just making sure I read you correctly, but I need to get a S4 TII lightweight steel flywheel. THEN replace my S5 counterweight with a S4 TII counterweight?

That sounds about right.

Now flamin-roids, if I read you correctly, I have to get a S5 auto counterweight if I want to get an aftermarket flywheel?

Also, you say that I can just get a S5 TII flywheel, in which case I would NOT have to change my counterweight. Couldnt I just get an aftermarket S5 flywheel and still not have to change the counterweight?

Are both of these ideas correct?

ddub

If you're getting the aftermarket RB flywheel, order the one for S5 TII's that will come with the correct counterweight you need and match your front s5 counterweight.

OR if for some reason you wanted to get the s4 TII flywheel from RB, then yes you'd have to replace the front counterweight with an s4 one.

Just get the aftermarket S5 TII flywheel with S5 counterweight, it'll make your life easier.


Yes.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

IF you have an s5 engine (t2 or na) you MUST keep the s5 counterweights, front and rear. The weights balance the rotors. The flywheel is it's own counterweight, the front one gets left alone at all times. IF you want to go aftermarket with the flywheel, then you must get an automatic rear ctwt which is seperate from the flywheel...then the aftermarket flywheel bolts to that. The rear ctwt needs to be from an 89-95 automatic in that case.

IF you want a stock turbo flywheel to fit, then get either an s5 t2 which is ctwt'd properly and weighs around 22lb, or get a stock FD flywheel which is also ctwt'd properly (FD and s5 stuff weighs the same, and is balanced the same, btw) and weighs 20lb. Either of these is a direct bolt on to your s5 engine to run a turbo drivetrain.

All rotary manual trannies bolt to all rotary engines. 87-91 turbo clutches are all the same. You can run an s4 or s5 drivetrain from there back, there is VERY little difference in them (internal) and theyre outwardly identical as far as fitment.

You have to swap everything from the flywheel to the axles, including slave cylidner, starter, etc.

IF anyone is interested I happen to have a t2 drivetrain for sale. Everything from the flywheel to the rearend...I don't have the axles, though, so youll have to buy that on your own. I can go 400 for the parts, and you pay the truck freight shipping cost when it gets to you, around $80-150 depending on location.

ddub

^^^

Ah **** the rotors, I forgot Thank you for being the first person to remember that, I feel stupid now.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

BTW, you people talking about aftermarket flywheels. There are only 2 made by any one company...the small nonturbo version, and the large turbo version. None of them bolt directly to the engine like the stocker...they all require the use of the automatic counterweight.

The reason is that though all rotaries use these 2 diameters, there are about 10 different counterbalances for them. Instead of making 10 versions of flywheel, they make 2, and let you buy the appropriate counterweight from mazda (or theyll sell it to you).

There is no s4 t2 and s5 t2 aftermarket flywheel. There is only 87-95 turbo, or 84-91 nonturbo.

flamin-roids

I was referring to stock flywheels. The flywheel that is in my car came out of a 10 second FD. It bolts right to the counterwieght and you will not be able to bolt an aftermarket flywheel without a counter wieght. S4 auto for S4's and S5 auto for S5's. All S5 and FD rotors wiegh the same. And the '86-'88 rotors are heavier. That is the reason for the use of different counter wieghts. If you wanted to bolt a stock S5 TII flywheel instead that would work also.

bigdv519

iTrader: (3)

Ok, so I think this is right. Im going to get a S5 auto rear counterweight. My aftermarket flywheel WILL bolt to this. Then I CAN get a, 87 TII aftermarket clutch kit. I think confirming the clutch is my last question. Thanks a bunch guys, totallimmortal, dDuB, flamin-roids, and Kevin. You guys have really helped me out.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

87-91 t2 clutches are the same. Everything from there back all fits the same, even though there are minor trans/rearend differences between s4 and s5, internally, these parts can be mixed and matched.

bigdv519

iTrader: (3)

MAN!!! Thanks for the quick response, how much are your engines again???

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

www.rotaryresurrection.com ---> prices

bigdv519

iTrader: (3)

Im measuring twice before I cut, so here goes the setup.

90 NA Engine -> S5 NA Counterweight -> RB Turbo Flywheel -> ACT Turbo Clutch -> 87 TII Tranny

Thanks a bunch again guys.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

sounds right to me.