S4 Front Lip
02-10-14, 10:02 PM
#1
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: In
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
S4 Front Lip
So in a few weeks I will be making my own fiberglass front lip for my S4 Vert. It'll be about 2" deep with a slight rake on it. I was wondering if any other S4 owners out there would maybe like one built if mine comes out good? I'll post a mock up on here in a few.
02-10-14, 10:31 PM
#3
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: In
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sadly it's only about 4 degrees here in Indiana and I'll be in Colorado for the next week or so, so I can't start working on it till I get back. But just for mock up/to get an idea how it would look here are a few photos I took. Keep in mind this is a mock up, not a finished product.
02-11-14, 12:10 AM
#5
Rx Bandit
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fort St John, BC, Canada
Posts: 232
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
garage door lips are the cheapest cheeziest looking things in real life ha ha..
in pictures they always seem to clean them up and find an angle where they look ok, but once you lay your own 2 eyes on one it is immediately obvious that it's unfinished soft rubber. they get sun bleached, they pick up crap from the road all the time, they sag from their mounting points on hot days..
it is very unfortunate that there are almost no options for abs plastic or polyurethane lips for our cars. i have a painted poly lip for my daily driver subaru and the thing looks great and is borderline indestructable even after 4 years.
my fc has had a painted fiberglass corksport s4 lip for the past couple years, and that has looked pretty good but has it's drawbacks as well. damn thing breaks any time it touches anything. i'll be kitted this time around when i get her back together, so i hope things will be a little more solid
i might be convinced to throw a garage door lip on a super low beater car that scrapes on everything, but even then, i dunno.
-sean
in pictures they always seem to clean them up and find an angle where they look ok, but once you lay your own 2 eyes on one it is immediately obvious that it's unfinished soft rubber. they get sun bleached, they pick up crap from the road all the time, they sag from their mounting points on hot days..
it is very unfortunate that there are almost no options for abs plastic or polyurethane lips for our cars. i have a painted poly lip for my daily driver subaru and the thing looks great and is borderline indestructable even after 4 years.
my fc has had a painted fiberglass corksport s4 lip for the past couple years, and that has looked pretty good but has it's drawbacks as well. damn thing breaks any time it touches anything. i'll be kitted this time around when i get her back together, so i hope things will be a little more solid
i might be convinced to throw a garage door lip on a super low beater car that scrapes on everything, but even then, i dunno.
-sean
02-11-14, 08:01 AM
#6
you will get 20 people interested, of that you will be lucky to get 4-5 buyers
FC guys really dont want to pay more than 175-200 shipped, factor in $25-$50 in shipping costs per unit. You need to keep the shipping box under 2" otherwise the costs just about double when you go to a 3"+ box
FC guys really dont want to pay more than 175-200 shipped, factor in $25-$50 in shipping costs per unit. You need to keep the shipping box under 2" otherwise the costs just about double when you go to a 3"+ box
02-11-14, 08:27 AM
#7
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: In
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yea I'm not the biggest fan of garage door lips and I want to start my own shop after I finish college anyway so I'm trying to find out what I can make in shop because I'm pretty good with my hands. And Rob I was only planning maybe 100-125+shipping. Money isn't a big thing for me, I just like to help the community/scene (and it sucks where I live).
Trending Topics
02-11-14, 08:32 AM
#8
Yea I'm not the biggest fan of garage door lips and I want to start my own shop after I finish college anyway so I'm trying to find out what I can make in shop because I'm pretty good with my hands. And Rob I was only planning maybe 100-125+shipping. Money isn't a big thing for me, I just like to help the community/scene (and it sucks where I live).
realistic costs per unit would be about $35-$45 in materials
Cost to make a plug and mold will be at least $250 in materials
boxes for each lip $10-$25 unless you will just wrap them in paper and hope they make it
Start to finish for each piece is a little over an hour, plus time to wrap and ship.
just take all this into consideration- Ive been there and done that
02-11-14, 09:42 AM
#9
Your abilities as a craftsman will take a distant back seat to your acumen as a businessman.
I would suggest that you stop looking for interest and just make five copies of the lip.
Don't talk about it, ask for input or tease the product...just make it.
It's a completely different process when you make multiples of an item opposed to a one off. Post-mold finishing and TLC is fine when you make one part for yourself but really slows down a "production" run.
Now you know what it takes to make (what you hope is) a consumer grade product, something you'd be proud to offer to your community.
The second step is to market and deliver the product and then to deal with consumer feedback.
This is a whole separate part of the process and the time spent/supplies required must be accounted for.
Assume from the outset that this whole endeavor is just R&D and you probably won't recoup your expenses, just breaking even would be considered a success and even that is unlikely.
It's the cost of your education.
I think you'll find that administrative/business aspects at least equal, if not overshadow, the fun, get your hands dirty making ****, part.
And money makes it all possible, so you'd better start caring about it.
02-11-14, 10:34 AM
#10
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: In
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for all of the info guys. I'm really avid about starting this thing. And I care about money but I'm not trying to get rich, just pay for materials to make and sell the product. Make some profit here and there for now since I'm still in school. So it's really about getting the business out there and atleast a foot in the door before I graduate. And I like the idea of the 5 run. That seems like a really good idea, so I have a few ready to ship instead of made to order. Thanks guys.
02-11-14, 10:57 AM
#11
MECP Certified Installer
This is my suggestion on the whole shop thing...
First off, you need to know how to run a business. Second, you need to know vehicles like the back of your hand.
I went to college for automotive and learned a lot there. I always wanted to have my own shop and had these large and grandiose aspirations. I became an MECP certified installer and started working in the field. I realized and learned that going to school is great and all, but doesn't mean **** if you don't have hands on experience.
With that said, I have been doing this for 6 years now. I have worked at the same place and same shop. Where I work you are pretty much tasked to run the shop and your going to have some 'splaining to do when you aren't running your business right. After 6 years in the field, I have gained monumental amounts of experience and have practically worked on any vehicle that doesn't cost more than $150k.
My point to all of that is, it is cool to have big dreams and go after them, but be realistic and get your hands dirty before you put your own financials at stake.
First off, you need to know how to run a business. Second, you need to know vehicles like the back of your hand.
I went to college for automotive and learned a lot there. I always wanted to have my own shop and had these large and grandiose aspirations. I became an MECP certified installer and started working in the field. I realized and learned that going to school is great and all, but doesn't mean **** if you don't have hands on experience.
With that said, I have been doing this for 6 years now. I have worked at the same place and same shop. Where I work you are pretty much tasked to run the shop and your going to have some 'splaining to do when you aren't running your business right. After 6 years in the field, I have gained monumental amounts of experience and have practically worked on any vehicle that doesn't cost more than $150k.
My point to all of that is, it is cool to have big dreams and go after them, but be realistic and get your hands dirty before you put your own financials at stake.
02-11-14, 11:35 AM
#12
you have to charge correctly from the start.
Lets put it this way- you bring these to market @ $125, no profit is being made, later you raise the price to $175 to make $50- people will not like the price increase.
"but you sold my buddy Jim one for $125 why is i $175 now?"
"I need to make a profit"
not a good conversation. Make a nice product and charge accordingly from the start, run a group buy for a special price.
Lets put it this way- you bring these to market @ $125, no profit is being made, later you raise the price to $175 to make $50- people will not like the price increase.
"but you sold my buddy Jim one for $125 why is i $175 now?"
"I need to make a profit"
not a good conversation. Make a nice product and charge accordingly from the start, run a group buy for a special price.
02-11-14, 04:04 PM
#13
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: In
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is my suggestion on the whole shop thing...
First off, you need to know how to run a business. Second, you need to know vehicles like the back of your hand.
I went to college for automotive and learned a lot there. I always wanted to have my own shop and had these large and grandiose aspirations. I became an MECP certified installer and started working in the field. I realized and learned that going to school is great and all, but doesn't mean **** if you don't have hands on experience.
With that said, I have been doing this for 6 years now. I have worked at the same place and same shop. Where I work you are pretty much tasked to run the shop and your going to have some 'splaining to do when you aren't running your business right. After 6 years in the field, I have gained monumental amounts of experience and have practically worked on any vehicle that doesn't cost more than $150k.
My point to all of that is, it is cool to have big dreams and go after them, but be realistic and get your hands dirty before you put your own financials at stake.
First off, you need to know how to run a business. Second, you need to know vehicles like the back of your hand.
I went to college for automotive and learned a lot there. I always wanted to have my own shop and had these large and grandiose aspirations. I became an MECP certified installer and started working in the field. I realized and learned that going to school is great and all, but doesn't mean **** if you don't have hands on experience.
With that said, I have been doing this for 6 years now. I have worked at the same place and same shop. Where I work you are pretty much tasked to run the shop and your going to have some 'splaining to do when you aren't running your business right. After 6 years in the field, I have gained monumental amounts of experience and have practically worked on any vehicle that doesn't cost more than $150k.
My point to all of that is, it is cool to have big dreams and go after them, but be realistic and get your hands dirty before you put your own financials at stake.
02-11-14, 06:51 PM
#15
MECP Certified Installer
You aren't running a charity. Set the price with a good margin for your time, and as you get faster, your time decreases but your margin increases.
For example...
I charge $80 an hour. I charge a base price for the work between maximum time to complete and minimum time to complete. If I have a job that takes 1 hour but could take four hours, I charge 2 hours labor.
It could take longer, or I could get it done in 30 minutes, and the goal is to be at a happy medium between time and margin. Granted, if I am well versed with the car I am working on, I charge exact time, but for the ones I don't, I charge an average labor rate. Sometimes you lose and sometimes you win.
The best place to get an average for a job is alldata.
02-11-14, 10:03 PM
#16
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: In
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmm alright so let's say 180 shipped. Would you guys think that's a good price? Considering that there's only a few one off s4 lips in the world besides the finish line ultra-rare aero.
Also I already have made an actual Fc stock spec shift boot, I hand make them and they are made to order with either a woven cloth (like mine) or whatever you send me.
Also I already have made an actual Fc stock spec shift boot, I hand make them and they are made to order with either a woven cloth (like mine) or whatever you send me.
02-12-14, 06:58 AM
#18
most s5 lips will fit an s4 bumper, it just requires some fiddling to get right, the thought of having to do something so difficult as drill their own holes boggles some people's minds
factor in the paper thin fenders that flex in and out really easy connected to a thin radiator support panel and you can see why its tough to make a rigid piece line up with a 25 year old car.
there is a reason I cant be bothered anymore.
factor in the paper thin fenders that flex in and out really easy connected to a thin radiator support panel and you can see why its tough to make a rigid piece line up with a 25 year old car.
there is a reason I cant be bothered anymore.
02-12-14, 09:13 AM
#19
Rob raises an excellent point.
After you've lovingly crafted the part, intelligently priced and marketed it and finally, successfully sold it...what do you do when the customer is unhappy or the part is damaged in transit?
Whatever strategy you decide on, the cost of implementing it must be folded into the final price of the product.
This is why I keep harping about pricing...I don't think you have a grip on it yet.
You seem to think that material cost and your labor are the biggest factors determining sale price but I would suggest that they are actually less than 50% of the costs you really incur.
As an exercise, do this:
Imagine a completely bare space- your workshop (which will be cost #1)- and then write down every step required to produce your product. The more absurdly detailed, the better.
Did you put pen to paper to work on the design? Where did they come from? That's right, you BOUGHT them! There's cost #2, BTW.
And it goes on forever.
If you haven't the patience to really get into an analysis like that, go to work for someone who does.
Because they are the people who will survive long enough to possibly prosper.
You could be the bloody Michelangelo of fiberglass and it wouldn't matter one whit towards success if you're crippled /overwhelmed by "business" concerns.
So, I think you should reevaluate your approach.
Go ahead, make your lip...but just one (or two you so have a spare and can pick the best one).
Then make a spoiler or a center console or whatever strikes your fancy, all the while refining your techniques and processes.
Then market yourself, not a specific product.
Sell your creativity, talent and experience, which can be applied to ANY car- unlike a specialty item, say, the lip.
When you concentrate on a specialty car, you dive into a very shallow pool.
After you've lovingly crafted the part, intelligently priced and marketed it and finally, successfully sold it...what do you do when the customer is unhappy or the part is damaged in transit?
Whatever strategy you decide on, the cost of implementing it must be folded into the final price of the product.
This is why I keep harping about pricing...I don't think you have a grip on it yet.
You seem to think that material cost and your labor are the biggest factors determining sale price but I would suggest that they are actually less than 50% of the costs you really incur.
As an exercise, do this:
Imagine a completely bare space- your workshop (which will be cost #1)- and then write down every step required to produce your product. The more absurdly detailed, the better.
Did you put pen to paper to work on the design? Where did they come from? That's right, you BOUGHT them! There's cost #2, BTW.
And it goes on forever.
If you haven't the patience to really get into an analysis like that, go to work for someone who does.
Because they are the people who will survive long enough to possibly prosper.
You could be the bloody Michelangelo of fiberglass and it wouldn't matter one whit towards success if you're crippled /overwhelmed by "business" concerns.
So, I think you should reevaluate your approach.
Go ahead, make your lip...but just one (or two you so have a spare and can pick the best one).
Then make a spoiler or a center console or whatever strikes your fancy, all the while refining your techniques and processes.
Then market yourself, not a specific product.
Sell your creativity, talent and experience, which can be applied to ANY car- unlike a specialty item, say, the lip.
When you concentrate on a specialty car, you dive into a very shallow pool.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post